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      10-07-2020, 09:13 AM   #23
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LBB wasn't an M exclusive color though. It was also available on the X4 and was actually the launch color for the F26 X4 M40i.
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      10-07-2020, 09:42 AM   #24
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It's not hard to spec out an M2C to be knocking on the door of an M2CS pretty quickly. My manual M2C list price was $74k, after the gold M763 wheels it was 80K. That didn't include the M performance suspension which was close to another $5k after install/alignment. Now you have a car within spitting distance of an M2CS. It has nicer rear exhaust tips but that's about it. Everything else on the CS is just better/cooler/more special.

If you want a CS get a CS. Trying to make a Comp equivalent is a fools errand.
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      10-07-2020, 11:43 AM   #25
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It's funny, because it's not like he didn't like the car (other than the color lol .. and even that he admired in the shade). He devoted the most time to how good the handling and ride were. Emphasized improved steering (first review where I saw that emphasized) among all the other virtues. His conclusion really was a non sequitur. By his own tally it would cost as much to try to reinvent the CS from a Comp. I took away he would enjoy the upgrading process itself, and the uniqueness of the result, and be able to sequence it in a way that worked financially and temporally. Not that the Comp route was truly a sound value proposition (even though he stated as much).

If I were to summarize just about every other review of the CS, "the whole is greater than the sum of the parts." This is the key point that this reviewer would not accept.
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      10-07-2020, 02:32 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by MR. View Post
Did you watch mine?



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      10-07-2020, 05:33 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GimmeanM View Post
Agree with both of you, it was weird. I think his true personal opinion is hidden between the lines.
I tend to agree with this comment. He has a Comp which he's spent out on and healthily modified, so I think it somewhat unexpectedly shocked him how far off his own car still is in terms of handling and engine performance compared to the CS.

It should be clear to anyone now (including Artemis, who is surely too educated and knowledgable to still be flying this flag) that an M2 Comp with MPerformance parts will never get close to being a CS. The sum of all the bespoke CS (and non MPerformance branded) parts/materials together with the handling, engine and power delivery improvements easily place the CS on a higher level.

Chris Harris and the Top Gear team just placed it 3rd in their annual 'best performance car' awards behind the 911 Turbo and Ferrari F8 Tributo. The Comp (great car that it is - I've owned one for two years) went out in the first round of last years competition.

If, like many think, it is indeed just the MPerformance parts that have made the difference this year then I suggest we all better go and buy them before they sell out fast!

Also, be fair to MR he does live in a country where the CS is somewhat ridiculously priced at €108K. He did say if it was positioned in the c€85-€90k bracket (like a lot of other EU markets, including the UK) then it would be more of a one way 'take my money conversation'.

It's a special little car (with 4 seats) and I think the people that know, know and those that don't, don't.
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      10-07-2020, 05:56 PM   #28
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I like how it seems that the CS shines in the *drive it like you stole it." Mentality. I bought it to beat on.
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      10-07-2020, 10:36 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BishUK View Post
It should be clear to anyone now (including Artemis, who is surely too educated and knowledgable to still be flying this flag) that an M2 Comp with MPerformance parts will never get close to being a CS. The sum of all the bespoke CS (and non MPerformance branded) parts/materials together with the handling, engine and power delivery improvements easily place the CS on a higher level.
See for example this comment posted in November 2019:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Some points to note:
  • Also in the US it should be possible to negotiate a discount on an M2C. MSRP is, as it says, 'suggested'. So the base figure for calculation is normally lower than MSRP. However, it will be harder to negotiate a discount on an M2 CS than on an M2C (more in the US than in Europe). Although it's bad stereotyping, you Americans easily get infatuated by the words "limited edition", even if it's just a 'Marketing 101' trick in full effect: create artificial scarcity to boost the hype and price (see here and here).
  • Under the M2 CS lookalike scenario: except for the roof, the original replaced parts aren't sent to the scrapyard. For example a brandnew set of 788M wheels that got replaced by 763M wheels, ain't worth $0. You can recoup a small part of the price of the new parts by parting out the existing replaced ones, or keep those as spare parts for future purposes (retrofitting at resale date + parting out the aftermarkter/new parts).
  • Mimicking an M2 CS will never get you an M2 CS - it will rather get you a questionable "M2 CS wannabe" status. But to each his own. Lots of petrolheads add parts because they like those, or consider those functional, rather than for mimicking a higher tier car in the car pecking order.
  • Several 'M2 CS only' parts are new and no 'M Performance Parts'. For example, it would surprise me if the 763M wheels on the M2 CS would feature "M Performance" stamps. I guess they don't. And more generally speaking, in principle, 'M2 CS only' parts will only be made available by BMW to M2 CS customers. Non-M2 CS owners either need to browse through the M Performance back catalogue, or need to venture around in the after market circuit, or ask an M2 CS friend a favor, or - horresco referens & left to your own devices as regards risks - buy questionable cheapo replicas or knock-offs.
August 2020:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Of course, the M2 CS and M2C are a total package, more than the sum of their parts. Figures are figures and emotions are emotions. Figures can evoke emotions and vice versa: for example what does it take for each of us in work efforts to collect the money for a car. For some, money is no issue, for others, it is an issue.
For my mindset about the M2 CS reflected by 10 posts from 2019: see here.
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      10-08-2020, 05:10 PM   #30
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Interesting read, thanks for the comments on the video! I always take all in either it being negative or positive. This is what I felt about the car and therefore shared it. Others might have other opinions.

With regards to the roof, I can say the following that it is major "f*** up" by BMW M. I got info about the roof from an insider and what I heard was like #triplefacepalm

Just to summarize the final outcome... The roof is painted and tinted to disguise errors you can see from a distance. They do this three or four times and sand it down by hand after every layer of clear coat just to make sure you don't notice it.

Yep, let that sink in... The roof was not meant to be like this and everyone knows it in Garching.

MR
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      10-08-2020, 05:48 PM   #31
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I haven't spotted any defects in the CF pattern on my roof. I don't think all the cars are affected.
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      10-08-2020, 05:55 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MR. View Post
Interesting read, thanks for the comments on the video! I always take all in either it being negative or positive. This is what I felt about the car and therefore shared it. Others might have other opinions.
With regards to the roof, I can say the following that it is major "f*** up" by BMW M. I got info about the roof from an insider and what I heard was like #triplefacepalmJust to summarize the final outcome... The roof is painted and tinted to disguise errors you can see from a distance. They do this three or four times and sand it down by hand after every layer of clear coat just to make sure you don't notice it.
Yep, let that sink in... The roof was not meant to be like this and everyone knows it in Garching.
MR
But you can stand on it to celebrate a victory.

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      10-08-2020, 05:59 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MR. View Post
Interesting read, thanks for the comments on the video! I always take all in either it being negative or positive. This is what I felt about the car and therefore shared it. Others might have other opinions.

With regards to the roof, I can say the following that it is major "f*** up" by BMW M. I got info about the roof from an insider and what I heard was like #triplefacepalm

Just to summarize the final outcome... The roof is painted and tinted to disguise errors you can see from a distance. They do this three or four times and sand it down by hand after every layer of clear coat just to make sure you don't notice it.

Yep, let that sink in... The roof was not meant to be like this and everyone knows it in Garching.

MR
You have previously interviewed the M guys.Did you ask them why the M2 CS doesn’t have the same carbon fiber roof as the F80 and F82?
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      10-08-2020, 06:05 PM   #34
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Yeah, those roof images look like the checkered flag is waving! (or, melting...)
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      10-08-2020, 06:08 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nantucket View Post
You have previously interviewed the M guys.Did you ask them why the M2 CS doesn’t have the same carbon fiber roof as the F80 and F82?
Improved rigidity.

September 2019:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
If you refer to weight (apart from improved braking endurance and heat management) of M-CCB: the article mentions 43 kg weight difference between the tested cars, of which -21.7 kg because of M-CCB, -7.5 kg because of CFRP bonnet/hood and -4 kg because of CFRP roof (Sandwich-structured composite: "you can stand on the new roof - you cannot stand on the previous one").
Name:  M2_CS_Roof.jpg
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Size:  67.8 KB
(source: here)
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      10-08-2020, 07:38 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MR. View Post
Interesting read, thanks for the comments on the video! I always take all in either it being negative or positive. This is what I felt about the car and therefore shared it. Others might have other opinions.

With regards to the roof, I can say the following that it is major "f*** up" by BMW M. I got info about the roof from an insider and what I heard was like #triplefacepalm

Just to summarize the final outcome... The roof is painted and tinted to disguise errors you can see from a distance. They do this three or four times and sand it down by hand after every layer of clear coat just to make sure you don't notice it.

Yep, let that sink in... The roof was not meant to be like this and everyone knows it in Garching.

MR
Terrible. Just not acceptable for a 90k car after taxes. Perhaps these imperfections will further add to the mystique around this car- seen weirder things happen, but for me.. inexcusable- I don’t keep carbon bits with those imperfections aftermarket- why would I want it in my 90k car from OEM? Hopefully it’s not wide spread

Last edited by gemini.m3; 10-08-2020 at 07:43 PM..
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      10-08-2020, 08:30 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MR. View Post
Interesting read, thanks for the comments on the video! I always take all in either it being negative or positive. This is what I felt about the car and therefore shared it. Others might have other opinions.

With regards to the roof, I can say the following that it is major "f*** up" by BMW M. I got info about the roof from an insider and what I heard was like #triplefacepalm

Just to summarize the final outcome... The roof is painted and tinted to disguise errors you can see from a distance. They do this three or four times and sand it down by hand after every layer of clear coat just to make sure you don't notice it.

Yep, let that sink in... The roof was not meant to be like this and everyone knows it in Garching.

MR
I'm captivated, can you explain more?
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      10-08-2020, 09:16 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cncmastr View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by MR. View Post
Interesting read, thanks for the comments on the video! I always take all in either it being negative or positive. This is what I felt about the car and therefore shared it. Others might have other opinions.

With regards to the roof, I can say the following that it is major "f*** up" by BMW M. I got info about the roof from an insider and what I heard was like #triplefacepalm

Just to summarize the final outcome... The roof is painted and tinted to disguise errors you can see from a distance. They do this three or four times and sand it down by hand after every layer of clear coat just to make sure you don't notice it.

Yep, let that sink in... The roof was not meant to be like this and everyone knows it in Garching.

MR
I'm captivated, can you explain more?
It sounds like they're partially handmade to be able to introduce this level of irregularity?
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      10-09-2020, 02:39 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nantucket View Post
You have previously interviewed the M guys.Did you ask them why the M2 CS doesn’t have the same carbon fiber roof as the F80 and F82?
Yep, this improved rigidity and was a better option according them, but clearly they did not explain the whole story. With the additional information I can confirm no other M car will have this roof. Nobody wants to take the risk of dealing with a fail again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cncmastr View Post
I'm captivated, can you explain more?
Nothing more than that the solution for those problems came too late to homologate the car and have it in time ready for market release. Europe would have missed out too much on the CS due to the production stop in September.

Anyhow, there are tons of CS cars unsold here in Europe. One person came to me and said he had access to a fair bunch parked in a warehouse produced during Corona time earlier this year, but impossible to sell. Just too expensive, nobody wants one.

They are stuck with them similar to what we saw with M3 and M4 CS models which were piled up in dealer storages, and only sold after months and years accompanied by immense discounts of up to 35 percent. And that is still happening up to now!! Even more so, because dealers want to get rid of their M3's and M4's because the new one is arriving in March. So for those of you who are destined on getting themselves a M2 CS, wait, just wait, really just wait…

In Europe, you will find delivery mileage cars by the end of this year or maybe even in 2021, which dealers will offer you at extremely favorable price tags just to get rid of them in a market where car sales have taken a hit and will continue to struggle in the years to come.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimjamz View Post
It sounds like they're partially handmade to be able to introduce this level of irregularity?
They are partly hand made to deal with the irregularity. The production process was initially wrong, but the fix came too late. So all the cars I have seen so far have the problem in the roof, simply because the fix could not be introduced anymore in time. Now it needs handwork to deal with it. They tint it to give you the idea it is so bad. #facepalm

MR

Last edited by MR.; 10-09-2020 at 02:45 AM..
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      10-09-2020, 11:01 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MR. View Post
Anyhow, there are tons of CS cars unsold here in Europe. One person came to me and said he had access to a fair bunch parked in a warehouse produced during Corona time earlier this year, but impossible to sell. Just too expensive, nobody wants one.
They are stuck with them similar to what we saw with M3 and M4 CS models which were piled up in dealer storages, and only sold after months and years accompanied by immense discounts of up to 35 percent. And that is still happening up to now!! Even more so, because dealers want to get rid of their M3's and M4's because the new one is arriving in March. So for those of you who are destined on getting themselves a M2 CS, wait, just wait, really just wait…
In Europe, you will find delivery mileage cars by the end of this year or maybe even in 2021, which dealers will offer you at extremely favorable price tags just to get rid of them in a market where car sales have taken a hit and will continue to struggle in the years to come.
The €$ learning curve is kinda slow for BMW.

Two posts from Autumn 2019:
Quote:
Originally Posted by kepler View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
In CS Price Land, things are ///Mbitious, rather than logic.
100% this. How would the M4 GTS, M4 CS and M3 CS have been received if they had been appropriately priced? I hope BMW will learn from its previous mistakes, but it shouldn't take this many errors to see the light.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
My conclusion: IMHO BMW has to buckle up for a reality-check. The M2 CS demographic may be limited to die-hard enthusiasts and/or wealthy collectors. If the M2 CS price point ignores the current market situation, M2 CS cars will by no means sell as 1M hot cakes in Europe, except if (substantial) discounts are awarded. US sales could fare well (at the risk of stereotyping, sorry: IMHO US enthusiasts attach more attention to the 'limited edition' or 'collector's item' moniker, than European enthusiasts). It wouldn't surprise me if lots of dealers will only order an M2 CS if they got a signed order by a customer. It's fair to think that dealers dislike the idea of yet another expensive car (alike M4 GTS, M4 CS or M3 CS) only getting looks, instead of deals, inside their showroom. Production increase ? I don't think so. Some European allocations converted into US allocations ? Maybe.
Just my 2 cents. Of course the future could prove me wrong.
October 2020 - Top Gear:

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      10-09-2020, 12:01 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MR. View Post
Yep, this improved rigidity and was a better option according them, but clearly they did not explain the whole story. With the additional information I can confirm no other M car will have this roof. Nobody wants to take the risk of dealing with a fail again.



Nothing more than that the solution for those problems came too late to homologate the car and have it in time ready for market release. Europe would have missed out too much on the CS due to the production stop in September.

Anyhow, there are tons of CS cars unsold here in Europe. One person came to me and said he had access to a fair bunch parked in a warehouse produced during Corona time earlier this year, but impossible to sell. Just too expensive, nobody wants one.

They are stuck with them similar to what we saw with M3 and M4 CS models which were piled up in dealer storages, and only sold after months and years accompanied by immense discounts of up to 35 percent. And that is still happening up to now!! Even more so, because dealers want to get rid of their M3's and M4's because the new one is arriving in March. So for those of you who are destined on getting themselves a M2 CS, wait, just wait, really just wait…

In Europe, you will find delivery mileage cars by the end of this year or maybe even in 2021, which dealers will offer you at extremely favorable price tags just to get rid of them in a market where car sales have taken a hit and will continue to struggle in the years to come.



They are partly hand made to deal with the irregularity. The production process was initially wrong, but the fix came too late. So all the cars I have seen so far have the problem in the roof, simply because the fix could not be introduced anymore in time. Now it needs handwork to deal with it. They tint it to give you the idea it is so bad. #facepalm

MR
This. The carbon issue and the cars being available in Europe is why I finally decided to pull out for a 2nd and final time. I won’t accept a 90k car with carbon imperfections at that level- hopefully they’ve addressed it enough so the individuals that got earlier build weeks are satisfied with their purchase.

2nd- cars being available overseas and taking discounts is also why. Listen; if you want to secure that perfect spec then go for it. If I’m lucky enough to find a misano blue with manual in a few months on even a 5 or ten percent discount, I’d take it. But I couldn’t do msrp and taxes and then hear about such QC issues. If it was happening to paint everyone would be complaining.

This car at msrp was a gamble- if you just wanted it without question then more power to you- but I couldn’t do it. If I was purchasing this vehicle cash to add to my fleet sure, but as a primary vehicle on a finance how well the car performs in 3 - 5 years in the used market will dictate how long you have to keep the car and whether or not you’re even upside down on a finance.

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      10-09-2020, 10:15 PM   #42
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Blah blah blah. Can't wait until mine gets here in January.
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      10-09-2020, 11:41 PM   #43
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Blah blah blah. Can't wait until mine gets here in January.

Enjoy it man, we all got our opinions - can't wait to see you share some pics!
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      10-10-2020, 12:14 AM   #44
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I'll say it again...IMO, either accept the M2C for what it is or go for the M2CS. Once you are trying to replicate the CS, then that is car you want and it will be hard for you to be happy with it. ("See, it's basically a CS, but here's what I did...). I am completely at peace with my M2C for DD activities and look forward to perhaps seeing a CS on the road and giving the owner a thumbs up!
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