[ShelJW]

     Featured on BIMMERPOST.com

Just curious if people generally turn off DSC and/or M Dynamic Mode.

I've found that the exhaust on my M2 is much louder when I turn off DSC, but part of my worries if it's easy to lose control of the car!

I've only lost control once, when I had rented an M2 prior to mine being delivered. It was early morning (about 5:30am), and I was taking my daughter to her school bus. Stepped (firmly, I guess) on the throttle, and the car fish tailed back and forth, and gave my daughter a scare! No other cars were on the road, and I was on a six lane major street, so I wasn't close to any other vehicle or obstacle, but still...

I know DSC was off, but I'm honestly not sure if I had mistakenly turned off MDM or not. Again, this was in a loaner M2, prior to my getting my own M2, so it's made me a little hesitant to turn off the nannies...

But that sound!!!

Car sounds SO much better with DSC off then when it's in Sport or Sport+...

So... just wondering if you guys drive often with either DSC and/or MDM turned off.

Thanks in advance!

[Thescout13]

DSC OFF shouldn't make a difference for sound unless you were in Sport/Sport + and that likely did it. As to spinning out, driving DSC off on a public road is pretty reckless and really not advisable at all, doesn't matter how good your skills are. I know others out there will disagree and say DSC off always, but all you need is one emergency situation and your dead or you kill someone. Driving in MDM maybe, but never DSC OFF unless I'm at a track. But I digress, you're and adult and you don't need a lecture.

If DSC is off MDM is not on. MDM is only on when it is on. At least that's my experience in the F80.

[Bee Pee]

Originally Posted by Thescout13

DSC OFF shouldn't make a difference for sound unless you were in Sport/Sport + and that likely did it. As to spinning out, driving DSC off on a public road is pretty reckless and really not advisable at all, doesn't matter how good your skills are. I know others out there will disagree and say DSC off always, but all you need is one emergency situation and your dead or you kill someone. Driving in MDM maybe, but never DSC OFF unless I'm at a track. But I digress, you're and adult and you don't need a lecture.

If DSC is off MDM is not on. MDM is only on when it is on. At least that's my experience in the F80.

Toggling between MDM & DSC (ASD less) compared to sport/sport+ (ASD more) - sound is more genuine with less ASD and sounds far better IMHO

[meady100]

Know the feeling. First two weeks of mine, I kept in in Sport+ as I enjoyed the throttle response, and being a little generous with the throttle out of junctions kicked the back out. Felt pretty scary and gave me much more respect for the car. Just glad it happened while the weather was dry!

[ShelJW]

Originally Posted by T[I

hescout13;23457969]

If DSC is off MDM is not on. MDM is only on when it is on. At least that's my experience in the F80.

This isn't correct.

To quote from the manual:

"When M Dynamic Mode is activated, stabilizing interventions are carried out only to a reduced extent. There is a risk of accidents, or risk to damage to property.

To increase vehicle stability, activate DSC again as soon as possible".

[Thescout13]

Originally Posted by ShelJW

This isn't correct.

To quote from the manual:

"When M Dynamic Mode is activated, stabilizing interventions are carried out only to a reduced extent. There is a risk of accidents, or risk to damage to property.

To increase vehicle stability, activate DSC again as soon as possible".

What? That doesn't disprove what I said. I said if you have DSC fully off, MDM is not on. If MDM is on, like the setting switch, DSC is still technically on but in a different setting.

Activate DSC again means turn it back on or have the car in MDM mode. I don't see where the confusion is. Maybe I wasn't as clear.

[dcmac]

In my experience, there is absolutely no sound difference between the Sport modes and DSC OFF. MDM mode does sound different because it allows for a lot more crackle and pop on overrun.

Last week I took my M2 to the track which gave me a very good indication of how and how much the traction control kicks in for Sport +, and where the car will completely let go in DSC OFF.

I found Sport + quite active and it was very effective at controlling/limiting oversteer... this was both good, because I could push harder and let the car correct me when I didn’t have the perfect line/speed, and bad, because I don’t think it allows you to learn the car like you should.

I switched off DSC for a few laps and all I can say is it is a completely different animal with all nannies off. Oversteers at will and if you’re not careful it’ll bite. I had an empty track for a lap so decided to get a bit arsey on a corner exit and see if I could drift it around. Ended up spinning it 180 (never left the track, but lesson learnt). As far as RWD performance cars goes its a predictable handler with great balance, but you still need to work at it and get to know the car before pushing limits like this.

I don’t see any point of driving with DSC OFF on the street - you are just asking for trouble and Sport+ gives you more than enough wriggle room to have a little fun.

DSC OFF only for the track.

[alavigne]

Originally Posted by dcmac

In my experience, there is absolutely no sound difference between the Sport modes and DSC OFF. MDM mode does sound different because it allows for a lot more crackle and pop on overrun.

Last week I took my M2 to the track which gave me a very good indication of how and how much the traction control kicks in for Sport +, and where the car will completely let go in DSC OFF.

I found Sport + quite active and it was very effective at controlling/limiting oversteer... this was both good, because I could push harder and let the car correct me when I didn’t have the perfect line/speed, and bad, because I don’t think it allows you to learn the car like you should.

I switched off DSC for a few laps and all I can say is it is a completely different animal with all nannies off. Oversteers at will and if you’re not careful it’ll bite. I had an empty track for a lap so decided to get a bit arsey on a corner exit and see if I could drift it around. Ended up spinning it 180 (never left the track, but lesson learnt). As far as RWD performance cars goes its a predictable handler with great balance, but you still need to work at it and get to know the car before pushing limits like this.

I don’t see any point of driving with DSC OFF on the street - you are just asking for trouble and Sport+ gives you more than enough wriggle room to have a little fun.

DSC OFF only for the track.

This is probably going to stir controversy (it certainly has in many other discussions like this on these forums), but the point made earlier on in this post (about the car being different with all nannies off) is exactly why I drove for nearly all of my post-break-in miles in Europe after my ED pickup with Sport (not Sport+) on and DSC completely off. I *wanted* to learn exactly what the raw handling of the car was, and I wanted to learn that FIRST. I did not want to become familiar with a "corrected" version of the car, have that behavior become ingrained in my head, then turn the DSC off and be suprised by something totally different.

My friend and I spent a full 3000 miles of twisty road driving in the alps -- in the dry and in the rain, on the twistiest roads we could find -- with DSC off. We approached things very incrementally, and to tell you the truth, I discovered that for me (and also for my friend Luke), the M2's handling is quite predictable.

I approached power-on cornering (and any sort of trail braking) very gradually, and even when I was more bold, I rarely had the back step out very much. I attribute that to a hard-wired mental "DSC" of sorts that I found I've developed over years from previous cars. I very instinctively am on the alert for any oversteer and unless I'm really wanting it to happen, I instinctively pull throttle if I feel oversteer starting to occur (or even before, if I'm in some sort of situation where I predict to myself that it could happen).

Following the 3000 miles of incident-free (and even scare-free) mountain fun, we headed up to the Nurburgring for a two-day visit where I did about 200 km of incident-free lapping on the Nordschliefe -- again with DSC off, and with three of those laps in the rain.

I leave DSC on when I'm not driving in a spirited manner (commuting, driving on a freeway, etc) - I'm not as focused on the car's chassis in those situations and I'm not looking for at-the-limit feedback anyway. However, when I am, I turn it off. I want to feel this car's chassis - it's what makes it such a great sportscar. This is no different than my previous car (a supercharged S2000), which had no DSC at all and which was similarly oversteer-prone. I believe overall that I'm much more comfortable with the M2's handling and behavior because of it.

I know the prevailing view is that there might be at some point some extraordinary situation that you can't foresee where the electronic interventions will prevent a huge crash, and this being a world where nothing is 100% guaranteed, I'm sure that's true. But I believe that if approached in a very methodical and incremental manner (and exercising some extra restraint when there are other cars or people around), you can indeed be quite safe with DSC off while spiritedly enjoying your favorite mountain twisty.

[ICantDrive4Sht]

Allways dsc off and in manual mode. Except on highways
Am in my 4th set of rear tyres this year Sport+ Is worthless

[ajvdh]

Originally Posted by 6erLover

Allways dsc off and in manual mode. Except on highways
Am in my 4th set of rear tyres this year Sport+ Is worthless

This. IMO, Sport+ is the MMMarketing mode. It's good for ripping away from lights, but the 90s-GM-performance-car-instant-tip-in throttle response is obnoxious, and MDM still gets in the way. The fact that the real performance mode (DSC off) uses the Sport throttle mapping speaks volumes.

On my 3rd set of tires (2nd set of RE71s) at 16k miles. Last set, I wore out all four corners at about the same time. Because autocross. I did give the rears a Viking funeral on the way to the tire store.

Whoever says DSC off is "unsafe," you might look at your driving habits. As long as you're not treating the fun pedal like an on-off switch, the car is eminently controllable.

[greasypeanut]

Originally Posted by ajvdh

Whoever says DSC off is "unsafe," you might look at your driving habits. As long as you're not treating the fun pedal like an on-off switch, the car is eminently controllable.

Truth... What did everyone do 20 years ago when this wasn't an option.

I always drive in traction mode just for the sound. I'm a grandpa on public roads as I would never drive the car in a way where traction control would ever be needed. And I go to the track often enough, and there I can have "safe" fun on track with all the nannies off

[Zabi]

Originally Posted by greasypeanut

Truth... What did everyone do 20 years ago when this wasn't an option.

Drove 100hp scooter cars

[AndrewC1989]

Originally Posted by 6erLover

Sport+ Is worthless

Maybe stock it is.

I coded in M4 GTS MDM and Sport+ is perfect now. You can still drift and do rolling burnouts in 1st and 2nd gear without sacrificing the safety nets that prevent you from spinning out of control around a corner. Most importantly it allows you to stay in the most aggressive throttle response map which is only found in Sport+ mode. DSC off uses the sport throttle sensitivity setting (which I hate).

I also coded in M4 GTS EPS. Steering is much less heavy/artificially weighted and feels more linear. Making these two coding changes makes it feel like a completely new car and gives me no reason to turn off DSC (on the street). I highly suggest trying both.

More info here:

https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1504747

[akkando]

Originally Posted by greasypeanut

Truth... What did everyone do 20 years ago when this wasn't an option.

I always drive in traction mode just for the sound. I'm a grandpa on public roads as I would never drive the car in a way where traction control would ever be needed. And I go to the track often enough, and there I can have "safe" fun on track with all the nannies off

20 years ago I didn't have access to an almost 400hp car.

[philinit]

Originally Posted by ajvdh

This. IMO, Sport+ is the MMMarketing mode. It's good for ripping away from lights, but the 90s-GM-performance-car-instant-tip-in throttle response is obnoxious, and MDM still gets in the way. The fact that the real performance mode (DSC off) uses the Sport throttle mapping speaks volumes.

On my 3rd set of tires (2nd set of RE71s) at 16k miles. Last set, I wore out all four corners at about the same time. Because autocross. I did give the rears a Viking funeral on the way to the tire store.

Whoever says DSC off is "unsafe," you might look at your driving habits. As long as you're not treating the fun pedal like an on-off switch, the car is eminently controllable.

agreed!!

[ICantDrive4Sht]

Originally Posted by andrewc89

Maybe stock it is.

I coded in M4 GTS MDM and Sport+ is perfect now. You can still drift and do rolling burnouts in 1st and 2nd gear without sacrificing the safety nets that prevent you from spinning out of control around a corner. Most importantly it allows you to stay in the most aggressive throttle response map which is only found in Sport+ mode. DSC off uses the sport throttle sensitivity setting (which I hate).

I also coded in M4 GTS EPS. Steering is much less heavy/artificially weighted and feels more linear. Making these two coding changes makes it feel like a completely new car and gives me no reason to turn off DSC (on the street). I highly suggest trying both.

More info here:

https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1504747

Sport throttle response imo is good, and if by stock you mean the gts mdm then yes my car is stock.
Sport+ lets you only play a little, like "this is what you could do but can't"
Don't know about GTS Mdm but, i think it still wont allow you to go completelly sideways in roundabouts or stuff like that.

[ICantDrive4Sht]

Originally Posted by ajvdh

Whoever says DSC off is "unsafe," you might look at your driving habits. As long as you're not treating the fun pedal like an on-off switch, the car is eminently controllable.

That's true. Compared to last "performance car" i drove, mustang gt, the M2 is so so much better handling and more easy to controll. With the mustang i was allways scared when trying to play a little, maybe cause i didnt want to end up in youtube. M2 on the other hand, anyone can drift it.

[KristianS]

For those talking about crackles and bangs, I'm pretty sure DSC off is the same as MDM and other sport modes. It's not done for effect, it's there because the car has a turbo charger and anti-lag to stop the turbo stalling between shifts, thereby keeping it more on boost when you're back on the throttle! In comfort mode there's less need to eliminate lag or make the engine more responsive at the limit.

And Sheljw was wrong and Thescout13 is correct. MDM is a mode in itself with less intrusive stability but still with some intervention whereas DSC off is exactly what it says on the tin, everything is off and it's all down to the driver!

[Dec540]

Am I missing something, with this simplistic understanding of the driving modes.

A few cars ago I had an E46 325 and it it had DSC. No comfort / sport / sports+

If I tapped DSC once, the car would allow a small amount of slip, before the computers kicked in. If I held DSC for a number of seconds the handbrake light would also turn orange, indicating that all the systems (besides ABS) were now turned off and there would be no computer intervention.

My understanding is that there are 4 modes in the M2, as follows. There is no combination of modes.

Comfort - self explanatory, all systems remain on.
Sport - a bit more noise / engine response / gear changes, with all the systems still engaged
Sport+ - Akin the the DSC mode in my E46. Some slip enabled, but the systems kick in to ensure you remain in a reasonably straight line.
DSC off - you're on your own. No systems besides ABS.

Throttle maps, steering weight etc. also differ between modes.

You get the exact same result if you select DSC off whilst in comfort, sport or sports+

Sound right?

In terms of my use - typically sports+ on the street with a rare dose of DSC off when the occasion calls for it.

[GoneIn4Secs]

Originally Posted by Thescout13

DSC OFF shouldn't make a difference for sound unless you were in Sport/Sport + and that likely did it. As to spinning out, driving DSC off on a public road is pretty reckless and really not advisable at all, doesn't matter how good your skills are. I know others out there will disagree and say DSC off always, but all you need is one emergency situation and your dead or you kill someone. Driving in MDM maybe, but never DSC OFF unless I'm at a track. But I digress, you're and adult and you don't need a lecture.

If DSC is off MDM is not on. MDM is only on when it is on. At least that's my experience in the F80.

When you turn dsc off, thw car swtiches to sport mode

[KristianS]

to help with definitions.

[ShelJW]

Originally Posted by KristianS

And Sheljw was wrong and Thescout13 is correct.

Honestly, I don't mind being wrong, but I copied and pasted straight out of the manual, so it would have to be BMW that's wrong, not me!

Go to page 136 of the manual, and that's where I got what I posted!