[JCZ5]

Originally Posted by djarchow

Jon Shafer over on Bimmerfest in the Ask A Dealer section says allocations for the M2C are getting scarce and that the final run will be all M2CS.

That is interesting. Wonder why as the M2C was originally scheduled for EOP in June 2021 (somewhere around there?). And understandably, BMW needs to allocate some resources to build the M2CS now that it is delayed. But even if production resumes in May, that's only 2-3 months of stop production. Didn't think BMW would require all the rest of the time to devote to getting M2CS back on track. Especially when they're only producing 2,200 units

[BigKutta]

Originally Posted by JCZ5

That is interesting. Wonder why as the M2C was originally scheduled for EOP in June 2021 (somewhere around there?). And understandably, BMW needs to allocate some resources to build the M2CS now that it is delayed. But even if production resumes in May, that's only 2-3 months of stop production. Didn't think BMW would require all the rest of the time to devote to getting M2CS back on track. Especially when they're only producing 2,200 units

I was destined to have a M2C . And hence she sits in my garage...

[flybigjet]

Originally Posted by djarchow

Jon Shafer over on Bimmerfest in the Ask A Dealer section says allocations for the M2C are getting scarce and that the final run will be all M2CS.

If the 2021 M2C is actually a mort, you'd think it would be huge news and be all over the place-- a press release from the Mothership if nothing else.

It's going to be interesting. Maybe they're going to up production of the M2C to make up for the shortfall? If someone was holding out for a 2021, I could see them jumping to the M2CS (if more were available) if the M2C is no longer in production?

My M2C should have come off the boat in Port Hueneme yesterday. Now if only it makes it to Denver on the transporter.....

[///AVM]

Originally Posted by djarchow

Jon Shafer over on Bimmerfest in the Ask A Dealer section says allocations for the M2C are getting scarce and that the final run will be all M2CS.

I suspect this is the SA @YAK was referencing in post #252, and later indicated was a member on this forum.

"I saw my sales person yesterday. He said they will get one more allocation of the M2C as 2020 models before BMW switches over to building the M2CS as a 2021 model."

Is he right or wrong? Well, I cannot prove one way or the other. Nonetheless, I always find it odd when one SA shares insight that is otherwise unknown to SA colleagues and the public.

I can also say I have relations with two dual Porsche/BMW dealerships near my home. No SA at either dealership has been told by BMW that production of the M2C will cease in favor of M2C production.

In fact, the universal response is that BMW has not told them anything to date regarding plans for the M2C and M2CS release and production. That seems to be pretty consistent with information shared currently and routinely on this forum.

///AVM

[medphysdave]

Originally Posted by ///AVM

I suspect this is the SA @YAK was referencing in post #252, and later indicated was a member on this forum.

"I saw my sales person yesterday. He said they will get one more allocation of the M2C as 2020 models before BMW switches over to building the M2CS as a 2021 model."

Is he right or wrong? Well, I cannot prove one way or the other. Nonetheless, I always find it odd when one SA shares insight that is otherwise unknown to SA colleagues and the public.

I can also say is I have relations with two dual Porsche/BMW dealerships near my home. No SA at either dealership has been told by BMW that production of the M2C will cease in favor of M2C production.

In fact, the universal response is that BMW has not told them anything to date regarding plans for the M2C and M2CS release and production. That seems to be pretty consistent with information shared currently and routinely on this forum.

///AVM

I 2nd this with regard to my SA. I keep in frequent contact with him. He said he gets his most up to date info from me.

[Madmat]

Seems to me that might be closing the door to the adaptive suspension on 21' M2.

https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...739&page=3

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by Madmat

Seems to me that might be closing the door to the adaptive suspension on 21' M2.

https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...739&page=3

I agree, It seems that Adaptive Suspension is the CS's claim to fame and a bespoke addition; I don't see them throwing that on a standard '21 Competition model.

Excerpt from the M4 CS's press release, which shares the same components and tuning as the M2 CS:

[///AVM]

Originally Posted by Poochie

I agree, It seems that Adaptive Suspension is the CS's claim to fame and a bespoke addition; I don't see them throwing that on a standard '21 Competition model.

Excerpt from the M4 CS's press release, which shares the same components and tuning as the M2 CS:

Poochie

I guess I do not get all of this Adaptive Suspension talk when it comes to the M2CS . . . why does BMW offer more suspension options (Comfort, Sport and Sport Plus) as the model becomes more track-focused?

I understand Adaptive Suspension represents more sophisticated and costly technology, and BMW needs to do something to TRY and justify the price of the M2CS.

Aside from not making sense to offer 'Comfort Mode' to a track focused car, doesn't the Adaptive Suspension add more weight over the M2C fixed suspension?

From what I have read on this forum by dedicated track enthusiasts, the suspension of choice seems to be fixed with coil-overs? Could be wrong, but that is the consensus impression I have gained.

Just out of curiosity, do you happen to know where the fixed M2C suspension falls on adaptive scale of Comfort <---> Sport Plus? I suspect I know the answer, just looking for confirmation.

Anyway I slice it, the M2C just keeps landing in the 2-series 'sweet spot.'

///AVM

[medphysdave]

I'd be curious to know this as well. Does the adaptive portion of the system control the speed and ebound of damping? If yes, then a stiff spring could be made firm but comfortable. Too stiff a spring and nothing will help. Inversely a lighter spring could be used with controlled rebound and damping. Too soft a spring and your always reliant on the electronic shock absorber. If the system is slow, then it will cause perceived ride compliance issues.

A track focused vehicle should come with stiffer springs to minimize how hard the electronic system needs to work.

[panda-R]

Originally Posted by flybigjet

It's going to be interesting. Maybe they're going to up production of the M2C to make up for the shortfall? If someone was holding out for a 2021, I could see them jumping to the M2CS (if more were available) if the M2C is no longer in production.

The M2C isn't a hot seller. They sit on lots for a long time. If the delays are any longer theyd probably just cut the run short and release the next Gen on time since this gem is moving so slow....that's my take.

[CSBM5]

If the M2CS was truly a "track focused" product, it would come with adjustable front camber. As it is, it will simply burn the outer edges of the front tires away, and any serious track use will require camber plates. I suppose BMW is scared of something relating to adjustable front camber else they would offer it like many other performance cars. Chevy provides track alignment specs for the C8 which makes a huge difference on the track (one of the car mags did a back to back recently), but of course the C8 has adjustable front camber over a wide range, but at least track use for the C8 is not just M-marketing fluff-talk.

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by ///AVM

Poochie

I guess I do not get all of this Adaptive Suspension talk when it comes to the M2CS . . . why does BMW offer more suspension options (Comfort, Sport and Sport Plus) as the model becomes more track-focused?

I understand Adaptive Suspension represents more sophisticated and costly technology, and BMW needs to do something to TRY and justify the price of the M2CS.

Aside from not making sense to offer 'Comfort Mode' to a track focused car, doesn't the Adaptive Suspension add more weight over the M2C fixed suspension?

From what I have read on this forum by dedicated track enthusiasts, the suspension of choice seems to be fixed with coil-overs? Could be wrong, but that is the consensus impression I have gained.

Just out of curiosity, do you happen to know where the fixed M2C suspension falls on adaptive scale of Comfort <---> Sport Plus? I suspect I know the answer, just looking for confirmation.

Anyway I slice it, the M2C just keeps landing in the 2-series 'sweet spot.'

///AVM

Well, I can try to explain the nuances of the technology as best that I can but BMW already did in an in-depth interview on the subject, right when the M4 was released, so I'll link it below and it should shed some light on the subject


https://www.bmw-m.com/en/topics/maga...nd-bmw-m4.html

As far as tracking goes, I believe the Adaptive Suspension represents the dampers ability to control pitch, roll and braking. Which is an advantage in the handing department, so they are subjectively better than fixed dampers.

Static dampers are set to one rate, at all times, regardless of the operation of the vehicle. I would say it's somewhere in what adaptive would consider Sport.

The advantage of the dampers being able to be manipulated with adaptive, means it can adjust to a varying degree, depending on need, taking input from the vehicle's logic and the 4 speed sensors, on each wheel.

For instance, when you brake, the system's electronics would know to firm up the shocks, to eliminate body pitch and as the vehicle resumes speeds, it relaxes the dampers so the ride isn't as jarring and more relaxing.

In Comfort mode, they are always adjusting based on the logic, hence the name adaptive. When toggled to Sport, it remains firm, without really considering the data, as static as non-AS dampers would, at all times.

Static suspension would be fixed to one set rate and is not able to adjust and be flexible like AS.

As far as overall mass goes, the only difference with AS and static dampers are a few sensors and wiring, here and there. They are both made of aluminum shock bodies, that doesn't represent any meaningful increase in weight.

And I agree, $85,000 is a lot of F-ing money for a M2 CS, although I love how menacing it looks, the M2C with the S55 is certainly the better value, regardless of its suspension setup.

Adaptive Suspension is certainly not worth the extra $25,000 but it is a cool feature nonetheless.

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by panda-R

The M2C isn't a hot seller. They sit on lots for a long time. If the delays are any longer theyd probably just cut the run short and release the next Gen on time since this gem is moving so slow....that's my take.

I hope and feel the same; I can't see them just resuming production, midstream, for a final year run, whenever the world reboots.

They might as well jump into the newer projects and forgo the '21 year model..

But what do we know..

[AlpsRider]

The BMW adaptive suspension can be nice in town over patched pothole moguls. It does work well in many situations. However like anything that is automatic it sometimes gets the situation wrong. One thing that I've noticed is that with my M235i with adaptive suspension it would firm up excessively at speeds over 85 mph on eneven concrete freeways, giving a jiggly ride. My M2C at +85 is smooth and comfortable. I think with adaptive it all comes down to how good the software is handling the situation.

[Moflow]

Originally Posted by Poochie

I hope and feel the same; I can't see them just resuming production, midstream, for a final year run, whenever the world reboots.

They might as well jump into the newer projects and forgo the '21 year model..

But what do we know..

I'm obviously biased, but I bet the M2C will hold its value well, especially if it ends up being produced for just 2 years. A lot depends on the styling of the next generation car as I think there are some people who will never like the big grille look (and i think the trend will age badly.) This goes doubly if the next gen M2 doesn't get a manual, but it's looking like it will end up with that option.

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by Moflow

I'm obviously biased, but I bet the M2C will hold its value well, especially if it ends up being produced for just 2 years. A lot depends on the styling of the next generation car as I think there are some people who will never like the big grille look (and i think the trend will age badly.) This goes doubly if the next gen M2 doesn't get a manual, but it's looking like it will end up with that option.

I wouldn't exactly hold your breath on its value remaining static, they said the same thing about the E92 M3, it being the last naturally aspirated and V8 but its value tanked, once the new F80 was released.

I could of only dream of an E92 M3 when it's MSRP was around $70,000 new but now I could buy one for $15,000 and make it my hoopty, to drive around and smoke weed in.. So there's that..

Also, the next M2 has been confirmed to have a detuned S58, RWD only, with a bonafide manual transmission option, so the M2C doesn't have anything that's bespoke, hence, you won't be losing anything by upgrading.


Report: G87 M2 Will Have 420+ HP, S58 Engine, Manual & Auto, RWD Exclusively https://www.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1701797

[AlpsRider]

This is the part of the article that was predicted but disappointing.

"Together with 406lb ft of torque, this should ensure off-the-line performance is on par with, if not better than, that of its predecessor, despite an incremental increase in weight due to slightly larger dimensions."

[CSBM5]

Originally Posted by Poochie

Adaptive Suspension is certainly not worth the extra $25,000 but it is a cool feature nonetheless.

For track use I sure would prefer some MCS double adjustable coilovers with nice spring rates and camber plates...over the stock M2CS adaptive setup and spring rates.

[JCZ5]

Completely agree with Poochie on the value of future M2C. It will tank just like the rest of the more recent Ms. I too remember when people thought for sure the e92 would be the last of a generation and hold value tremendously. Yep, that did not work out too well.

Honestly, M has lost the mystic it once had and it is overproduced in every iteration. I thought the competition moniker would harken back to the "specialness" of the original M. But even now, it's pretty run of the mill.

However, having more accessibility when the auto industry is in turmoil is not necessary a bad thing.

[Moflow]

Yeah, i'm not counting on the car being worth real money or anything like that. Just a little bit more resistance to depreciation than the average car. At the end of the day though, that's not why I bought it.

Just a fun discussion on an academic level.

The E92 is a good counterpoint, but I think the rod bearings are the reason for that car's depreciation. Time will tell if the crankhub issue is as pervasive. Then again, IMS bearings really killed 996 values, so S55 cars might end up in a similar position, though being built in much smaller numbers works in the M2C's favor.

Also, the next M2 has been confirmed to have a detuned S58, RWD only, with a bonafide manual transmission option, so the M2C doesn't have anything that's bespoke, hence, you won't be losing anything by upgrading.

Yup, totally true. But if it gets a big ugly grille, all bets are off the table.

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by Moflow

The E92 is a good counterpoint, but I think the rod bearings are the reason for that car's depreciation

I heard about the rod bearing issue, plus I helped a friend replace the throttle body actuator in his M3 because the gear teeth was made of expendable plastic

The S55 has its own shortcoming, namely the weak crank hub, no M car is perfect.

And I'm not sure how the S58 will hold up, seeing how the new B58 TU in the M340i, which shares the same architecture, is burning oil, at an alarming rate.

https://www.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...php?p=25587645

You just can't get a break with these cars..

[VisualEcho]

Originally Posted by Poochie

You just can't get a break with these cars..

Something specifically wrong with the N55?