[boostm3]

https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1423763

https://www.gangup.com/apex/winter-w...s-q3-2018.html

I bought this last year and its a great pkg.

[Who's on first]

Originally Posted by 10"

It's been nice knowing you. Those spiders are gonna slam you when you pick up those wheels soon!!!

Lol. Yea... no doubt they will be sprayed down before I reach my hands up there.

[Noel911]

Pretty fun in the snow...I use Pilot AS3 all seasons, but we don't get much snow down here in NC. THis is from our last 2" storm.

[GTIGUY1992]

Originally Posted by Who's on first

Sometimes it's about damaging tires but most of the time it's about the drawbacks the tires give when the temps get low. You will see braking distance dramatically increase and ride quality dramatically decrease and forget about driving on snow or sleet.

Personally, I swap out right about Thanksgiving weekend.. till April 15th.. give or take.

When the highs are in the 50's is when I start paying attention.

Gotcha, yeah I don't plan on running the car through winter- I have a FWD with all seasons for that, but it would be nice to be able to use the M2 into November at least.

It would suck to have to put it away 2 weeks after purchase until April 2019 hah.

[ZPrime]

Originally Posted by GTIGUY1992

Gotcha, yeah I don't plan on running the car through winter- I have a FWD with all seasons for that, but it would be nice to be able to use the M2 into November at least.

It would suck to have to put it away 2 weeks after purchase until April 2019 hah.

I bought mine in October 2017 and had to put snow tires on it before it was through the break-in service.

Originally Posted by GTIGUY1992

Don't mean to stray off topic, but at what temps do you guys switch out tires or stop driving on the summer only tires? I've heard anything below 40-50 F and you could start damaging the Pilot Super Sports.

Living in the Midwest, that pretty much means I'll need to switch to winter tires or put the car away by the end of this month hah.

You won't damage the PSS by driving them in cold, it just won't grip for shit. They get hard like a hockey puck.

The Pilot Sport Cup tires can be "damaged" by cold, but PSS, PS4S, or other comparable "max performance summer" tires just get hard and don't grip much.

I put on a set of 225/45R18 Michelin Xice3 mounted on 18x8 MSW Type 77 wheels. The wheels are pretty chunky / heavy, which I did on purpose because I figured it would help them withstand potholes better. I went with 225/45 so they'd do better in snow (narrower) and ride softer (more sidewall). Some pics of this setup earlier in the thread. (I had no clue I had already replied to this another day...)

This snow was at least 6-8" deep... and it made it through much deeper that night.

[Who's on first]

Originally Posted by ZPrime

I bought mine in October 2017 and had to put snow tires on it before it was through the break-in service.

You won't damage the PSS by driving them in cold, it just won't grip for shit. They get hard like a hockey puck.

The Pilot Sport Cup tires can be "damaged" by cold, but PSS, PS4S, or other comparable "max performance summer" tires just get hard and don't grip much.

I put on a set of 225/45R18 Michelin Xice3 mounted on 18x8 MSW Type 77 wheels. The wheels are pretty chunky / heavy, which I did on purpose because I figured it would help them withstand potholes better. I went with 225/45 so they'd do better in snow (narrower) and ride softer (more sidewall). Some pics of this setup earlier in the thread. (I had no clue I had already replied to this another day...)

This snow was at least 6-8" deep... and it made it through much deeper that night.

Your tires can be damaged.

The vehicles listed, do not all carry Sport Cup's....IIRC, only one of these listed do.

[GTIGUY1992]

Originally Posted by Who's on first

Your tires can be damaged.

The vehicles listed, do not all carry Sport Cup's....IIRC, only one of these listed do.

Thanks for the info! I only speak from relatively limited experience as my old mustang back in college had Sumitomo HTR-ZII summer tires and after driving in 30F temps for a few weeks I had cracking on all four.

Looks like the CTS-V & ATS-V are definitely PSS stock.

[heavyD^2]

We got some cold days weeks ago and at 10 deg. C I was losing the rear end on corners at moderate speeds on dry pavement. I have never had that happen before with a car but I wouldn't feel comfortable driving the PSS near freezing dry let alone in snow. It must be the PSS because I have used other extreme performance tires close to freezing and have never lost grip like that.

[GavsterMurf11]

Was gonna grab some winters but decided to pickup a new Subaru Crosstrek and will park the M2 for the winter...

[ZPrime]

Originally Posted by Who's on first

Your tires can be damaged.

The vehicles listed, do not all carry Sport Cup's....IIRC, only one of these listed do.

Did you read the full TSB? Are you sure?

The only tires that have warnings about cracking / damage are ones with special near-race compounds. Let's go through the list...

• 14-15 Caddy CTS Vsport - Pirelli P-Zero Nero (RPO RKK) - has low perf and cracking warning. This is the only one I'm not 100% on, but I suspect the "RPO RKK" marking means that these tires were a special one-off compound for GM. Probably have a grippier-than-standard compound, which will be damaged by low temp.

  .

• 2012-2015 Camaro Models RPO (ZL1, 1LE or Z28), 2017 Camaro ZL1 - "The Camaro ZL1 and RPO 1LE vehicles come with [...] Goodyear F1 Supercar G2 D.O.T. approved ultra high performance, track capable summer tires as standard equipment. The Camaro Z/28 is equipped with [...] Pirelli P Zero Trofeo R of similar capabilities." - This has the low perf and cracking warning, because these are race tires.

  .

• 2014-2017 Corvette, Corvette Z06 - "The 2014−2017 Corvette is equipped with Michelin Pilot Super Sport ZP Runflat tires or Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 ZP tires. These tires are ultra high performance, track capable summer tires." -- this has both the low perf and cracking warning. Obviously the Cup2 are race tires; the "ZP" designation for the PSS means they are a special compound, so again - stickier than a "normal" PSS off the rack, uses a different compound, have to treat it like a delicate flower

  .

• 2014-2017 Chevrolet SS - "The 2014−2016 SS is equipped with Bridgestone ultra-high performance summer tires." -- The only warning on this entry is the one about the tires losing grip when they get below 40F. There is no warning about cracking, because these are "normal" summer tires.

  .

• 2012-2017 Buick Regal GS, 2016-2017 Cadillac ATS-V and CTS-V - "The 2012-2017 Regal GS, 2016-2017 Cadillac ATS-V and CTS-V are equipped with ultra-high performance summer tires." -- Again, the only warning here is about the traction sucking below 40F. No warning about cracking. Pretty sure that most of these got a standard Pilot Super Sport, but it's not called out explicitly because I bet GM pulled a BMW and started using other "equivalent" rubber as well during the production run.

Again, the permanent damage only happens with tires that have fancy race tire compounds, like the Cup2, Trofeo R, etc etc. 200 treadwear Autocross tires ("Extreme performance summer" category on TireRack) might also fall into this category, it depends on the tire and compound.

It's not like Michelin / Continental / TireRack are storing all of these tires in tightly temp-controlled warehouses. TireRack's main warehouse is in the middle of Indiana, they get plenty of cold... I highly doubt the whole warehouse is heated, because the vast majority of the tires, even the "summer tires", don't give a shit.

OTOH, stuff like the Cup2 or other "extreme performance" summer rubber (i.e. near-race tires) are definitely stored in a temp controlled area, because they do take permanent (and invisible) damage from getting too cold - because their rubber compounds are temp sensitive.

I've seen this passed around several different sites in the past and all it does is spread FUD about summer tires.

The only stuff you have to worry about damaging with cold is stuff that is (or is nearly) a race tire, and it's all down to the rubber compounds used. Those same tires don't even like to see cold when in storage (let alone while mounted and carrying weight). Drive on them when too cold and they can crack as explained, but TBH just allowing them to become cold is enough to permanently affect the rubber's traction.

[akkando]

Originally Posted by ZPrime

The only stuff you have to worry about damaging with cold is stuff that is (or is nearly) a race tire, and it's all down to the rubber compounds used. Those same tires don't even like to see cold when in storage (let alone while mounted and carrying weight). Drive on them when too cold and they can crack as explained, but TBH just allowing them to become cold is enough to permanently affect the rubber's traction.

mps4s say that if they get to 20 degrees they need to be warmed up to 45 degrees for a day and not flexed, but I don't think they say anything about cracking. Which makes me wonder if it was just a legal issue and that's why they say this, or if there is real danger with mps4s stored at 20 degrees.

[GTIGUY1992]

Here is a link to the full NHTSA service bulletin, looks like you are correct ZPrime. Anything with track capable tires is under strict guideline to not even be moved in temps under 20 F (Trofeo R, Eagle F1s, PSS ZP). While the PSS or other Ultra High Performance tires are just under advisory of reduced traction under 40F.

Only info I've been able to glean on the RPO code for GM's "RKK" Pirelli's is that it is also a summer-only run flat.

Worth noting that it also states storage of any summer tire is recommended to be in areas above 20F. I'd bet tireracks facility doesn't reach that low temp any time in the year. I'd bet they only added that clause in as a liability thing for suppliers storing both race and ultra high perf. tires in the same location...

Overall not a very conclusive document.

[ZPrime]

I have friends who work for tire companies... I'm not a certified expert or anything, but I'm not just making shit up here.

Treat race tires correctly, but for the most part, you're not going to break/ruin a set of (normal) summer tires if they get a little cold.

I keep mine in my garage through winter... I would probably try to avoid doing this if I had 200TW / real track tires, but I don't. My garage isn't heated either, but it is semi insulated (the door is ancient and solid wood so not a ton of R-value there, the roof isn't, but I think the walls are) and attached to the house, and seems to stay warm enough to melt snow and ice off the cars most of the time, so I'm not too concerned with my MPS4S.

[Dyanisse]

I have a set of HRE 19” FF15 and Michelin Alpin Sport 4 for sale. i will DM you.

[ThatBlueM2]

Hijacking / resurrecting this thread. I'm thinking of going with Apex (Arc-8 ET30 -- these do NOT fit) EC7 ET31 18'' wheels for my winter setup, with Michelin Pilot Alpin 5 245/40 tires. Going with a square setup.

Are these wheel and tire sizes compatible with eachother, and are the wheels compatible with the M2?

[x233]

I wonder if anyone has had first-hand experience of Continental WinterContact TS 860S winter tires on their M2/M2C and how they compare to Michelin PA4s.

[JeffM2]

Originally Posted by Nibero11

Good Day everyone! I just purchased my first 18 M2 this past Thursday. I wanted some recommendations on winter tires and wheels? Or if anybody has some for sale.

I have not decided yet if I want to drive it much this winter. I may get a winter beater. Not sure how the M2 handles in the snow. Any recommendations? I live in New Jersey so the weather is not terrible but we do get some storms

Hi,

I bought the winter package for my M2 Competition and it was a really good choice!

[2nd chance]

Hello,

BMW- site: NO CHAINS possible on 640M... Last year it was an option...

Chains or no chains?

Need the info cuz chains mandatory in French Alps (in case of heavy snow).

Thx