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      10-13-2019, 02:09 AM   #309
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hegge View Post
Someone mentioned Belgium is getting 100 cars. How many is the US getting?
I think in access of 600...

There are 100 for the Benelux region that is NL, BE and Luxembourg.

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      10-13-2019, 06:52 AM   #310
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I think in access of 600...
There are 100 for the Benelux region that is NL, BE and Luxembourg.
MR
BMW Belux = Belgium and Luxembourg = 100 allocations (initially 45).

BMW Group Netherlands = The Netherlands = ??? allocations.
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      10-13-2019, 08:34 AM   #311
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Oh crap, I thought the US was getting 2,000.
Just 2,000 globally? Dang this WILL be a limited run.
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      10-13-2019, 09:08 AM   #312
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Originally Posted by BroDoze View Post
Oh crap, I thought the US was getting 2,000.
Just 2,000 globally? Dang this WILL be a limited run.
2200 worldwide scheduled.

March-Dec 2020 production run (March-Sep 2020 for Europe).
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      10-13-2019, 09:58 AM   #313
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Then the run of race cars
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      10-13-2019, 01:26 PM   #314
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by BroDoze View Post
Oh crap, I thought the US was getting 2,000.
Just 2,000 globally? Dang this WILL be a limited run.
2200 worldwide scheduled.

March-Dec 2020 production run (March-Sep 2020 for Europe).
So, tell me something...I thought originally the 1M was supposed to be around 2000 units worldwide....and then due to demand that went north of 6000. Is that correct?

Well, What's to say BMW does not do this again?

2200 becomes 6000+ worldwide???

Thoughts?
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      10-13-2019, 01:44 PM   #315
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tornado1M View Post
So, tell me something...I thought originally the 1M was supposed to be around 2000 units worldwide....and then due to demand that went north of 6000. Is that correct?

Well, What's to say BMW does not do this again?

2200 becomes 6000+ worldwide???

Thoughts?

M2CS will cost DOUBLE the price of the 1M!!! That's no bargain anymore...
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      10-13-2019, 01:53 PM   #316
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tornado1M View Post
So, tell me something...I thought originally the 1M was supposed to be around 2000 units worldwide....and then due to demand that went north of 6000. Is that correct?
Well, What's to say BMW does not do this again?
2200 becomes 6000+ worldwide???
Thoughts?
See here:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Here you go:
  • 1M: 2700 scheduled - 6309 built - out of production (see here);
  • M4 GTS: 700 scheduled - 803 built - out of production (see here);
  • M4 DTM: 200 scheduled - 200 built - out of production (see here);
  • M4 CS: 3000 scheduled - 2043 built (June 2019 figure) - still produced (see here);
  • M3 CS: 1200 scheduled - 1263 built - out of production (see here);
  • M2 CS: 2200 scheduled - production from March 2020 onwards (see here).
From the M4 GTS brochure (see here): "700" became 803.

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      10-13-2019, 04:56 PM   #317
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tornado1M View Post
So, tell me something...I thought originally the 1M was supposed to be around 2000 units worldwide....and then due to demand that went north of 6000. Is that correct?
Well, What's to say BMW does not do this again?
2200 becomes 6000+ worldwide???
Thoughts?
See here:
So, there is a strong possibility that our 2200 could turn into something higher.

However, could it explode like the 1M? Which was nearly 2.5 times more.
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      10-13-2019, 06:36 PM   #318
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tornado1M View Post
So, there is a strong possibility that our 2200 could turn into something higher.
However, could it explode like the 1M? Which was nearly 2.5 times more.
Apples and oranges. A couple of points that spring to mind:
  • the difference between the more affordable 1M price range and the M2 CS price range is substantial; we ain't talking here about a marginal difference between the price-points of the original M2 and the M2 Competition;
  • the 1M production time: March 2011 till June 2012; the M2 CS production time is shorter: SOP March 2020 and EOP December 2020 (EOP September 2020 for Europe);
  • the 1M was made available in times before further tightened noise and emissions regulations (OPF, etc.), before an uncertain future of progressive electrification, more Low Emission Zones and more dissuasive car tax/leasing policies regarding high performance cars;
  • the 1M was not made available in times when the German car industry started to struggle a bit and the global economy being on the brink of another global economic recession (admitted, that's an uncertain assumption; time will tell);
  • the 1M was quite a peculiar car, meeting a niche demand by enthusiasts: a manual-only pocket-rocket - a truncated E92 M3; Porsche took notes and released the Cayman GT4 in 2015 as manual-only car too ("We listened to our customers - our GT4 is manual-only"); the 1M had its own unique niche without competition of for example the not yet existent M2; the M2 CS: a lot of potential M2 CS customers already own the original M2 or the M2 Competition and risk to be reluctant to go for a trade-in, should the M2 CS price be unattractive; M3/M4 owners could come to the rescue, but risk to be unhappy about trade-in quotes or not willing to step out of lease obligations;
  • demand for the 1M was very strong, inducing BMW to crank up production in September 2011 from 2700 to 'as much as can be produced until June 2012' (final figure: 6309 cars); demand for the M2 CS sales could be low in Europe should the M2 CS price be unattractive.
My conclusion: IMHO BMW has to buckle up for a reality-check. The M2 CS demographic may be limited to die-hard enthusiasts and/or wealthy collectors. If the M2 CS price point ignores the current market situation, M2 CS cars will by no means sell as 1M hot cakes in Europe, except if (substantial) discounts are awarded. US sales could fare well (at the risk of stereotyping, sorry: IMHO US enthusiasts attach more attention to the 'limited edition' or 'collector's item' moniker, than European enthusiasts). It wouldn't surprise me if lots of dealers will only order an M2 CS if they got a signed order by a customer. It's fair to think that dealers dislike the idea of yet another expensive car (alike M4 GTS, M4 CS or M3 CS) only getting looks, instead of deals, inside their showroom. Production increase ? I don't think so. Some European allocations converted into US allocations ? Maybe.

Just my 2 cents. Of course the future could prove me wrong.
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      10-13-2019, 08:15 PM   #319
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tornado1M View Post
So, there is a strong possibility that our 2200 could turn into something higher.
You've posted this before. Of course it could happen, but "strong possibility"?. I highly doubt, since I don't think BMW is oblivious to the disaster that was M4 GTS sales in the U.S., which was largely caused by the unexpected overrun of 103 examples sent here.
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      10-14-2019, 05:42 AM   #320
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I have early October sold my 2016 Porsche 981 GT4, in order to be ready to push the button on the BMW M2 CS, or potentially going for a M2 Competition with some M Performance upgrades.

I hear 40 cars are allocated to Sweden, and I am one on those likely to get an allocation. However - I do have big concerns as mentioned by many here, that the price might be on the high side, thereby potentially repeating the M4 CS market history, with cars with few miles on the clock taking huge hits pricewise.

If I were to speculate, I think a base M2 Competition with the big brakes and 763M wheels, would be enough to get rather close to the M2 CS in terms of performance and usability, saving me big bucks. Emotionally of course the M2 CS is a tempting package, but trying also to stay financially balanced, it may be at too high a cost difference compared to the Competition offer.
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Last edited by Jarran; 10-14-2019 at 12:28 PM.. Reason: Adjusting spelling error.
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      10-14-2019, 07:41 PM   #321
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarran View Post
I have early October sold my 2016 Porsche 981 GT4, in order to be ready to push the button on the BMW M2 CS, or potentially going for a M2 Competition with some M Performance upgrades.

I hear 40 cars are allocated to Sweden, and I am one on those likely to get an allocation. However - I do have big concerns as mentioned by many here, that the price might be on the high side, thereby potentially repeating the M4 CS market history, with cars with few miles on the clock taking huge hits pricewise.

If I were to speculate, I think a base M2 Competition with the big brakes and 763M wheels, would be enough to get rather close to the M2 CS in terms of performance and usability, saving me big bucks. Emotionally of course the M2 CS is a tempting package, but trying also to stay financially balanced, it may be at too high a cost difference compared to the Competition offer.
I still consider you guys lucky with the pricing (almost anywhere else in Europe and in the U.S.) no matter what the M2 CS ends up costing. I am already dreading what the price will be here in the Santa's promised land of high powered vehicles (the proportional tax part of a car's total price based on CO2 has gotten totally out of hands).

M2 Comp DCT prices start from 97k€ with worse standard options than any other market. Nicely specced M4 Comp will cost 180-190k€. M4 CS is not even priced here but that would be clearly over 200k€ with any decent specs. M2 CS? Probably closer to 150k€ with standard options...

Politicians should find the balls to change the system and honor EU rules. Not going to happen unfortunately though (somehow they continue to manage to pull off this - if not illegal, definitely debatable system - decade after decade.)

Jarran would appreciate if you kept me posted about the M2 CS pricing across the border once it's out there. Would love to do a comparison between the neighbours and come up with one more reason to move to a more car enthusiast friendly country at some point.
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      10-15-2019, 12:48 PM   #322
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TheGreatJ Sure will keep you posted. I was not aware prices were that ridiculous in Finland. Qute a dramatic difference to Sweden as you rightly point out.
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      10-15-2019, 05:32 PM   #323
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rent the cheapest 1 room apartment you can find in another country and buy/register it there?

I've know of some people in the states that do that to get around state emission and inspections laws.
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      10-16-2019, 11:44 AM   #324
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Jarran thanks! Much appreciated. The prices have indeed gotten out of hands here.

guyno, welcomed idea but unfortunately when it comes to tax avoiding in Finland, the ordinarily grey public servant (local IRS) turns into vicious bloodhound and won't leave you alone until they have sucked out every last bit of blood (or €) you've got .

If I recall correctly, when you move out of the country, you are still obligated to pay taxes to your country of origin for a three years' period and even after that it can be quite arbitrary when it comes to deciding whether a person is residing in the country or not (in situations such as when you've got a second home where you visit only during vacations etc.) Just today there were some news about a fellow Finnish rally driver (permanently residing in Monaco) who had gotten into trouble with the local IRS because of this.

I could buy a new car, let's say from Germany or Sweden, for instance but then I have to pay - not only the ridiculous individual CO2 based tax but also the local VAT of 24% instead of the VAT of the original country when importing the car. Sometimes this becomes cheaper in any case and hybrids / electric cars are becoming relatively tempting options due to low CO2 emissions (awaiting for the first hybrid M car even though just the sounds of that makes me feel sick).
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      10-16-2019, 03:14 PM   #325
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarran View Post
I have early October sold my 2016 Porsche 981 GT4, in order to be ready to push the button on the BMW M2 CS, or potentially going for a M2 Competition with some M Performance upgrades.
.
Why would you get rid of a GT4 to get a M2
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      10-16-2019, 04:42 PM   #326
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Why would you get rid of a GT4 to get a M2
4 seats?
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      10-16-2019, 06:25 PM   #327
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The m2 pricing is getting way out of hand in europe.

M2 is no entry level m car anymore!

Bring back the 1m coupe in size, weight, hp and price. And you have a winner again.

I find the 1m coupe brings more driving fun then an m2 also!
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      10-16-2019, 11:19 PM   #328
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kepler View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Advevo View Post
The m2 pricing is getting way out of hand in europe.
M2 is no entry level m car anymore!
Bring back the 1m coupe in size, weight, hp and price. And you have a winner again.
I find the 1m coupe brings more driving fun then an m2 also!
It’s a nice thought. Maybe bring back the 993 at 90’s 911 pricing while you’re at it.
Go buy a 1M if you like. They’re not hard to find and many were never really driven. There is one auctioned off every 2-3 weeks on BaT alone.
He had two 1M cars and drifted those a lot.

I admit that I have neither the skills, nor the balls to drive that way under circumstances displayed in his video below (@ 06:00: "gotta go home", LOL). Margin for error: very limited.

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      10-18-2019, 06:41 AM   #329
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N54 View Post
Why would you get rid of a GT4 to get a M2
I was expecting this question.
It´s about versatility. GT4 was a fantastic ride - on the track. On public road, speeds (where I could really enjoy the GT4 abilities), were just silly and I found the cabin noisy. The cabin noise led to me driving to and back from trackdays wearing my noise cancelling headphones to avoid headache. Many of my fellow GT4 owners trailed their cars to and from track due to the cabin noise.

Also - having previously enjoyed the occasional company of my wife for a weekend ride in the car, became more and more seldom because it was difficult to have a normal conversation due to cabin noise.

Fantastic car for trackdays, but for me not enough versatility. I consider my previous Porsche 991.2 being a more usable car overall. Do I miss my GT4 - for sure and probably always will to some extent, however I hope to find a car that I will enjoy driving to Nürburgring and back home, and not only the track experience as such.

I read so many here in this forum praising the GT4, but in my mind the GT4 comes at a cost of wonderful performance within a somewhat narrow scope of usability, and it may not be to everyones preferences. If I had a lot more money than I do - then I´d probably have kept the GT4, but I only have room for 1 car for my driving enjoyment. I think Savageese on Youtube made a rather accurate review of the car, however I wanted to know first hand, and it was a "bucket list" thing for me to have owned a GT Porsche. Now I have and know what it´s like.
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Last edited by Jarran; 10-18-2019 at 01:33 PM.. Reason: spelling adjustment
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      10-18-2019, 08:19 AM   #330
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N54 View Post
Why would you get rid of a GT4 to get a M2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarran View Post
I was expecting this question.
It´s about versatility.
Bingo. Versatility, practicality. I'm glad someone else here understands this. It's extremely strange spending time here on Bimmerpost (The Bimmer part stands for BMW, right?!) with a bunch of people who think Porsches are the answer, no matter what. There are soooo many situations in which I'd rather be in an ///M than a 911 or GT4/3/2. I just don't understand why these people bought BMWs in the first place -- it's not like modestly-priced used Porsches are hard to find. Quite the opposite in fact, they're easily accessed and secured.
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