BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
BMW M2 Forum > BMW M2 Competition Model > BMW M2 Competition vs Toyota GR Supra Track Battle at Hockenheim GP by Sport Auto

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      08-04-2020, 06:52 PM   #45
Moflow
Lieutenant Colonel
Moflow's Avatar
United_States
2485
Rep
1,602
Posts

Drives: 2020 M2C 6MT
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Seattle

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by cptobvious View Post
You know, I once got a Jack Russell Terrier. So much positive press about the breed. Supposedly, it was the best "platform" of all dog breeds - loyalty, friendliness, fun... All lies. Hated that dog. Peed over everything. Chewed up my Uncanny X-Men #193. Bit me once for trying to tickle his balls. Finally, gave him away to a 6 year old kid down the block.

I hate that dog so much, to this day, I continue to frequent the Jack Russell forums to tell everyone:
Hehehe this made me laugh!

I’m in the middle of moving and the M2 is my only car. I’m so happy I didn’t go with a Supra right now.

I like how the Supra looks. I like that it appears to be competent. But let’s not kid ourselves it’s a halo car. Toyota is trying to capitalize on nostalgia while proving to the world they’re not as boring as they’ve appeared to be over the past two decades. Not having a manual on the car is a travesty. I just can’t for the life of me understand the decision to spend all that money developing (or paying bmw to develop) a platform that compromises interior space, practicality, fuel economy etc in the name of driving fun only to not include a manual transmission. They got 90 percent of the way there but then fucked up that last ten percent in a way that pretty much invalidates their entire goal for a large number of people (and I’d argue a disproportionate number of the fanboys that make up the core market for this car.)

I was watching Matt Farrah review the four banger Supra recently. He mentioned that the last time he took one on a twisty road, the transmission overheated and the car went into limp mode. Torque converter autos are great...for certain things.

Anyway, yeah. I’m a salty former Toyota fanboy, so the car not having a manual really hurt.
Appreciate 0
      08-04-2020, 07:08 PM   #46
///AVM
Banned
United_States
2528
Rep
1,908
Posts

Drives: G80 M3C
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: U.S.A.

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by medphysdave View Post
I tend to agree with this BMWs of old still look remarkably good. I worry that the G series is a bit too trendy, but at some point you must transition to the electric revolution. I believe the G series is an evolutionary stepping stone.
Dave

I agree with you about BMWs of old . . . whenever I see circa 2015 335i M Sport I still think it is one of the best looking cars on the road. Not even an ///M car. Simple, common and quintessential BMW. . . great car. In fact, one day I am going to see one on a lot somewhere and take it off their hands.

Regarding G series . . . M3/4 are dead to me, but I do think the G87 M2/M2C are going to carry the F87 to the next level.

Finally, as a quick aside . . . by no means am I trying to enable you when it comes to those damn gold wheels, BUT I saw this M2 and I am man enough to say it . . . those gold wheels look pretty sweet in THAT photo.

///AVM
Attached Images
 
Appreciate 0
      08-04-2020, 08:19 PM   #47
akkando
Major General
akkando's Avatar
5860
Rep
6,631
Posts

Drives: 17 M2 DCT LBB,11 e90 M3 ZCP IB
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Bay Area

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
Sorry, they lost me the second I saw the automatic shifter, on the Supra..

It's really tragic they are so reluctant to mate it with a proper manual gearbox.

If they are trying to save a buck, they can simple use the one from M240i and just beef up the clutch and flywheel, since it shares an early iteration of the B58.. :

Until the new Supra finally comes with a clutch, there is no competition; the M2C wins, IMHO..



.
they're going to have something new for that car every year so they'll probably have mt eventually.

Hate comparisons with auto vs mt or wildly different tires.
Appreciate 1
Poochie9099.00
      08-04-2020, 10:05 PM   #48
Brandt51
Flavor of the month
Brandt51's Avatar
840
Rep
691
Posts

Drives: BMW F87 M2C
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Not Sin City, Nevada

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2020 BMW F87  [9.50]
Toyota manufacturing is known for being extremely efficient and always looking for ways to improve their processes.

That being said, maybe they plan on releasing a manual Supra in the future with higher hp motor (S58?). Planned obsoleteness, it works. And besides capitalizing on consumerism, having a manual sports car in the line up will help make Mr White New Balance Douche Bag think he's cool. Because the lame ass unibody SUV he bought for his stupid family is made by the same company that produces a fire breathing sports car that's available with a super cool stick shift that they "would so get if I didn't have these lame kids".

What I'm getting at, people want to connect with being part of a cool thing even though they won't take the plunge themselves.

BTW, the DCT is awesome and totally unrelated to my incoherent ramblings about hating on people that won't drive a manual.
__________________
Samuel of the Internet
2023 F98 X4M Comp
2023 F95 X5M Comp
2020 F87 M2 Comp
Appreciate 0
      08-04-2020, 10:07 PM   #49
Brandt51
Flavor of the month
Brandt51's Avatar
840
Rep
691
Posts

Drives: BMW F87 M2C
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Not Sin City, Nevada

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2020 BMW F87  [9.50]
Ted Cuz drives a Supra.
__________________
Samuel of the Internet
2023 F98 X4M Comp
2023 F95 X5M Comp
2020 F87 M2 Comp
Appreciate 1
Poochie9099.00
      08-04-2020, 11:15 PM   #50
pbar
Captain
pbar's Avatar
1381
Rep
756
Posts

Drives: 992 GTS, Tesla M3P
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: San Francisco

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by RinconHeat View Post
I read an article yesterday (which for the life of me I can't find but will continue to pursue) that speaks to the take-rate of manuals in a variety of cars. I seem to recall that the Ms had a significant take- over 20% in the US with the M2c close to 50%. I'll continue to look for the source.
Someday soon the take rate for manual transmissions for *all* cars in the UK may get down to 50%:

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-new...anual-13128619
Appreciate 0
      08-05-2020, 01:53 AM   #51
Ghostriderf80
Banned
United Kingdom
840
Rep
1,271
Posts

Drives: Just a Porsche
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Netz

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sphygmomanometer View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostriderf80 View Post
LOL 340 hp vs 410 split by 0.5 seconds.
You guys think the M2 is a great car... I think it's so bad, I got rid of mine, could not stand it.

Ohlins, links and camber plates and set up by a race shop, new P4s and it still handled poorly. The above video says it all.
If the above video says anything it's that the M2C was half a second quicker around Hockenheim than the Supra. I don't see how that would transfer to your experience with the M2C though.

I'm super happy with mine but then I don't have too many encounters with Supras ...
It's not supra encounter ...

That much power difference is good for at least a couple of seconds.

I think the issue is the handling of the m2.

Supra did it so much better.

Also quarter mile in another video the m2 beat it by a . Point on a second. That power diff should be good for 1.5 seconds.

Aside from the hype over it. Car does not deliver.

I am glad you're happy w this car.
Appreciate 0
      08-05-2020, 02:10 AM   #52
Davil
Brigadier General
Davil's Avatar
Australia
6334
Rep
3,027
Posts

Drives: M2 CS, 18 Vantage AMR, 00 WRX
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Australia

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostriderf80 View Post
Aside from the hype over it. Dog does not deliver.

I am glad you're happy w this animal.
Maybe a border collie next time?
Appreciate 1
cptobvious2531.50
      08-05-2020, 02:24 AM   #53
JustChris
General
JustChris's Avatar
No_Country
17423
Rep
25,088
Posts

Drives: Tesla MYRWD
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: UK

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fabb View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostriderf80 View Post
LOL 340 hp vs 410 split by 0.5 seconds.
You guys think the M2 is a great car... I think it's so bad, I got rid of mine, could not stand it.

Ohlins, links and camber plates and set up by a race shop, new P4s and it still handled poorly. The above video says it all.
You don't buy a M2 to beat supra.. Inherently we all know the 2 series is a compromised platform. You have more space, more utility than a 2 seater supra with honestly 0 headroom. The ingress and egress is also horrible on supra. I personally couldn't fit inside the supra thus I got the M2.
Also anyone like driving with the windows open?

I SAID ANYONE LIKE DRIVING WITHT THE WINDOWS OPENNNN?

Only for the brave in a Supra and you like hospital food.
__________________
My car made front page of Bimmerpost
Appreciate 2
pz6193274.00
Bumpinjeep5362.00
      08-05-2020, 04:38 AM   #54
Ratcher
Lieutenant
Ratcher's Avatar
757
Rep
413
Posts

Drives: M2 Competiton
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Stuttgart, Germany

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRobUSC View Post
wonder what the M2's time would've been with the DCT...
Its a high 1:57.xx. It has been tested already, even though there's no video of it. Don't recall the exact time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blaacky View Post
how's that A45s faster than a M2 CS and the Cayman GTS wtf
Trofeo R on the A45S, it's like cheating tbh

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostriderf80 View Post
LOL 340 hp vs 410 split by 0.5 seconds.
You guys think the M2 is a great car... I think it's so bad, I got rid of mine, could not stand it.

Ohlins, links and camber plates and set up by a race shop, new P4s and it still handled poorly. The above video says it all.
You have obviously never driven on Hockenheimring. Here goes my 2 cents, from someone who ran a 2:01.03 casually on a stock M2C there (btw: if I brake where he brakes on this video I wouldnt ever make the corners, I assume they put the tires on perfect temperature and then go for a hot lap).

A 70hp difference (which is more like 50, if that) isn't as important as it may seem.
The M2C with the standard tires has an incredible difficult time with the front. It clearly needs better or larger tires.
The Supra has a better platform for the track. And was still slower, despite having the quicker gearbox (on the M2 they shortshifted/didnt shift lower on 2 or 3 corners, where the DCT would obviously push harder).
Appreciate 0
      08-05-2020, 06:36 AM   #55
Brandt51
Flavor of the month
Brandt51's Avatar
840
Rep
691
Posts

Drives: BMW F87 M2C
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Not Sin City, Nevada

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2020 BMW F87  [9.50]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratcher View Post

You have obviously never driven on Hockenheimring. Here goes my 2 cents, from someone who ran a 2:01.03 casually on a stock M2C there (btw: if I brake where he brakes on this video I wouldnt ever make the corners, I assume they put the tires on perfect temperature and then go for a hot lap).
I've never tracked a car, only motorcycles. The skills and consistency is lost on a lot of people I suspect. Just because a car has certain specs and a pro drive can do XYZ with doesn't mean I can.

Comparing a 2 door sports car against a basic economy car with a big motor is doesn't make sense, but it seems to generate a lot of conversation.
__________________
Samuel of the Internet
2023 F98 X4M Comp
2023 F95 X5M Comp
2020 F87 M2 Comp
Appreciate 0
      08-05-2020, 06:39 AM   #56
Ratcher
Lieutenant
Ratcher's Avatar
757
Rep
413
Posts

Drives: M2 Competiton
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Stuttgart, Germany

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandt51 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratcher View Post

You have obviously never driven on Hockenheimring. Here goes my 2 cents, from someone who ran a 2:01.03 casually on a stock M2C there (btw: if I brake where he brakes on this video I wouldnt ever make the corners, I assume they put the tires on perfect temperature and then go for a hot lap).
I've never tracked a car, only motorcycles. The skills and consistency is lost on a lot of people I suspect. Just because a car has certain specs and a pro drive can do XYZ with doesn't mean I can.

Comparing a 2 door sports car against a basic economy car with a big motor is doesn't make sense, but it seems to generate a lot of conversation.
Agreed and I don't try to mimic pro drivers either. Surely take notes and try to learn what they're doing, but never forget that they know extremely well what they're doing and the average person should always add a safety margin - break 50 meters earlier, see how that feels, shorten if too much room left, etc. Go from there.

Look in the video about 1:20 min into the M2 lap, entering the 3rd section, how he does that corner. An inexperienced person would have had an incredibly hard time.
Appreciate 0
      08-05-2020, 07:33 AM   #57
CanAutM3
General
CanAutM3's Avatar
Canada
21105
Rep
20,741
Posts

Drives: 2021 911 turbo
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Montreal

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by BimBimM2 View Post
Really? The S55 is detuned in the M2C? Absolutely new to me. Very interesting!
S55 Factory Tunes:
410hp/405lb-ft M2C
431hp/405-lb-ft Base M3/4
450hp/405lb-ft CP M3/4 / M2cs
460hp/442lb-ft M4cs
500hp/442lb-ft M4GTS (with water injection)
__________________
Porsche 911 turbo 2021 992 GT Silver

Previous cars: M4cs 2019 F82 Limerock Grey / M4 2015 F82 Silverstone / M3 2008 E92 Silverstone / M3 2002 E46 Carbon Black

Last edited by CanAutM3; 08-05-2020 at 08:00 AM..
Appreciate 1
ChrisK4449.00
      08-05-2020, 07:49 AM   #58
CanAutM3
General
CanAutM3's Avatar
Canada
21105
Rep
20,741
Posts

Drives: 2021 911 turbo
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Montreal

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fabb View Post
Toyota is the best selling auto maker world because they have smart people to optimize the vehicle options and not spending unnecessary money. Also I am sure the supra project has a limited budget at the beginning but with the higher demand for the car (you have to buy those damn vehicles!), they will add a manual option down the line.
They are the best selling by volume because they make bland vehicles for the masses. They are however not the most profitable...
__________________
Porsche 911 turbo 2021 992 GT Silver

Previous cars: M4cs 2019 F82 Limerock Grey / M4 2015 F82 Silverstone / M3 2008 E92 Silverstone / M3 2002 E46 Carbon Black
Appreciate 1
ChrisK4449.00
      08-05-2020, 04:36 PM   #59
535i MSport
Captain
535i MSport's Avatar
United Kingdom
1172
Rep
897
Posts

Drives: 2017 C63S T
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: East Anglia

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Davil View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostriderf80 View Post
Aside from the hype over it. Dog does not deliver.

I am glad you're happy w this animal.
Maybe a border collie next time?
Woof!
Attached Images
 
__________________
2017 M3 Comp Pack 450PS

2017 C63S T 510PS
Appreciate 2
pz6193274.00
cptobvious2531.50
      08-05-2020, 04:44 PM   #60
pz619
Brigadier General
3274
Rep
3,254
Posts

Drives: F87 M2C 6MT, Tesla 3
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: San Diego

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by JustChris View Post
Also anyone like driving with the windows open?

I SAID ANYONE LIKE DRIVING WITHT THE WINDOWS OPENNNN?

Only for the brave in a Supra and you like hospital food.
This.

As someone that drives with the windows down pretty all the time, it's a deal breaker. I can't believe manufacturers are still struggling with this in 2020.
Appreciate 1
JustChris17423.00
      08-05-2020, 09:40 PM   #61
Winemaker2
Second Lieutenant
United_States
62
Rep
204
Posts

Drives: 2017 230i MSport THP Dinan V2
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: SF East Bay, CA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRobUSC View Post
wonder what the M2's time would've been with the DCT...
So do I. It would have been a better time. As much fun as manuals are, DCT and even the new ZF have proven a bit quicker.
Appreciate 0
      08-06-2020, 05:31 AM   #62
ChrisK
Major General
ChrisK's Avatar
United_States
4449
Rep
7,594
Posts

Drives: '19 M2C
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Chicagoland

iTrader: (7)

Garage List
These are the S55 Tune numbers I have (US):

405hp/406lb-ft M2C
425hp/406lb-ft Base M3/4
444hp/406lb-ft Competition Pkg M3/4
444hp/406lb-ft M2cs
454hp/442lb-ft M4cs
500hp/442lb-ft M4GTS (with water injection)

Agreed - People forget the M2C's S55 is de-tuned.
__________________
www.ReTuneTheDeTune.com
2019 M2 Competition (Sunset Orange)

Last edited by ChrisK; 08-06-2020 at 06:18 AM..
Appreciate 0
      08-06-2020, 06:17 AM   #63
baege
Lieutenant Colonel
1321
Rep
1,591
Posts

Drives: 2022 Cayman GTS 4.0 6MT
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Toronto, Canada

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M TOWN View Post
It shows clearly the S55 wasn't really needed

That B58 sounds simply glorious
I went from an m240i to an m2c

the s55 is a much more engaging engine than the b58

has much more character, revs more freely and has that motorsports feel

the b58 is strong and torquey and sounds good but it can't compare to an actual m developed engine
Appreciate 1
      08-06-2020, 09:04 AM   #64
///M TOWN
.
///M TOWN's Avatar
13117
Rep
8,300
Posts

Drives: M GmbH
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: North America

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2018 M2  [8.78]
Quote:
Originally Posted by baege View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M TOWN View Post
It shows clearly the S55 wasn't really needed

That B58 sounds simply glorious
I went from an m240i to an m2c

the s55 is a much more engaging engine than the b58

has much more character, revs more freely and has that motorsports feel

the b58 is strong and torquey and sounds good but it can't compare to an actual m developed engine
The OG M2 has a version of the N55 that was built by M not like a standard N55 engine used in standard series cars

Its a wonderfully capable engine and it sounds delicious compared to the horrific sound of the S55

My M2 will beat my M4 to 60 over and over again that's how capable it truly is

The only place I prefer the M4 is on the highway at higher speeds
__________________
///
Appreciate 1
D22M21366.50
      08-06-2020, 09:34 AM   #65
CanAutM3
General
CanAutM3's Avatar
Canada
21105
Rep
20,741
Posts

Drives: 2021 911 turbo
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Montreal

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisK View Post
These are the S55 Tune numbers I have (US):

405hp/406lb-ft M2C
425hp/406lb-ft Base M3/4
444hp/406lb-ft Competition Pkg M3/4
444hp/406lb-ft M2cs
454hp/442lb-ft M4cs
500hp/442lb-ft M4GTS (with water injection)

Agreed - People forget the M2C's S55 is de-tuned.
I posted the power values in DIN hp, you are showing SAE hp. In that respect, the GTS should show 493hp to be consistent and CS should show 453hp to be more precise .
__________________
Porsche 911 turbo 2021 992 GT Silver

Previous cars: M4cs 2019 F82 Limerock Grey / M4 2015 F82 Silverstone / M3 2008 E92 Silverstone / M3 2002 E46 Carbon Black

Last edited by CanAutM3; 08-06-2020 at 09:40 AM..
Appreciate 0
      08-06-2020, 11:36 AM   #66
Bumpinjeep
Colonel
Bumpinjeep's Avatar
United_States
5362
Rep
2,238
Posts

Drives: 2023 M2
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Redmond, WA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2023 M2  [8.00]
The biggest issue with Toyota sports cars is that Toyota doesn't build sports cars. They literally re badge other manufacturer's cars as their own. I wouldn't trust that in the sense of when the car needs servicing, wouldn't the techs at Subaru or BMW know more about the car than Toyota?
__________________
Present: 2023 M2 BSM W/Carbon everything, 6 Speed
Past:2020 M2C HS Executive, 6 Speed
Appreciate 1
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:40 AM.




m2
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST