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      01-16-2021, 11:21 AM   #1
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Why did BMW decide to use n55 instead of B58 for the M2? Which one has more tuning potential?
Is it possible to fit a DCT into my 2019 M240i xDrive?
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      01-16-2021, 11:23 AM   #2
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The b58 has way more tuning potential. It's also a close deck block, flows more fuel.

I was really close to buying a Supra just for the b58. But I will only drive manual cars.
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      01-16-2021, 01:36 PM   #3
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Yes it's definitely possible

The B58 is absolutely a much better engine

I knew this when I bought my OGM2 but I pulled the trigger anyways

I have no doubt the lovely B58 will be in the second generation M2, and least in the base car
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      01-16-2021, 02:04 PM   #4
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I have no doubt the lovely B58 will be in the second generation M2, and least in the base car[/QUOTE]

The Twin Turbo S58 will be in the G87 on the Supra/Z4 chassis...
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      01-16-2021, 02:58 PM   #5
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So why did BMW decide to put a worse engine into the big brother?
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      01-16-2021, 03:45 PM   #6
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The Twin Turbo S58 will be in the G87 on the Supra/Z4 chassis...
I can still see BMW using the B58 for the base M2

Nothing is for curtain in this world currently
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      01-16-2021, 03:58 PM   #7
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What you forgot is that the B58 wasn’t used until the 2016 models. All the M2 test vehicles had N55s and were seen as early as 2015. So the B58 wasn’t really an option for the 2016 M2.
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      01-16-2021, 04:15 PM   #8
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Fitting a dct on the b58 is absolutely not going to be worth it if it's even possible, as far as I know there was never a b58 fitted with a dct from bmw or toyota(lol). Yes it's a superior transmission but for how much it will cost you get the m2c and get a s55 engine
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      01-16-2021, 04:16 PM   #9
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I do not care what motor the g87 will have if it looks as hideous as the g8x lol
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      01-16-2021, 04:24 PM   #10
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I do not care what motor the g87 will have if it looks as hideous as the g8x lol
Oh for sure
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      01-16-2021, 04:50 PM   #11
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I do not care what motor the g87 will have if it looks as hideous as the g8x lol
The new 2 series? Gosh it's ugly as hell!!! Those headlights omg.
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      01-16-2021, 04:58 PM   #12
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So why did BMW decide to put a worse engine into the big brother?
Because when the M2 was introduced the B58 was yet not available.
So they M-fied the tried and true N55 with enhancements and dropped it in the M2, and in that iteration also pushed the N55 to it's max.

By the time the B58 was going in the M240i, it became the M2C that was getting the S55.
One of the major reasons to sunset the last iteration of the N55 in the M2 and replace with S55, was due to new emission regs in EU.
The N55 was not going to meet the new rules, which forced BMW to consider the S55 and also forced a redesign of the front end.
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      01-16-2021, 09:30 PM   #13
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One of the major reasons to sunset the last iteration of the N55 in the M2 and replace with S55, was due to new emission regs in EU.
The N55 was not going to meet the new rules, which forced BMW to consider the S55 and also forced a redesign of the front end.
If I’m being honest, this is one of my favorite things about the M2 Competition. It’s not every day that emission regulations force a company to add 40 horsepower and another 600 rpms to a cars redline. Generally, it’s the opposite.

Every good hero (car) needs a good origin story and the M2 comp definitely has one. Even if it will always sound worse than the OG....
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      01-16-2021, 11:35 PM   #14
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by OG///M View Post
One of the major reasons to sunset the last iteration of the N55 in the M2 and replace with S55, was due to new emission regs in EU.
The N55 was not going to meet the new rules, which forced BMW to consider the S55 and also forced a redesign of the front end.
If I'm being honest, this is one of my favorite things about the M2 Competition. It's not every day that emission regulations force a company to add 40 horsepower and another 600 rpms to a cars redline. Generally, it's the opposite.

Every good hero (car) needs a good origin story and the M2 comp definitely has one. Even if it will always sound worse than the OG....
Both came out my2016. This decision still baffles me. B58 with dct would have been a sick car.
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      01-17-2021, 01:38 AM   #15
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Both came out my2016. This decision still baffles me. B58 with dct would have been a sick car.
The answer is probably DCT. Since there was no firmware and no testing for B58 + DCT, even if it bolts up, they either had to switch to the ZF8 or keep DCT and use S55. They chose S55 and DCT. I think stock S55 and DCT are better for track use and fit the character of the car a bit more.
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      01-17-2021, 05:05 AM   #16
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Both came out my2016. This decision still baffles me. B58 with dct would have been a sick car.
The answer is probably DCT. Since there was no firmware and no testing for B58 + DCT, even if it bolts up, they either had to switch to the ZF8 or keep DCT and use S55. They chose S55 and DCT. I think stock S55 and DCT are better for track use and fit the character of the car a bit more.
It's has mostly to do with stability management

BMW spends countless hours data logging and testing each platform and programs each cars stability management accordingly

And additionally each major configuration has to be crash tested as well and that takes a shit ton of money as I'm sure we can all imagine without question
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      01-17-2021, 08:22 AM   #17
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lixiang7349 View Post
Both came out my2016. This decision still baffles me. B58 with dct would have been a sick car.
The answer is probably DCT. Since there was no firmware and no testing for B58 + DCT, even if it bolts up, they either had to switch to the ZF8 or keep DCT and use S55. They chose S55 and DCT. I think stock S55 and DCT are better for track use and fit the character of the car a bit more.
Exactly this. Why would you spend much R&D dollar to match a new engine with a defunct gearbox, just for one model? Makes no sense.

The ZF8 is not to be underestimated, it really does give maximum performance with only a little trade off in 'race car' feel. It really is a winner.
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      01-17-2021, 09:44 AM   #18
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris719 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by lixiang7349 View Post
Both came out my2016. This decision still baffles me. B58 with dct would have been a sick car.
The answer is probably DCT. Since there was no firmware and no testing for B58 + DCT, even if it bolts up, they either had to switch to the ZF8 or keep DCT and use S55. They chose S55 and DCT. I think stock S55 and DCT are better for track use and fit the character of the car a bit more.
Exactly this. Why would you spend much R&D dollar to match a new engine with a defunct gearbox, just for one model? Makes no sense.

The ZF8 is not to be underestimated, it really does give maximum performance with only a little trade off in 'race car' feel. It really is a winner.
I'm a three-leg aficionado 'till the end but objectively speaking, I keep telling folks what a hoot the ZF8 is to command.

I would say it's very much comparable to a DCT, minus the added cost and lurchyness.

It's one of those don't know it until you try it kind of transmission and should not be dismissed outright by mere labels and preconceived notions.
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      01-17-2021, 09:48 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by NISFAN View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by chris719 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by lixiang7349 View Post
Both came out my2016. This decision still baffles me. B58 with dct would have been a sick car.
The answer is probably DCT. Since there was no firmware and no testing for B58 + DCT, even if it bolts up, they either had to switch to the ZF8 or keep DCT and use S55. They chose S55 and DCT. I think stock S55 and DCT are better for track use and fit the character of the car a bit more.
Exactly this. Why would you spend much R&D dollar to match a new engine with a defunct gearbox, just for one model? Makes no sense.

The ZF8 is not to be underestimated, it really does give maximum performance with only a little trade off in 'race car' feel. It really is a winner.
I'm a three-leg aficionado 'till the end but objectively speaking, I keep telling folks what a hoot the ZF8 is to command.

I would say it's very much comparable to a DCT, minus the added cost and lurchyness.

It's one of those don't know it until you try it kind of transmission and should not be dismissed outright by mere labels and preconceived notions.
My AMG is dct and I like its shift way more than my 2019 M240i xDrive. Driven M2 as well. Love the shift.
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      01-17-2021, 10:34 AM   #20
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by NISFAN View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by chris719 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by lixiang7349 View Post
Both came out my2016. This decision still baffles me. B58 with dct would have been a sick car.
The answer is probably DCT. Since there was no firmware and no testing for B58 + DCT, even if it bolts up, they either had to switch to the ZF8 or keep DCT and use S55. They chose S55 and DCT. I think stock S55 and DCT are better for track use and fit the character of the car a bit more.
Exactly this. Why would you spend much R&D dollar to match a new engine with a defunct gearbox, just for one model? Makes no sense.

The ZF8 is not to be underestimated, it really does give maximum performance with only a little trade off in 'race car' feel. It really is a winner.
I'm a three-leg aficionado 'till the end but objectively speaking, I keep telling folks what a hoot the ZF8 is to command.

I would say it's very much comparable to a DCT, minus the added cost and lurchyness.

It's one of those don't know it until you try it kind of transmission and should not be dismissed outright by mere labels and preconceived notions.
My AMG is dct and I like its shift way more than my 2019 M240i xDrive. Driven M2 as well. Love the shift.
Fair enough but keep in mind, each ZF8 is programmed to operate in slightly different manner and unique personality from each other.

BMW has big shoes to fill, so I'm sure they'll fine-tune the M variant of the of the ZF8 to mimic or exceed the performance that of the DCT, of which it preceded.

All I'm saying is before everyone laments the loss of the dual clutch tranny, at least reserve judgement until we see what BMW brings to table, to compensate of the new version of this gearbox.


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      01-17-2021, 12:07 PM   #21
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by lixiang7349 View Post
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Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
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Originally Posted by chris719 View Post
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Originally Posted by lixiang7349 View Post
Both came out my2016. This decision still baffles me. B58 with dct would have been a sick car.
The answer is probably DCT. Since there was no firmware and no testing for B58 + DCT, even if it bolts up, they either had to switch to the ZF8 or keep DCT and use S55. They chose S55 and DCT. I think stock S55 and DCT are better for track use and fit the character of the car a bit more.
Exactly this. Why would you spend much R&D dollar to match a new engine with a defunct gearbox, just for one model? Makes no sense.

The ZF8 is not to be underestimated, it really does give maximum performance with only a little trade off in 'race car' feel. It really is a winner.
I'm a three-leg aficionado 'till the end but objectively speaking, I keep telling folks what a hoot the ZF8 is to command.

I would say it's very much comparable to a DCT, minus the added cost and lurchyness.

It's one of those don't know it until you try it kind of transmission and should not be dismissed outright by mere labels and preconceived notions.
My AMG is dct and I like its shift way more than my 2019 M240i xDrive. Driven M2 as well. Love the shift.
Fair enough but keep in mind, each ZF8 is programmed to operate in slightly different manner and unique personality from each other.

BMW has big shoes to fill, so I'm sure they'll fine-tune the M variant of the of the ZF8 to mimic or exceed the performance that of the DCT, of which it preceded.

All I'm saying is before everyone laments the loss of the dual clutch tranny, at least reserve judgement until we see what BMW brings to table, to compensate of the new version of this gearbox.


.
The only thing that I do not like my eight speed automatic is that it throws the car forward right before shifting and I don't like that jerkiness.
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      01-17-2021, 12:37 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M TOWN View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by SEAT TIME RULES View Post
The Twin Turbo S58 will be in the G87 on the Supra/Z4 chassis...
I can still see BMW using the B58 for the base M2

Nothing is for curtain in this world currently
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Originally Posted by ///M TOWN View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by SEAT TIME RULES View Post
The Twin Turbo S58 will be in the G87 on the Supra/Z4 chassis...
I can still see BMW using the B58 for the base M2

Nothing is for curtain in this world currently
There never was a "Base M2" . M2 ran the N55 until 2018, and in 2019 they switched to S55 , the N55 and S55 were never ran simultaneously in the F87, so I don't expect 2 different motors ran in the new chassis at the same time
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