[ClothSeats]

Originally Posted by ConR

I think it's the other way around. I think RS drivers will look at M2s and say "there's another badge snob".

I'd hope they would be more open-minded than that. There are people who buy BMW because, you know, they like the car.

[Jadar]

Originally Posted by redux

Some of those are valid points. But you are missing the most important factor:

Driving a high strung stiffly sprung economy car on a daily basis become can rather grating when you are over the age of 30.


If I only had room for one car in my driveway, the M2 would be the one filling the spot.

This is exactly how I feel, and pretty much any mature male @34 just saying. Not that the RS isnt tempting.

[Japper69]

Originally Posted by Adem1534

Americans are just as capable as any other. It has nothing to do with the fact of where it's designed

Keep telling yourself this and you may believe it one day 😄

[OrangeCrush]

Originally Posted by Japper69

Keep telling yourself this and you may believe it one day 😄

GT350 > M235i

[Japper69]

Originally Posted by OrangeCrush

GT350 > M235i

What, a car that has just been engineered for independent rear suspension.

Very advanced, bring out the celebrations.

Oh, and it looks like crud inside and out IMHO 😬

[Adem1534]

Originally Posted by Japper69

Keep telling yourself this and you may believe it one day ��

I mean, I work for one of the largest, if not the largest engineering contractors in the world, and guess what, it's American.

[Japper69]

Originally Posted by Adem1534

I mean, I work for one of the largest, if not the largest engineering contractors in the world, and guess what, it's American.

Of course it's the largest, it's American 🙄

Back on topic, please tell me in truth that european cars as a whole are not superior in design / engineering to American.

[Spook410]

Originally Posted by Japper69

Of course it's the largest, it's American ��

Back on topic, please tell me in truth that european cars as a whole are not superior in design / engineering to American.

It's nice that you like European vehicles but it's a bit more complex than that.. and getting blurred more each model year.

Japanese cars appear to lead in most areas if you want to believe what objective metrics are available. German cars have a terrible reputation for reliability which is design/engineering and while that's improving statistically, the VW scandals haven't helped their credibility much. Accountants still run US car companies and it shows. Still, we've seen great strides particularly in performance cars. (although you still can't see out of a Camaro.. sigh) Computer aided design has been such a boon along with assembly automation. Makes it kind of hard to apply nationalism to vehicle design and production.

As for the Mustang GT350, you are in a very small minority not liking them inside or out. It's still quite difficult to acquire one.

[Bluenose-2er]

Originally Posted by dd1981

This is exactly how I feel, and pretty much any mature male @34 just saying. Not that the RS isnt tempting.

Back when I bought my 135i I was also considering a WRX STi, but noticed that most of those drivers were in their 20s. Likely same for the Focus RS - a tempting car, but a hot hatch is not the image I want.

Sorry, I am too self conscious to just think about the drive

Of course, if BMW puts me off with their supply chain manipulations this limits my other options!

[Jadar]

Originally Posted by Bluenose-1er

Back when I bought my 135i I was also considering a WRX STi, but noticed that most of those drivers were in their 20s. Likely same for the Focus RS - a tempting car, but a hot hatch is not the image I want.

Sorry, I am too self conscious to just think about the drive

Of course, if BMW puts me off with their supply chain manipulations this limits my other options!

I totally understand. All I can picture is myself pulling up to a nice steak house with my wife on date night in Chicago in a hot hatch in a suit lmao and thinking how ridiculous it would appear. I just can't do it man.

Funny how life changes views and tastes as you get older.

To me it goes beyond a badge whoring perspective because it's not even about that. Plenty of Ford's I'd rock to dinner, heck even a Taurus SHO as numb as it is to drive but it just fits more with my tastes and age level I think.

[Adem1534]

Originally Posted by Japper69

Of course it's the largest, it's American 🙄

It's also the most successful, but sure, act like a child

[Stunnerable]

Oh boy! Here we go again.

First, I am in the RS or M2 decision boat. The Fiesta ST is one of the most enjoyable cars I've ever driven and if the RS has even a fraction of that enjoyment, it's going to be a great car!

But that's not what I'm responding about. There are some (forum typical) back and forth debates going on in here about equating which car is better based on arbitrary lap times. Also a bit of BMW trolling that I've grown accustomed to through the years. I'd like to address both of these.

Let's talk about Ring times. Actually, let's not! I find forums are filled with 2 "major" different types of people. (Specifically car forums) The first one is the most common type; the car guys. Girls too. lol These people are typically obsessed with the raw data on cars and to them; faster, quicker, lighter, (whatever fits into their idea of "better") simply equates to a better car. I.e. Car A is 2 10ths faster than car B in the quarter and is also $12k cheaper so car A is better. Nanny nanny boo boo! The ironic thing about these people is most of them are convinced they are "drivers". They aren't.

Which brings us to the second aforementioned "type" in the car forums: the driving enthusiast. These people are the vast minority within the car culture. They like cars as a default due to their love of driving. They could care less which car is faster than which. In reality, it has very little to do with what makes a car a joyous experience behind the wheel. And therein lies the great divide between these two car enthusiast types. One is about numbers and the other is about the organic driving experience. That's why these people "get" a car like the MX-5. It's driving nirvana.

As for general BMW (or in this case M2) bashing; it's absolutely ridiculous. For me personally, I just enjoy the brand. Yes there are faster options out there and for a lot less money too. But as an experience, there is something about BMW that has me coming back time and time again. It makes me happy. The M2 looks like it might be just what I'm looking for. Be nice if it had plain old fashioned hydraulic steering like the M3's of yore, but beggars can't be choosers. lol

Bringing it back to the OP's original post, I do think there is a big appeal to both of these cars. As a 35 year old father of two little ones, I am genuinely torn between the two. The RS has year round, 4 door, hatch practicality to it. It's also cheaper and it is a "fast" car that looks like it could also be a fun car. On the other hand, it's not particularly good looking. It's not at all a sexy car.. at least as far as I'm concerned. I find RWD more fun and tactile when being driven spiritedly. My brain is saying RS and my heart is saying M2. So I guess I'm going to have to get the M2 then. Buying a performance car should be about heart and emotions should it not? We're not buying fleet vehicles for a rental business here after all.

Okay, that was a lot longer than I thought it was going to be. But it's Sunday afternoon and I've had a nice tall glass of scotch and water. Anyway, that's my $.02.

Buy whatever blows your hair back guys.

[Japper69]

Originally Posted by Adem1534

It's also the most successful, but sure, act like a child

Lol, i'm not the big kid with his photo next to his girlfriend❤️

[auf Deutsch]

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...rs-test-review

13.4 @ 105....M2 is in a whole other league.

[fcman]

Originally Posted by auf Deutsch

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...rs-test-review

13.4 @ 105....M2 is in a whole other league.

LOL, who buys these cars to race? Especially to drag race. Irrelevant numbers for bench racers and 2 fast 2 furious highschoolers

[auf Deutsch]

Originally Posted by fcman

LOL, who buys these cars to race? Especially to drag race. Irrelevant numbers for bench racers and 2 fast 2 furious highschoolers

LOL, trap speed is the single best indicator of real world speed capabilities. I posted the RS's numbers not to focus on what it can do in a 1/4 drag race, but rather to compare its performance numbers to the M2. Per C&D, the M2 traps 8 mph faster which is huge.

[fcman]

Originally Posted by auf Deutsch

LOL, trap speed is the single best indicator of real world speed capabilities. I posted the RS's numbers not to focus on what it can do in a 1/4 drag race, but rather to compare its performance numbers to the M2. Per C&D, the M2 traps 8 mph faster which is huge.

Real world speed capabilities? Again, how is that relevant at all? How often are you going to be actually racing an M2 against a Focus RS? Never. Both cars are faster than can be fully (and safely) exploited on the road, and on the track you aren't ever going to be racing. If you're worried about numbers and street/bench racing, neither of these cars are for you. Or are you planning on starting up some kind of showroom stock professional racing series.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by fcman

Real world speed capabilities? Again, how is that relevant at all? How often are you going to be actually racing an M2 against a Focus RS? Never. Both cars are faster than can be fully (and safely) exploited on the road, and on the track you aren't ever going to be racing. If you're worried about numbers and street/bench racing, neither of these cars are for you. Or are you planning on starting up some kind of showroom stock professional racing series.

Does autocross count ?

[Namloc]

Originally Posted by Stunnerable

Oh boy! Here we go again.

First, I am in the RS or M2 decision boat. The Fiesta ST is one of the most enjoyable cars I've ever driven and if the RS has even a fraction of that enjoyment, it's going to be a great car!

But that's not what I'm responding about. There are some (forum typical) back and forth debates going on in here about equating which car is better based on arbitrary lap times. Also a bit of BMW trolling that I've grown accustomed to through the years. I'd like to address both of these.

Let's talk about Ring times. Actually, let's not! I find forums are filled with 2 "major" different types of people. (Specifically car forums) The first one is the most common type; the car guys. Girls too. lol These people are typically obsessed with the raw data on cars and to them; faster, quicker, lighter, (whatever fits into their idea of "better") simply equates to a better car. I.e. Car A is 2 10ths faster than car B in the quarter and is also $12k cheaper so car A is better. Nanny nanny boo boo! The ironic thing about these people is most of them are convinced they are "drivers". They aren't.

Which brings us to the second aforementioned "type" in the car forums: the driving enthusiast. These people are the vast minority within the car culture. They like cars as a default due to their love of driving. They could care less which car is faster than which. In reality, it has very little to do with what makes a car a joyous experience behind the wheel. And therein lies the great divide between these two car enthusiast types. One is about numbers and the other is about the organic driving experience. That's why these people "get" a car like the MX-5. It's driving nirvana.

As for general BMW (or in this case M2) bashing; it's absolutely ridiculous. For me personally, I just enjoy the brand. Yes there are faster options out there and for a lot less money too. But as an experience, there is something about BMW that has me coming back time and time again. It makes me happy. The M2 looks like it might be just what I'm looking for. Be nice if it had plain old fashioned hydraulic steering like the M3's of yore, but beggars can't be choosers. lol

Bringing it back to the OP's original post, I do think there is a big appeal to both of these cars. As a 35 year old father of two little ones, I am genuinely torn between the two. The RS has year round, 4 door, hatch practicality to it. It's also cheaper and it is a "fast" car that looks like it could also be a fun car. On the other hand, it's not particularly good looking. It's not at all a sexy car.. at least as far as I'm concerned. I find RWD more fun and tactile when being driven spiritedly. My brain is saying RS and my heart is saying M2. So I guess I'm going to have to get the M2 then. Buying a performance car should be about heart and emotions should it not? We're not buying fleet vehicles for a rental business here after all.

Okay, that was a lot longer than I thought it was going to be. But it's Sunday afternoon and I've had a nice tall glass of scotch and water. Anyway, that's my $.02.

Buy whatever blows your hair back guys.

Totally agree with the sentiment but in my case I couldn't split the two cars based on my criteria of driving enjoyment and connection with the road.

So I have ordered one of each and will decide which to keep after a month of real world driving comparison.

[AWM235i]

Im 31 with no kids, but even still the RS hatch is something I may have been interested in when I was a teen. A gti can be juvenile with stickers all over windows and lowered to the ground with terrible camber like I see around here. Like others have said, its not always that german cars are more tasteful, its how they are modded and the overall character the car has. Im more into clean lines and oem look to my cars I've had. A car is a good way at showing our personality. I know there are people who are badge snobs....but I def do not fall into that camp. I like quality and enjoy all the little details that mostly german/euro cars have. Im aware american cars have quality and can be euro designed, but I still don't care for them. There is def an image that is portrayed with diff cars it seems. Just for fun....camaro is like a michael bay movie/transformer, mustang to me is generic, corvette is midlife crisis/older driver with gold chains lol. Everything is opinion

[neckthrough]

Originally Posted by Stunnerable

As a 35 year old father of two little ones, I am genuinely torn between the two. The RS has year round, 4 door, hatch practicality to it. It's also cheaper and it is a "fast" car that looks like it could also be a fun car. On the other hand, it's not particularly good looking. It's not at all a sexy car.. at least as far as I'm concerned. I find RWD more fun and tactile when being driven spiritedly. My brain is saying RS and my heart is saying M2. So I guess I'm going to have to get the M2 then. Buying a performance car should be about heart and emotions should it not? We're not buying fleet vehicles for a rental business here after all.

Totally agree with everything you said. The 4-door practicality of the RS is incredibly useful for us parents. But I too find the RS repulsive to look at, and I want an RWD as well.

[as7920]

I've driven both the M2 and RS, and the RS surprised me the most.
And in the limited time I had, I preferred the experience in the RS.
The M2 was DCT and I think that diluted the test drive for me.

I expect if I had the option I would go with the M2 with manual over all 3 but I was very impressed with the RS and considering the price differential over here £15k spec for spec then the RS is incredible and well done Ford.