[hlm2c]

Originally Posted by Davil

You mean a 993 of course. New Penis cars have electric steering. Nothing like 993 not even in the same league. CS is easily as good as 992 if not better as far as steering goes.

What type of cars ?

[chris719]

Originally Posted by Davil

You mean a 993 of course. New Penis cars have electric steering. Nothing like 993 not even in the same league. CS is easily as good as 992 if not better as far as steering goes.

Highly doubtful. You can sip the kool-aid sometimes, you don’t have to chug it .

[Davil]

Originally Posted by chris719

Highly doubtful. You can sip the kool-aid sometimes, you don’t have to chug it .

I have driven both. Have you? Be honest please.

[chris719]

Originally Posted by Davil

I have driven both. Have you? Be honest please.

No, but I have driven a 991 and every other BMW M car basically, and I know how "unbiased" the rest of your comments are. Odds of this being true are very low. I won't say zero.

[Davil]

Originally Posted by chris719

No, but I have driven a 991 and every other BMW M car basically, and I know how "unbiased" the rest of your comments are. Odds of this being true are very low. I won't say zero.

And you’ll never own either. Herein lies the problem with most Bimmerpost forum Porsche fanboys like yourself. I think it’s a weird American thing mainly. In other countries they are a BMW or Mercedes alternative, not an exotic car at all, just well made quality mass produced vehicles (aside their track specials which are for a different audience). Nowadays they are mainly a manufacturer that makes most of their money off rebadged Audi SUVs. They used to make some very engaging quirky sports cars but now it’s efficient boring things that get you from a) to b) quicker than the other guy in the pub so you can boast about it. Why do you think they are know as p-cars? If that’s what you term as fun then it’s a different definition to my own. I’m just a little bored of brainwashed masses coming on here spouting garbage.

[chris719]

Originally Posted by Davil

And you’ll never own either. Herein lies the problem with most Bimmerpost forum Porsche fanboys like yourself. I think it’s a weird American thing mainly. In other countries they are a BMW or Mercedes alternative, not an exotic car at all, just well made quality mass produced vehicles (aside their track specials which are for a different audience). Nowadays they are mainly a manufacturer that makes most of their money off rebadged Audi SUVs. They used to make some very engaging quirky sports cars but now it’s efficient boring things that get you from a) to b) quicker than the other guy in the pub so you can boast about it. Why do you think they are know as p-cars? If that’s what you term as fun then it’s a different definition to my own. I’m just a little bored of brainwashed masses coming on here spouting garbage.

I drive a car with the same steering rack and same software. I've driven probably 10 different Porsches (and I owned a Panamera Turbo, btw.). I read your posts. I've read other posts from other members that have driven various 911s. I don't need to know more.

When it comes to the M2 CS, you're as unbiased as the Iraqi information minister.

[hlm2c]

Originally Posted by chris719

I drive a car with the same steering rack and same software. I've driven probably 10 different Porsches (and I owned a Panamera Turbo, btw.). I read your posts. I've read other posts from other members that have driven various 911s. I don't need to know more.

When it comes to the M2 CS, you're as unbiased as the Iraqi information minister.

LMAO.. Dam, I just spat water all over my computer monitor

[RugbyBro]

Not taking any sides here - I think we can all agree here that steering "feel" is not exclusively the result of coding a steering rack, rather it is the sum of a variety of factors including alignment/geometry/kinematics, tires, mounting points, damping, springs, and coding on top.

There are lots of ways to improve "feel" but IMO it's best to judge steering on its own merits rather than compare EPAS and HPAS generically.

I will say this though - driving my F80 directly after spending extended time with a Alfa 4C and 992 Turbo (two separate occasions), I did not feel that my car was lacking anything in the steering department - sure it's a different feel but there is plenty of feedback and is very point & shoot.

[Rk-d]

My long winded perspective, FWIW on steering feel - I own the modified 993 I mentioned as well as a 991.2 GT3 Touring and an M2C with M performance coilovers, 763M wheels with Cup2s.


The modified 993 is far and away the best of these three when it comes to steering feel (not necessarily handling which is still overall much better in the GT3). You can feel literally everything on the road, but it’s more than just that - you can feel the weighting and unweighting of the car as you turn and as the road changes - it’s like another sense layer that is missing in other cars. Just driving in a straight line down the road is loaded with sensory detail.

The GT3 doesn’t have the same level of feedback. You get all the important information from the steering, but it doesn’t quite have that fizzy dynamic feeling from the steering that you get from the 993. No modern can does. This is offset by the fact that you do get a lot of chassis feedback and the engine is so much more explosive and exciting and dynamic. Grip and handling on the GT3 is also top tier. My GT3, like all Tourings, is a manual and it’s just a very fun car to drive.

The M2C has the worst steering of the three. It’s a little numb in comparison. I don’t think this is a software thing - I just think it’s an M2 thing. Now that said - I was really shocked by how good this car was on a track. I was expecting to feel unconfident and limited by the steering, but as the car was really pushed, I did not feel like the M2 was hiding a lot from me. I felt confident in what the car was doing and in my inputs. Maybe it’s one of those cars that really needs to be pushed before it starts talking back to you.

I’ve owned several M BMWs and Porsches. I like both brands, but uniformly across the board, the Porsche have better dynamics, feedback and feel. I don’t think that’s a controversial or “fanboy” thing to say. It’s just true, IMO.

[CSBM5]

Your favorable track experience is likely because the car just communicates so darn well even in 100% stock form...even the steering once one let's go of comparisons and learns the feedback that is there.

I posted a thread back in late 2018 shortly after buying the M2C after I spent four hours with the M2C on the Michelin 1/2 mile wet skidpad specifically to evaluate the steering and chassis feedback. My net takeaway from the experience and compared to my E90 M3 I drove on the same skidpad earlier is that "it's different." Of course this was all with DSC fully off (I did however do a few laps late in the day with MDM on to see how it behaved).

If my goal was to define the E90 M3's hydraulic nicely weighted and feeling-rich steering to the M2C and declare deficiencies, I could have gone down that path. With Mike Renner's encouragement, I remained fully open minded with the goal to see if I got acceptable feedback from the front tires approaching, at and exceeding the limits of adhesion. I did. It was however much different than the M3's feeling, but letting go of that comparison allowed me to adapt to what feedback the M2C was providing and tune myself to it. I spent many laps (~60 mph in the wet since it's a HUGE skidpad) simply slowly bringing up my speed until I start to lose front grip, and then once near/at that threshold, I played with the throttle and steering lock very gently to step over the limit and back...all the time evaluating what I'm feeling. I could go for numerous laps, right at/over the limits of the front tires continuously -- it was awesome. Think of driving 2 miles at/over the front tire's limits while evaluating feedback the entire time...

Hence I basically discovered that once I let go of any comparison I was able to quickly adapt to and realize the feedback I was getting, and it's fine. Perfect? No, but it was easy to tune into the fine submodalities of the response after a bit of experimentation.

I had a blast that day with the M2C after the first few sessions, and I ended up totally forgetting about evaluating the steering per se and just hooned it out there lap after lap....drifting for laps at a time, back to max speed attempts at the limits with no drifting, etc, etc. I had come into the day thinking if this steering is total ****, I'm probably just going to flip this car since we got it for a nice discount off MSRP, and it was in strong demand (this is Sept 2018), but by the end of the day my thoughts were no way...keeping this one for awhile, and it's still here today 4.5 years later.

[Rk-d]

^^^^

I think that’s fair to say. Some cars with truly numb steering - when you drive them fast it’s downright scary. This one actually starts to really gel and make sense at higher speed. I really fell in love with the m2 after tracking it. I think it’s a future classic.

[Ratcher]

I may be being a bit harsh regarding the M2C’s steering. It isn’t terrible, I was just wondering if it could get better. It’s miles worse than a GT4 or GT3 for that matter. Also, if I point it, it will go perfectly wherever it should! It’s just… sometimes mid corner it’s really helpful to know exactly what’s happening, and with my setup that’s not the case. And if you read everything, I don’t have a fully built race car, but it has got a few very important mods (all top quality too, suspension+wheels+tires). So I guess I expected this to improve the feedback more than it did.

And although I have never driven an M2CS, I am 100% sure that the Porsche steering - at least for GT models - is better because Porsche simply makes much better e-Steerings than BMW, this has always been the case since day 1 and I do know people with both cars that can attest do this (and actually track both cars in stock form).

The solution seems quite simple: stop driving GT cars 😂

[Davil]

Originally Posted by chris719

(and I owned a Panamera Turbo, btw.). I read your posts. I've read other posts from other members that have driven various 911s. I don't need to know more.

When it comes to the M2 CS, you're as unbiased as the Iraqi information minister.

Congrats on owning possibly the ugliest and most pointless car ever made. The old Top Gear comparo still stays in my memory as that car’s peak moment.

Also congrats on being one of Bimmerpost’s most effective bitter old trolls. I’ve read your posts too. But I do try to avoid them.

[Rk-d]

Originally Posted by Ratcher

I may be being a bit harsh regarding the M2C’s steering. It isn’t terrible, I was just wondering if it could get better. It’s miles worse than a GT4 or GT3 for that matter. Also, if I point it, it will go perfectly wherever it should! It’s just… sometimes mid corner it’s really helpful to know exactly what’s happening, and with my setup that’s not the case. And if you read everything, I don’t have a fully built race car, but it has got a few very important mods (all top quality too, suspension+wheels+tires). So I guess I expected this to improve the feedback more than it did.

And although I have never driven an M2CS, I am 100% sure that the Porsche steering - at least for GT models - is better because Porsche simply makes much better e-Steerings than BMW, this has always been the case since day 1 and I do know people with both cars that can attest do this (and actually track both cars in stock form).

The solution seems quite simple: stop driving GT cars ��

Porsche steering is better than the M2C, full stop. I'd be surprised if the M2CS bettered Porsche, but I've never driven one so I can't speak with authority on that.

All that said, to be perfectly honest, I like the M2C better than the Carrera. It's more fun, more engaging and has more personality.

[Humdizzle]

i own an m2c and 991.2 gt3 as well. the porsche is better.

but thats not to say the m2c is bad. the car goes where you turn it, you can catch slides, the chassis communicates well and better than my f80 thanks to the shorter wheelbase. there was never a moment where i've felt the car get out from under me.

the e9x was very good too and better than the f8x generation. it was hydraulic. but due to that alot of people would overheat their power steering fluid on track and it would spill out due to expansion

[chris719]

Originally Posted by Davil

Congrats on owning possibly the ugliest and most pointless car ever made. The old Top Gear comparo still stays in my memory as that car’s peak moment.

Also congrats on being one of Bimmerpost’s most effective bitter old trolls. I’ve read your posts too. But I do try to avoid them.

I only had it for a short time, bought it off a friend then got rid of it. I'm not sure how you can call it a "most pointless car ever made" but whatever lol. It was just too big for me.

If doubting that the M2 CS has better steering feel than a 911 makes me a bitter troll, then I am fine with that.