[doug_999]

Originally Posted by chris719

Since when is some intern or whatever schmuck wrote that non-answer (at a single battery charger vendor) an authority on anything?

I don’t know what part of my factual statements you have problems with. Perhaps you can do more than 5 seconds of copy paste from a poorly informed webpage before concluding I’m wrong. Maybe you should measure the peak charging voltage of a BMW AGM battery and get back to me.

hmmm, are you calling Ctek's website crappy?

Because www.smartcharger.com is the website for Ctek and that is where my post came from. I'm sorry you feel it is poorly informed - maybe you should reach out to them? Wait, don't they make the charger? Maybe you should switch chargers if you feel they are poorly informed?

I'm still laughing at this whole thing.

[chris719]

Originally Posted by doug_999

hmmm, are you calling Ctek's website crappy?

Because www.smartcharger.com is the website for Ctek and that is where my post came from. I'm sorry you feel it is poorly informed - maybe you should reach out to them? Wait, don't they make the charger? Maybe you should switch chargers if you feel they are poorly informed?

I'm still laughing at this whole thing.

I don't understand what you don't get about this. Every single post of yours on this topic is the textbook logical fallacy called Argument from Authority. Just because Ctek makes chargers does not mean whoever wrote the answer to that question on their website is qualified to answer the question. It's also a cover-our-ass type answer.

You know, the current flat plate style AGM batteries have existed since the mid 1970s. I think there are some people that might understand them.

Got any facts? Or more "butbutbut the website said" bs. You're safe to charge any automotive AGM battery that fits in your BMW at 14.7V max, which is the AGM mode of the Ctek.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by doug_999

hmmm, are you calling Ctek's website crappy?

Because www.smartcharger.com is the website for Ctek and that is where my post came from. I'm sorry you feel it is poorly informed - maybe you should reach out to them? Wait, don't they make the charger? Maybe you should switch chargers if you feel they are poorly informed?

I'm still laughing at this whole thing.

The BMW M tech at my dealer also confirmed they use ~13V for lithium, and ~14-15V for all lead acid AGM batteries.

You do realize ctek can't make a guide for all batteries right? They just mentioned a few AGM exceptions that shouldn't be used with snowflake mode, I don't know how you got BMW as one of those. Otherwise snowflake mode is the only one sufficient for trickle charging any AGM battery, the other modes will under charge it or over charge it. So I'm not sure what you would have used.

Plus ctek makes the oem BMW part for their battery chargers with snow flake mode, that should be the final straw in saying it's safe to use.

[chris719]

Originally Posted by F87source

The BMW M tech at my dealer also confirmed they use ~13V for lithium, and ~14-15V for all lead acid AGM batteries.

You do realize ctek can't make a guide for all batteries right? They just mentioned a few AGM exceptions that shouldn't be used with snowflake mode, I don't know how you got BMW as one of those. Otherwise snowflake mode is the only one sufficient for trickle charging any AGM battery, the other modes will under charge it or over charge it. So I'm not sure what you would have used.

Plus ctek makes the oem BMW part for their battery chargers with snow flake mode, that should be the final straw in saying it's safe to use.

Are you quoting the wrong person? Cause we are in complete agreement, doug_999 is not

[F87source]

Originally Posted by chris719

Are you quoting the wrong person? Cause we are in complete agreement, doug_999 is not

whoops my bad, I read your quote about doug_999's post and clicked the wrong one lol.

There we go I fixed it

[bplewis24]

Originally Posted by F87source

Wait really? That's kind of weird and concerning, but I read through the ctek manual and there was no mention of that except snow flake mode was specifically for AGM batteries and cold conditions.

FWIW, I just purchased a Ctek and did a lot of research about modes, and what I found from Ctek was that you were supposed to use Snowflake mode for "Power AGM" batteries, with examples of Odyssey and some other company given.

I actually disconnected my 335i battery before using the Ctek to see who the manufacturer was, just to make sure.

Originally Posted by chris719

All automotive AGM batteries are basically the same, and there are only a handful of manufacturers in the world. I think most BMW AGM batteries are mfg by Varta or Exide. Johnson Controls, Exide, and East Penn (Deka) make almost all the AGM batteries out there. There are some higher end batteries like Odyssey and Northstar which are a bit closer to a deep cycle design, but the fundamental chemistry is identical.

^^^
Yup, those "higher end" manufacturers are likely the ones Ctek is referring to for Snowflake mode.

[chris719]

Originally Posted by bplewis24

FWIW, I just purchased a Ctek and did a lot of research about modes, and what I found from Ctek was that you were supposed to use Snowflake mode for "Power AGM" batteries, with examples of Odyssey and some other company given.

I actually disconnected my 335i battery before using the Ctek to see who the manufacturer was, just to make sure.



^^^
Yup, those "higher end" manufacturers are likely the ones Ctek is referring to for Snowflake mode.

I know, those are the pure lead plate batteries. I would still use the snowflake for all AGM unless it's really hot. 14.7V will be safe for a Johnson Controls / Exide / East-Penn / Varta AGM battery. Not the end of the world either way.

[doug_999]

Originally Posted by F87source

....

You do realize ctek can't make a guide for all batteries right? They just mentioned a few AGM exceptions that shouldn't be used with snowflake mode, I don't know how you got BMW as one of those.

They mention the AGM batteries that SHOULD be used with the snowflake mode.

The quote is "It depends. Optima and Hawker recommend snowflake mode. If there is no indication on the battery, use car mode for batteries over 14Ah or "MC mode for batteries under 14Ah."

The real question is what do they mean by "indication" ?

[bplewis24]

Just to provide a source for what I found, this was in the manual of the product I purchased (Ctek 4.3):

Cold weather program
14.7V/4.3A . Use for charging at low temperatures and for
power AGM batteries like Optima and Odyssey.

Take that for what its worth.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by F87source

+1
whoops I see in my earlier post I put 13.7V, yes it's supposed to be 14.7V for a full charge on an AGM. Which is another reason why snowflake mode is the only compatible mode imo.

The ctek manual that came with my mus7002 mentioned this under snow flake mode (copied directly from the PDF - "Mode 14.7V - This setting is recommended for a battery at temperatures
< 41°F. It is also recommended for many AGM batteries like Optima, and
Odysseys. Consult your battery manufacturer when in doubt"

So yeah for sure it will work with AGM, and the OEM charger bmw sells is a relabeled Ctek with snowflake mode too, so it should work without issue.

Originally Posted by bplewis24

Just to provide a source for what I found, this was in the manual of the product I purchased (Ctek 4.3):



Take that for what its worth.

Already quoted that too but Doug ignored it... It's becoming pointless now so he can use whatever he wants. I've already confirmed with my BMW M tech and he said charge the BMW battery with AGM mode aka 14.7V.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by doug_999

They mention the AGM batteries that SHOULD be used with the snowflake mode.

The quote is "It depends. Optima and Hawker recommend snowflake mode. If there is no indication on the battery, use car mode for batteries over 14Ah or "MC mode for batteries under 14Ah."

The real question is what do they mean by "indication" ?

If the battery doesn't specify it's composition like lead acid (AGM) or whatever, then go by capacity. If it does then use what would be recommended for that battery lead acid (AGM) use the AGM mode aka snow flake mode.

[chris719]

Originally Posted by doug_999

They mention the AGM batteries that SHOULD be used with the snowflake mode.

The quote is "It depends. Optima and Hawker recommend snowflake mode. If there is no indication on the battery, use car mode for batteries over 14Ah or "MC mode for batteries under 14Ah."

The real question is what do they mean by "indication" ?

You need to look at the battery specs. It's pretty simple, if the battery is okay with 14.7V or greater in the acceptance phase of the charge then it should be used with the snowflake mode. Almost every AGM should be fine with the snowflake mode. I have used it without issues on aftermarket JCI and Penn AGM batteries. I am not sure if the Ctek is temperature compensated - if it is not, then you should not use the AGM snowflake mode when the battery or ambient temperature is high.

In reality, the differences between the two modes are small. You won't make an AGM battery explode (or sulfate, on the other side) in the wrong mode. It's not like the desulfation / reconditioning mode that applies a much higher voltage.

[doug_999]

Originally Posted by F87source

Already quoted that too but Doug ignored it... It's becoming pointless now so he can use whatever he wants. I've already confirmed with my BMW M tech and he said charge the BMW battery with AGM mode aka 14.7V.

I'm still laughing.... cause...

What he quoted is similar to the FAQ I posted from Ctek's website...

...and when you are taking advice from a "BMW M tech" that's funny too (I guess you have not been around on the boards very long to hear some of the malarkey some of them preach - like how they "unlock" your car after the 1,200 mile service). Do note, that there are plenty of them that know what they are preaching, and plenty that don't (so not making your guy/gal out to be uniformed, just pointing out that they might not be the right source).

Anyway, let's clarify a couple of things...
1. Neither my M3 or my 1M has an AGM battery. So I won't be using the snowflake mode on either car (heck, I don't think my Lithium Ctek charger has any modes....)
2. I'm simply pointing out what Ctek says from their FAQ. While I don't know who writes for them and I'm not sure I agree that an intern or a schmuck wrote it, but I do know it was from Ctek.

The funny part is that you and Chris are getting all upset when it is probably best that you email or contact Ctek on the matter because I have continued to only point out what they print (or their intern writes on their "poorly informed webpage ").

So no need to get frustrated with me, I'm not the bad guy here

[chris719]

Originally Posted by doug_999

I'm still laughing.... cause...

What he quoted is similar to the FAQ I posted from Ctek's website...

...and when you are taking advice from a "BMW M tech" that's funny too (I guess you have not been around on the boards very long to hear some of the malarkey some of them preach - like how they "unlock" your car after the 1,200 mile service). Do note, that there are plenty of them that know what they are preaching, and plenty that don't (so not making your guy/gal out to be uniformed, just pointing out that they might not be the right source).

Anyway, let's clarify a couple of things...
1. Neither my M3 or my 1M has an AGM battery. So I won't be using the snowflake mode on either car (heck, I don't think my Lithium Ctek charger has any modes....)
2. I'm simply pointing out what Ctek says from their FAQ. While I don't know who writes for them and I'm not sure I agree that an intern or a schmuck wrote it, but I do know it was from Ctek.

The funny part is that you and Chris are getting all upset when it is probably best that you email or contact Ctek on the matter because I have continued to only point out what they print (or their intern writes on their "poorly informed webpage ").

So no need to get frustrated with me, I'm not the bad guy here

Ctek doesn’t make batteries. You choose the mode depending on if your battery can handle 14.7V charging. It does not matter what Ctek says or thinks. Your lack of reading comprehension is disturbing.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by doug_999

I'm still laughing.... cause...

What he quoted is similar to the FAQ I posted from Ctek's website...

...and when you are taking advice from a "BMW M tech" that's funny too (I guess you have not been around on the boards very long to hear some of the malarkey some of them preach - like how they "unlock" your car after the 1,200 mile service). Do note, that there are plenty of them that know what they are preaching, and plenty that don't (so not making your guy/gal out to be uniformed, just pointing out that they might not be the right source).

Anyway, let's clarify a couple of things...
1. Neither my M3 or my 1M has an AGM battery. So I won't be using the snowflake mode on either car (heck, I don't think my Lithium Ctek charger has any modes....)
2. I'm simply pointing out what Ctek says from their FAQ. While I don't know who writes for them and I'm not sure I agree that an intern or a schmuck wrote it, but I do know it was from Ctek.

The funny part is that you and Chris are getting all upset when it is probably best that you email or contact Ctek on the matter because I have continued to only point out what they print (or their intern writes on their "poorly informed webpage ").

So no need to get frustrated with me, I'm not the bad guy here

The thing is they didn't know, so they had to use the bmw diagnostic software/break down to check, I believe for us it's RHEINGOLD (ISTA D), but I have been around long enough on every board but this to know when someone is giving out wrong inaccurate advice that may screw someone else up in the future. For example charging directly to the battery which is a strict no no in the bmw manual. The 1m uses a 70AH 760A AGM lead acid battery from the factory aka an AGM battery, check for the Pb marker on the battery meaning lead. Here is the proof.... http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...diagId=61_1999
The only way you would not have an AGM battery is if you replaced it with an aftermarket lithium, or sulfate based battery which would require alot of coding... So there's another mistake you made, funny how you call me a "beginner or noobie"....

Yeah the lithium charger for the m3 should only have one mode, although I'm not sure, but yes the lithium batteries charge at a lower voltage (somewhere in the 13v range) like I said earlier, so yeah you can't use snowflake mode if it were present.

In the manual, which clearly overrides the FAQ section as that is mainly where manufacturers post email questions that pop up alot, and can be answered by any rep, says that the snowflake mode is recommended for AGM batteries. If you are not sure contact the battery maker, not CTEK as they really can't answer that question for you, and since the manual already stated that snowflake mode was for AGM batteries there wouldn't be much of a benefit to call.


The only reason why we are frustrated is because you keep pointing out false information, FAQ aren't a reliable source of info compared to an instruction manual which also refers to speaking with the battery maker, and in this case bmw.

[Proctor750]

Hey, I'm here to get upset about batteries.

Am I in the right place?

[chris719]

Originally Posted by Proctor750

Hey, I'm here to get upset about batteries.

Am I in the right place?

Get in line

[F87source]

Originally Posted by Proctor750

Hey, I'm here to get upset about batteries.

Am I in the right place?

Yessir

Dang batteries weigh too much right? But since they're in the rear lighter ones will shift the weight balance to the front, who do I complain to?

[doug_999]

Originally Posted by F87source

The 1m uses a 70AH 760A AGM lead acid battery from the factory aka an AGM battery, check for the Pb marker on the battery meaning lead. Here is the proof.... http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...diagId=61_1999
The only way you would not have an AGM battery is if you replaced it with an aftermarket lithium, or sulfate based battery which would require alot of coding... So there's another mistake you made, funny how you call me a "beginner or noobie"....

I was sort of hoping you would fall for that...

Mine does not and no, it was not replaced.
https://www.1addicts.com/forums/show...1334779&page=2

[doug_999]

Originally Posted by Proctor750

Hey, I'm here to get upset about batteries.

Am I in the right place?

Those two are really getting upset! If you want to join, make sure you throw some personal insults towards me as well - cause they appear to help their cause.

[chris719]

Originally Posted by doug_999

I was sort of hoping you would fall for that...

Mine does not and no, it was not replaced.
https://www.1addicts.com/forums/show...1334779&page=2

Man, you are completely clueless. Your battery is an AGM, just because the sticker doesn't say AGM doesn't mean it's not AGM. JFC. You can clearly see the CCA and AH ratings are the same and the telltale plastic cutouts show it's a Varta AGM battery.

BMW would NOT put a flooded battery in the trunk. You are welcome to put a flooded battery inside your car and see what happens after a few years.

Honestly, Sherlock, I don't know who pays you enough to afford a BMW with those reasoning skills.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by doug_999

I was sort of hoping you would fall for that...

Mine does not and no, it was not replaced.
https://www.1addicts.com/forums/show...1334779&page=2

Take a photo of the otherside of the battery at the positive terminal, it will have the Pb marker if it is an AGM battery as regulations require it so people don't throw lead into the garbage.

Just because it doesn't say AGM doesn't mean it isn't, bmw sometime doesn't label everything as they refine their stickers. That's probably why the later model batteries included it.

It's funny how you can ask you SA in the thread but when someone else does it then they're gullible. If the part numbers don't change or the battery wasn't superceded then it is the same battery but with different stickers......