[inlin36]

I bought a 29k mile LCI F87 M2 a few months ago and I like the car, but I've very quickly realized it just doesn't feel like it does well in turns.

I am not talking about issues with the steering, but how the actual chassis reacts in corners. It's completely stock and when I push it into any remotely tight turn/curve, the car feels a bit understeery & a lot of body roll/lean for an M car is felt. It's really unsettled and not confidence inspiring.

I have an E36 on Bilstein B12's that flows through the same exact corners like a breeze. Is this normal for stock M2's? I know they're heavier, but not that heavy. Maybe something is wrong with my specific car if nobody can relate to this, but it doesn't seem that way. I haven't located any issues plus the car was PPIed before I bought it.

[Andrew2]

The opposite to my experience ...

Tyres - condition & pressures OK ?

Wheel alignment OK ?

Comparing different cars can compound any perceived `issue`

[annabellapizza]

Stock suspension? Most cars from factory are purposely engineered to have some understeer rather than oversteer. Might it be a tire or alignment issue? An m2s chassis has always been rock solid and zero body roll in the multitude of variants I’ve driven.

[spavlas77]

What tyres are you using? I believe I feel much more of what you describe when using winters. In summers on Contis SC7, the car feels as planted as anything else I have ever driven.

But in winter months it can feel a bit understeery when really pushing it and a bit mushier with the softer side walls.

[Philly_sweden]

Originally Posted by spavlas77

What tyres are you using? I believe I feel much more of what you describe when using winters. In summers on Contis SC7, the car feels as planted as anything else I have ever driven.

But in winter months it can feel a bit understeery when really pushing it and a bit mushier with the softer side walls.

Makes me happy!
Just bought new SC7’S

[AlpsRider]

Originally Posted by Philly_sweden

Makes me happy!
Just bought new SC7’S

I'd like to give those a try but sadly I haven't been able to find them in Nort America for the M2. How do you like them compared to what you had before?

[Philly_sweden]

Originally Posted by AlpsRider

I'd like to give those a try but sadly I haven't been able to find them in Nort America for the M2. How di you like them compared to what you had before?

Dont Know yet.

I have had PSS on all my previous M cars. The reason I bought these now is because they win every test and beats both PSS and PS4S and other brands.

Will mount them in May when I take out the car from storage

[AlpsRider]

Originally Posted by Philly_sweden

Dont Know yet.

I have had PSS on all my previous M cars. The reason I bought these now is because they win every test and beats both PSS and PS4S and other brands.

Will mount them in May when I take out the car from storage

Great, I'm looking forward to the review.

[OG Shark]

Need to keep in mind the suspension philosophy that BMW went with on these cars - undersprung and overdampened. They run really soft springs to provide better ride quality but then have to use the dampers to help compensate for the lack of spring rate to control the body. This creates the harshness or crashiness a lot of people report with the F87 while also not being the best at controlling the lean. This could be a big part of the issue. Also need to check the alignment and make sure all is sorted properly there.

[carchrism5]

Originally Posted by OG Shark

Need to keep in mind the suspension philosophy that BMW went with on these cars - undersprung and overdampened. They run really soft springs to provide better ride quality but then have to use the dampers to help compensate for the lack of spring rate to control the body. This creates the harshness or crashiness a lot of people report with the F87 while also not being the best at controlling the lean. This could be a big part of the issue. Also need to check the alignment and make sure all is sorted properly there.

Great points here, personally I hated the crashiness of the car and that's a big reason so many went for coilovers. Also, an LCI car is 6 years old at this point and depending on where the car lived before, the factory dampers may be at the end of their life, even with lower mileage.

[inlin36]

The tires are brand new, they were replaced a month before I bought the car. However, I am unsure if it was aligned after that tire installation occurred. I will get an alignment next week and see if that fixes anything. Thanks.

[inlin36]

Originally Posted by OG Shark

Need to keep in mind the suspension philosophy that BMW went with on these cars - undersprung and overdampened. They run really soft springs to provide better ride quality but then have to use the dampers to help compensate for the lack of spring rate to control the body. This creates the harshness or crashiness a lot of people report with the F87 while also not being the best at controlling the lean. This could be a big part of the issue. Also need to check the alignment and make sure all is sorted properly there.

Yep that's how it seems, that the suspension setup is inherently deficient from the factory. I've had cars with overdue alignments before, however this doesn't feel as simple as that. I will get a new alignment anyway just to see, but I think It's best I move over to an aftermarket coilover system soon. I'm quite surprised I didn't see more of this complaint when I watched and read a million reviews of the car before I bought it.

The car feels fine when you drive it about the speed limit and maybe even a little more than that, but once you start getting near the limit, it is underwhelming handling-wise for being an M to be honest.

[chris719]

It's hard to say because it depends on your frame of reference. I will say that my M2C does not feel light at all getting out of a light car like a 3000 lb FWD car and I assume E36 is similar in weight. It also felt like stock it has more body roll than my old Z4M. That said, I would not say it felt understeery at all to me. It is much more confidence inspiring than the Z4M. I last drove a modified E36 in 2005 so it's really hard to compare. That car was light and stable but it had coilovers and was really dialed in. I have to think there is something going on with your car but who knows. Maybe you can let another owner drive it or vice-versa at a meet etc.

[///M TOWN]

Originally Posted by inlin36

The tires are brand new, they were replaced a month before I bought the car. However, I am unsure if it was aligned after that tire installation occurred. I will get an alignment next week and see if that fixes anything. Thanks.

What tires and sizes are you running?

[OG Shark]

Originally Posted by inlin36

Yep that's how it seems, that the suspension setup is inherently deficient from the factory. I've had cars with overdue alignments before, however this doesn't feel as simple as that. I will get a new alignment anyway just to see, but I think It's best I move over to an aftermarket coilover system soon. I'm quite surprised I didn't see more of this complaint when I watched and read a million reviews of the car before I bought it.

The car feels fine when you drive it about the speed limit and maybe even a little more than that, but once you start getting near the limit, it is underwhelming handling-wise for being an M to be honest.

This is the biggest knock on the platform imo and the reason we started developing our Nitron kits. At a certain point you just cannot get past being undersprung when pushing it. And increasing the rates with the stock valving creates a whole new set of undesirable characteristics. It's a shame that a car with such potential needs this kind of help right out of the box but it does put a good suspension setup as what I feel to be the best money spent on this platform.

[ThreeStripes]

I heard someone with industry knowledge speaking recently to the actual cost OEMs pay for dampers and it’s less than most people spend on lunch. Those kind of constraints leave a lot of room for improvement when you reach for an expensive motorsports grade damper.

[murderspice]

Originally Posted by OG Shark

This is the biggest knock on the platform imo and the reason we started developing our Nitron kits. At a certain point you just cannot get past being undersprung when pushing it. And increasing the rates with the stock valving creates a whole new set of undesirable characteristics. It's a shame that a car with such potential needs this kind of help right out of the box but it does put a good suspension setup as what I feel to be the best money spent on this platform.

Do you feel the same way about street driving?

[OG Shark]

Originally Posted by murderspice

Do you feel the same way about street driving?

Same but with the importance of the characteristics changing at least for me personally. The oem performance is meh but passable but I very rarely push hard on the street. There is room for improvement though in civilized street driving but obviously not as much as when pushing towards 10/10ths on the track (unless of course you are one of those filthy animals hooning all over town ). A spirited drive through the canyons or similar though will quickly show the deficiencies of the stock setup whereas a good aftermarket setup will excel through these areas. Also depending on how aggressive you want to run your alignment you do now have that tool available which can make a huge difference. Of course you can add camber plates or maybe the GTS knuckles to help out the stock setup as an option too but to me that is a band aid on a mortal wound... For me though the importance of ride quality really jumps up on the street. We are all different but for me a proper kit will keep the car more composed and greatly reduce the harshness/crashiness. Depending on the setup the ride will likely be a bit firmer but overall preferable in my opinion.

[10"]

Originally Posted by inlin36

I bought a 29k mile LCI F87 M2 a few months ago and I like the car, but I've very quickly realized it just doesn't feel like it does well in turns.

I am not talking about issues with the steering, but how the actual chassis reacts in corners. It's completely stock and when I push it into any remotely tight turn/curve, the car feels a bit understeery & a lot of body roll/lean for an M car is felt. It's really unsettled and not confidence inspiring.

I have an E36 on Bilstein B12's that flows through the same exact corners like a breeze. Is this normal for stock M2's? I know they're heavier, but not that heavy. Maybe something is wrong with my specific car if nobody can relate to this, but it doesn't seem that way. I haven't located any issues plus the car was PPIed before I bought it.

At this point the best modification you can do is DRIVE IT MORE. Every car has different dynamics just because the car understeered the way you drove it doesn’t mean the problem is with the car—-more likely than not it is driver input.

[///MPhatic]

Originally Posted by OG Shark

Need to keep in mind the suspension philosophy that BMW went with on these cars - undersprung and overdampened. They run really soft springs to provide better ride quality but then have to use the dampers to help compensate for the lack of spring rate to control the body. This creates the harshness or crashiness a lot of people report with the F87 while also not being the best at controlling the lean.

This should be a sticky at the top of the Suspension forum.

[Neusser]

Originally Posted by OG Shark

Need to keep in mind the suspension philosophy that BMW went with on these cars - undersprung and overdampened. They run really soft springs to provide better ride quality but then have to use the dampers to help compensate for the lack of spring rate to control the body. This creates the harshness or crashiness a lot of people report with the F87 while also not being the best at controlling the lean. This could be a big part of the issue. Also need to check the alignment and make sure all is sorted properly there.

In my experience, many stock BMWs are underdamped, particularly on rebound.

Once the dampers are changed to something stiffer, the handling is more or less optimal for the road.

Never had issues with the stock sport springs.

[asiflicious]

Sometimes I wonder if my car has stock suspension or something else because I’ve found that my M2 is actually very comfortable and nowhere near as stiff or harsh riding as people always say M2s are 😅 way more comfortable than my 135i was and maybe even slightly more comfortable than my E90 328i was/is