01-27-2020, 01:22 PM | #1321 |
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This M2C vs M2CS horse will undoubtedly be beaten to death until there is nothing left but some patches of hair, everyone grab a stick 😁.
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01-27-2020, 01:23 PM | #1322 |
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01-27-2020, 01:41 PM | #1323 | |
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I think your statement regarding ‘exclusivity’ explains why someone would be willing to pay an exorbitant amount for something rare and/or unique. Exclusivity is hardly a factor in ‘literally everything’ we buy as consumers, or the mentality consumers take toward ‘all purchases today.’ BMW did not have to do any research to conclude there are 2200 sport car enthusiasts in the world willing to buy a M2CS. BMW could sell 2200 bicycles at $30K a pop tomorrow if they wanted. BMW is into selling cars and making money. Period. So, the objective is to sell as many cars as possible and make as much money as possible. Literally the only basis of their existence as a car manufacturer business. BMW is trying to access more consumers . . . NOT fewer. I do not blame BMW for throwing the S55 into the M2C. In fact, turned out to be an amazingly successful decision born out of necessity. Where they are going wrong is with the release of the M2CS. Price it appropriately - say at $65-70K - and sell as many as possible! Sport car enthusiast masses are not stupid as whole but, as someone once said, ‘a sucker is born every day.’ BMW researchers have not concluded much more than that with their marketing and pricing of the M2CS. ///AVM |
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01-27-2020, 01:55 PM | #1324 | |
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2. Ability to 'afford' a M2CS has absolutely ZERO bearing in my comments. If I wanted an M2CS I would get the first release for $60K . . . or the second release priced appropriately at $65-70K. ///AVM |
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01-27-2020, 03:22 PM | #1325 | |
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You could build an M2CS and sell it for 65-70K, but it couldn't/wouldn't have the same parts on it that the new one does. The cost of tooling alone and things like NPV (net present value) and target ROI's require a degree of profit margin that makes special short run parts exceedingly expensive in the manufacturing world. BMW is re-using some parts, but not all. There is still engineering test and refitment etc. We could belabor this all day, but it doesn't take many parts for an engineering development program to cost 10-20 million (I've run a few) and 30,000 in profit PER car only provides 66 Million total to cover the program - if you were willing to go zero on ROI and NPV, which no company would ever do. That'd be if BMW got all the money, they don't. I don't know what it is the automotive world, but other manufacturing arena's, it's somewhere UNDER 1/3. So the margin is not the large in all honesty as BMW would have had less than 20 million for the entire development, testing, marketing, etc for the entire program. The aftermarket options versus factory option battle has raged since cars were built... but matching the M2CS from an M2C with factory parts puts you within about 8K, do a BMW individual color and you are nearly there, and STILL don't have the same exhaust, tune, or shocks or limited run. Yep, you can build up an M2C with aftermarket carbon bits and suspension and exhaust for less. Go nuts if that's your boat, but arguing that 30K is way out of sight is just not born out in the economics. And no matter what you argue, you are coming at it from a rational approach and trying to take a value driven mindset. Car buying just isn't rational, not for most people at least. I personally don't really care where they price the car at. It's perfect for me and I'd have paid another 15K and been fine with it. I could have bought a Cayman GT4 but I simply didn't like it and it wasn't good for doing things with my kids. This will be more fun based on how much I liked the M2 in comparison and it was worth GT4 money to me. There just aren't many cars that can REALLY track hard and still do the daycare run with ease... small venn diagram of interested parties there too Different strokes for different folks... but we all enjoy good compression and ignition strokes around here, so enjoy what we have in common.
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2023 CB X5 45e 2018 i3 94 2014 Cayman S Last edited by sdhotwn; 01-27-2020 at 03:28 PM.. |
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01-27-2020, 03:35 PM | #1326 |
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Sure. Just like a 911 GT3 is a rival to a GT3 RS. 45K+ for extra 20 hp, extra aero, and some suspension revisions. Your statement is true, and nothing is wrong with either car. Some people still want the RS though. Or tack on the Weissach package for another 18k...
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2023 CB X5 45e 2018 i3 94 2014 Cayman S Last edited by sdhotwn; 01-27-2020 at 03:41 PM.. |
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01-27-2020, 03:44 PM | #1327 | |
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Also, I've seen posts on here talking about how you could just add all of the Performance parts and have an identical car. But it is worthwhile to point out that most of the parts on the M2CS are not the M Performance parts offered for the F87. The splitter, hood, roof, spoiler, front seats, steering wheel, interior carbon and alcantara (dash pieces, door cards) are all bespoke to the CS; never mind the Adaptive Suspension. Not to say that it couldn't be done, but an M2C plus M Performance parts does not equal M2CS. ...And I'd like to see someone build a M2CS from an M2C and not spend more than 30k doing so.
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01-27-2020, 03:58 PM | #1328 | |
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I think your point is if you bought an M2C and tried to replace all the bolt-able parts with factory components to make an M2CS, including interior, shocks, etc, you'd be in for a bit more than 30K by the time that all settled up. I also agree with that being true!
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01-27-2020, 03:58 PM | #1329 |
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I have been calculating and speccing up a M2 CS for a friend today and I fell of my seat what the damn thing costs... My good lord... With discount we are still talking 90K EUR netto.
With M2C models flying out of the dealer at like low 50's, I am like why oh why would you buy a M2 CS which seems to be not limited and produced as much as they can in Leipzig. MR |
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01-27-2020, 04:01 PM | #1330 | |
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01-27-2020, 05:14 PM | #1331 | |
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01-27-2020, 05:19 PM | #1332 | |
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1. Tune from the factory. Aftermarket can void warranty. 2. Carbon fiber bits and other lightweight material inside and outside. 3. Adaptive Suspension 4. Limited production. US ordering has not even started yet. Car is supposed to be built in 2020 only. 5. Not everyone can take an M2C and build a M2 CS. Some want a finished car from the factory. |
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01-27-2020, 05:30 PM | #1333 | |
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SD I will not argue your statements about the cost of development, in general. However, your statements do represent the heart of the problem with the M2CS release and associated cost. If your statements held water, then please explain the images below, keeping in mind the M2C received the biggest performance upgrade ever in the M2 model lineup. . . S55 engine. In addition, it got all kinds of other ///M performance and non-performance parts. Yet, only a $4K jump in MRSP over the M2. Plane and simple, BMW is dropping the ball with the M2CS. The cost should be $65-70K. . . even then, if I wanted an M2 I would go after the M2CS v1. ///AVM Last edited by ///AVM; 01-27-2020 at 06:02 PM.. |
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01-27-2020, 06:09 PM | #1334 | |
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1) Emissions requirements mandated the switch. The accounting is very different in that scenario, so the way the budgets are generated when companies have to do a project versus stop-sale on a model has different ROI/NPV. It allows more to be done with less return on the investment, which allows for much lower markups. Pricing continuity for the market also will drive this - "same" model replacement year over year often will not allow for significant jumps. For my industry, we aim for around 3-5%. About inline with what you saw between the M2-M2C as well at a bit over 5%. 2) Volume... 14,000 in 2018 alone for M2/M2C I guess. So run the math again, and have the ability to spread it across multiple years. If you assume 3 years, and a minimum 30,000 cars... well you've got over 90 Million project budget just off a 3K markup. The S55 is not bespoke. BMW cars are designed for package swaps like that. The 2 series carries many different engines, so an engine swap and approval is, while not trivial, or cheap, a limited capital investment. Cheaper most likely for capital tooling (hardened steel, long lead time, custom design, non reusable, tools specific to a model) than the carbon body parts in fact. I personally can't rattle off the full differences list between the M2 and M2C, but with there being zero suspension differences (long argued over) and minimal exterior changes (bumper covers and mirror caps?) the investments aren't that deep, but I could easily be missing something that your point is spot on for.
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2023 CB X5 45e 2018 i3 94 2014 Cayman S Last edited by sdhotwn; 01-27-2020 at 06:35 PM.. |
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01-27-2020, 06:57 PM | #1335 | ||
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01-27-2020, 07:23 PM | #1337 |
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Two's company!
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01-27-2020, 07:36 PM | #1338 |
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01-27-2020, 07:39 PM | #1339 |
Luxury at the redline :)
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01-27-2020, 08:31 PM | #1340 |
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01-27-2020, 08:43 PM | #1341 | |
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Milking the cash cows.
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