[ChrisK]

Originally Posted by CSBM5

If BMW expects 33% or more M2C to be sold with sunroofs, then it must be included in the official US weight specification.

Ok, this is starting to make sense. For example - I'm sure the take rate for DCT is far above 33%.

This would explain how the US car got heavier.

[Spa2k]

Originally Posted by CSBM5

No, the legally requied US figures must be for the car must include any option expected to be in 33% or more of vehicles sold. In addition, the car must be full capacity for fuel, oil, and coolant.

Correct, but last I saw the number was closer to 25%. As with the brakes, we won’t know until BMW speaks.

[M-Pilot]

Originally Posted by ChrisK

Ok, this is starting to make sense. For example - I'm sure the take rate for DCT is far above 33%.

This would explain how the US car got heavier.

The spec states DCT and 6MT figures separately so even if the DCT take rate is over %33, we cannot just say 3600lbs includes DCT as well. However, that statement is true for the rest of the options such as moonroof.

[Spa2k]

The specs for DCT and 6MT equipped models are listed separately, as they are for CAFE testing too.

Another consideration is the Executive Package, which certainly had a take rate of more than 50 percent for 2018. Now some of those parts are included in the “base” M2C.

And, BTW, the sunroof was not available until the 2018 LCI.

[ChrisK]

Originally Posted by cntzl

The spec states DCT and 6MT figures separately so even if the DCT take rate is over %33, we cannot just say 3600lbs includes DCT as well. However, that statement is true for the rest of the options such as moonroof.

Yes I know the MT/DCT numbers are separate. I meant that it makes sense the sunroof could be in the US numbers.

[M-Pilot]

Originally Posted by Spa2k

The specs for DCT and 6MT equipped models are listed separately, as they are for CAFE testing too.

Another consideration is the Executive Package, which certainly had a take rate of more than 50 percent for 2018. Now some of those parts are included in the “base” M2C.

And, BTW, the sunroof was not available until the 2018 LCI.

That actually tells us a lot as I mentioned in my previous posts. BMWUSA released weight figures of 3450lbs (6MT) and 3505lbs(DCT) in 2016 when M2 was first offered in the US. Since moonroof wasn't available up until LCI, teh US curb weight of the original M2 doesn't factor in the moonroof. If BMWUSA anticipates 33% or more adoption rate for the moonroof, it means 3600lbs (6MT) weight spec includes ~50lbs for the moonroof as well. In other words, the US spec M2C might be 100lbs (instead of 150lbs) heavier than the original M2.

[seis-speed]

BMWusa.com has the 6MT weighing more than the DCT for 2018 specs? They obviously made a mistake, but 2018 specs are seen below.

Exterior Dimensions

LENGTH / WIDTH / HEIGHT (in)
176.2 / 73.0 / 55.5

CURB WEIGHT – MANUAL TRANSMISSION (lbs)
3505

CURB WEIGHT – AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION (lbs)
3450

WEIGHT DISTRIBUTION, FRONT/REAR – MANUAL TRANSMISSION (%)
51.9 / 48.1

WEIGHT DISTRIBUTION, FRONT/REAR – AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION (%)
51.4 / 48.6

GROUND CLEARANCE (in)
4.8

https://www.bmwusa.com/vehicles/m-mo...fications.html

[boostm3]

Originally Posted by seis-speed

BMWusa.com has the 6MT weighing more than the DCT for 2018 specs? They obviously made a mistake, but 2018 specs are easily attainable for US market.

Exterior Dimensions

LENGTH / WIDTH / HEIGHT (in)
176.2 / 73.0 / 55.5

CURB WEIGHT – MANUAL TRANSMISSION (lbs)
3505

CURB WEIGHT – AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION (lbs)
3450

WEIGHT DISTRIBUTION, FRONT/REAR – MANUAL TRANSMISSION (%)
51.9 / 48.1

WEIGHT DISTRIBUTION, FRONT/REAR – AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION (%)
51.4 / 48.6

GROUND CLEARANCE (in)
4.8

Manual transmission heavier than DCT????

[Spa2k]

Originally Posted by cntzl

That actually tells us a lot as I mentioned in my previous posts. BMWUSA released weight figures of 3450lbs (6MT) and 3505lbs(DCT) in 2016 when M2 was first offered in the US. Since moonroof wasn't available up until LCI, teh US curb weight of the original M2 doesn't factor in the moonroof. If BMWUSA anticipates 33% or more adoption rate for the moonroof, it means 3600lbs (6MT) weight spec includes ~50lbs for the moonroof as well. In other words, the US spec M2C might be 100lbs (instead of 150lbs) heavier than the original M2.

The bottom line is that we're just going to drive ourselves crazy trying to guess what BMW is going to do ... 25 lbs. here, 50 lbs. there ... who really knows? The final documents may not get filed for a month or two. My LCI was one of the first ones built, and it was held somewhere along the way for days until the appropriate EPA documents were approved.

[Tag]

Originally Posted by seis-speed

BMWusa.com has the 6MT weighing more than the DCT for 2018 specs? They obviously made a mistake, but 2018 specs are easily attainable for US market.

Exterior Dimensions

LENGTH / WIDTH / HEIGHT (in)
176.2 / 73.0 / 55.5

CURB WEIGHT – MANUAL TRANSMISSION (lbs)
3505

CURB WEIGHT – AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION (lbs)
3450

WEIGHT DISTRIBUTION, FRONT/REAR – MANUAL TRANSMISSION (%)
51.9 / 48.1

WEIGHT DISTRIBUTION, FRONT/REAR – AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION (%)
51.4 / 48.6

GROUND CLEARANCE (in)
4.8

https://www.bmwusa.com/vehicles/m-mo...fications.html

Been that way for a while, they crossed the MT and DCT numbers. They are always messing things up, like most recently with the Canadian info stating the 437M wheels showed they had one size wider tires than the 788M wheels, literally a copy paste from M3/4 info. They should be ashamed of the amount of errors they consistently churn out. And where the hell is management in this? They should correct existing mistakes and prevent future ones. Pathetic really.

[M-Pilot]

Originally Posted by seis-speed

BMWusa.com has the 6MT weighing more than the DCT for 2018 specs? They obviously made a mistake, but 2018 specs are easily attainable for US market.

Exterior Dimensions

LENGTH / WIDTH / HEIGHT (in)
176.2 / 73.0 / 55.5

CURB WEIGHT – MANUAL TRANSMISSION (lbs)
3505

CURB WEIGHT – AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION (lbs)
3450

WEIGHT DISTRIBUTION, FRONT/REAR – MANUAL TRANSMISSION (%)
51.9 / 48.1

WEIGHT DISTRIBUTION, FRONT/REAR – AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION (%)
51.4 / 48.6

GROUND CLEARANCE (in)
4.8

https://www.bmwusa.com/vehicles/m-mo...fications.html

Yes, they mixed up the DCT and 6MT numbers. Also, these are exactly the same numbers as the ones they released in 2016 when the car first came out. They never made any changes to their spec sheet for MY2018 on their website.

[M-Pilot]

Originally Posted by Spa2k

The bottom line is that we're just going to drive ourselves crazy trying to guess what BMW is going to do ... 25 lbs. here, 50 lbs. there ... who really knows? The final documents may not get filed for a month or two. My LCI was one of the first ones built, and it was held somewhere along the way for days until the appropriate EPA documents were approved.

I agree but as Tag pointed out, it's shame on BMWUSA's end not to clear these things for all their models. I've never seen this many inconsistencies in EU spec sheets. It's always the US spec that has mixed up numbers, inconsistencies etc.

[Spa2k]

Every manufacturer is that way - and has been for decades. If you guys keep focusing on the minutiae that's touched by hundreds or thousands of people along the way, you're going to stroke out before you get to start unbolting the road-hugging weight from your M2Cs.

[Tag]

There's no excuse for a manufacturer to publish incorrect information on their product, it's literally the primary source for everyone in the world to quote as factual information. Mistakes happen, but where are the corrections? Most go unaddressed. The only one that comes to mind recently where BMW actually addressed it was the misprint (misrepresentation) of the N55B30T0 as having a closed deck. BMW ultimately removed the closed deck reference from their websites and elsewhere. I personally believe this was largely in part, because of multiple threads on the subject by members like us questioning if this was actually true which got their attention.

[MR_M2]

Is the curb weight measure without fluids? I found another thread which measured OG M2 DCT on the scales with fluids, 1/2 tank of gas and a 160lb driver: 3609lb

Source: http://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1344984
That's 3609 - 160 = 3449, which is still 56lbs lighter than what BMW claimed.

Of course, 3609 was measured after installing KW CS, Apex wheels and BBK — it could have added weight for all we know.

I guess the bottom line is that we need to have OG M2 and M2C on the scales to find out the true difference in weight — I wouldn't rely on tech spec sheets.

[norMcal]

Originally Posted by chris719

Does it really matter? There are kids with driver's licenses younger than 2001 E46 M3s. It is a great car but the performance in all ways pales in comparison to an M2. No car weighs what they did in 2001. A 2001 Mustang weighed just over 3000 lbs. An M2C will smoke any E46 on the track and won't have it's subframe torn up either. If you get an M2C you will love it I'm sure. If weight is a priority you have to look at Porsche, and even those gained some weight in the past decade.

Yes it does matter, because the M2 was supposed to go back to e46 M3 size and weight and if they added 150 lbs to an already heavier car, than it isn't really true to what it was supposed to be.

Most of what you wrote is true, but I am quite certain you are slightly ignorant to the track performance capabilities of an e46 M3.

The M2C will have gobs more low end torque for sure, but on the track that does not make that much of a difference. Horsepower is only up about 40 from where I am sitting, maybe less, and if it is 400 lbs heavier, then it is negligible. But remember, 400 lbs more for braking and cornering isn't. I smoke plenty of new and faster cars in my e46 M3 and sub frame is just fine.
For the record, this is not my first M, and not my first e46 M3. I've been around for a while and have had newer ones. I went back to this model because it was the best one BMW ever made IMHO. Was hoping the M2C would change that, but am disappointed IF the weight went up that much. But I will hold judgment until I see what a 6mt, no sunroof, low optioned model can come in at.

[M-Pilot]

Originally Posted by MR_M2

Is the curb weight measure without fluids? I found another thread which measured OG M2 DCT on the scales with fluids, 1/2 tank of gas and a 160lb driver: 3609lb

Source: http://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1344984
That's 3609 - 160 = 3449, which is still 56lbs lighter than what BMW claimed.

Of course, 3609 was measured after installing KW CS, Apex wheels and BBK — it could have added weight for all we know.

I guess the bottom line is that we need to have OG M2 and M2C on the scales to find out the true difference in weight — I wouldn't rely on tech spec sheets.

US curb weight includes 100% fuel and other fluids by definition and half a tank of gas in an M2 (6.85 gallons) equals to ~43lbs.

[MiSchnell]

Originally Posted by norMcal

Yes it does matter, because the M2 was supposed to go back to e46 M3 size and weight and if they added 150 lbs to an already heavier car, than it isn't really true to what it was supposed to be.

Most of what you wrote is true, but I am quite certain you are slightly ignorant to the track performance capabilities of an e46 M3.

The M2C will have gobs more low end torque for sure, but on the track that does not make that much of a difference. Horsepower is only up about 40 from where I am sitting, maybe less, and if it is 400 lbs heavier, then it is negligible. But remember, 400 lbs more for braking and cornering isn't. I smoke plenty of new and faster cars in my e46 M3 and sub frame is just fine.
For the record, this is not my first M, and not my first e46 M3. I've been around for a while and have had newer ones. I went back to this model because it was the best one BMW ever made IMHO. Was hoping the M2C would change that, but am disappointed IF the weight went up that much. But I will hold judgment until I see what a 6mt, no sunroof, low optioned model can come in at.

Don't get me wrong, I'm also disappointed they've added weight to an already heavy M2. Thankfully though the tuning potential of this engine is much greater, and I can accept an extra 150lbs if it means having bigger brakes, better cooling, lighter wheels, and a tuned engine putting out 450 to 500 hp/tq.

[norMcal]

Originally Posted by MiSchnell

Don't get me wrong, I'm also disappointed they've added weight to an already heavy M2. Thankfully though the tuning potential of this engine is much greater, and I can accept an extra 150lbs if it means having bigger brakes, better cooling, lighter wheels, and a tuned engine putting out 450 to 500 hp/tq.

Ja das stimmt ;-)

Like I said, I still haven't given up on the M2C. The weight might not be as bad as this thread suggests.

If it was, then I will seriously consider a slightly used N55 M2, and use the $15k savings for all the M Performance parts and bring it down to ~3200 lbs.

[RedCarrot]

Originally Posted by Bluenose-2er

I am sure BMW is concerned about the weight. They were just more concerned about price point. As others have said, if they had gone the other direction, all would be up in arms about the price.

That being said, I really do not get the standard electric seats. That is one piece of low hanging fruit that actually saves on the price point.

I have said this in other threads so I am sure I sound like a broken record to some...

What really grinds my gear and serves as a barometer to BMW's lack of emphasis on weight saving is the non-use of aluminum on the hood, roof and trunk. There are many cars at lower price points - some of which are sold at lower volume than the 2-series - use aluminum on such parts. Some even extend its use to doors. Therefore I can't subscribe to the argument that exercising common weight saving methods would have made the M2 prohibitively more expensive. It's more the case of BWM didn't give enough of a F%~# about light weight from the start, and then try to milk the crap out of owners who want to save the weight that shouldn't have been there to begin with.

Non-structural aluminum parts weigh on par with CF, which are typically half of corresponding steel parts. Case in points:
-M2 steel hood weighs 39.x lbs; MPerf CF version saves ~20 lbs
-Civic steel hood weighs 35.x lbs; aluminum version in TypeR is 17.x lbs
-S2000 OEM aluminum weighs the same as its Mugen CF hood, and lighter than other lesser quality aftermarket CF hoods.

BMW engineers have done a marvelous feat to make the current M2 dances the way it does even at its somewhat porky weight. I would have loved to experienced how much more fun it would have been if it were xx lbs lighter rather than xx faster while 150 lbs heavier. See, I am knocking my current M2 and the M2C on weight so I am not "hating" the M2C out of envy. I am mildly frustrated with BMW bean counters in general.

[MiSchnell]

Please BMW, if you're listening. Use all the steel you'd like on every other vehicle you manufacture. But when it comes to the M2, make it (or a version of it) as light as can be. In the words of your brilliant M2 designer Mr. Hussein Al-Attar, "The BMW M2 has always been the closest thing to what our hardcore fans consider a real BMW".

[M3_WC]

Originally Posted by norMcal

Ja das stimmt ;-)

Like I said, I still haven't given up on the M2C. The weight might not be as bad as this thread suggests.

If it was, then I will seriously consider a slightly used N55 M2, and use the $15k savings for all the M Performance parts and bring it down to ~3200 lbs.

Let’s for argument sake, say they kept the N55 and added an optional Comp pack. The pack added top mount air to water cooling, larger oil coolers, a closed block, larger single turbo to the N55. Along with chassis stiffening via strutbrace and bulkhead bracing. But it added another 100lbs, I’d tick that box instantly. I bet many others would too. I have no doubt the ends will justify the means.