[akkando]

So I've been thinking about getting an upgraded intercooler to replace my stock one. It seems the. VRSF 5 inch HD is well reviewed and about 380. Active Autowerks also well reviewed and 450. The Wagner's are 700 to 900.


Why should I consider paying 700 to 900 for a Wagner over a cheaper alternative that's well reviewed. What am I missing here? I just be missing something.


I see so many reviews of the VRSF but I generally see people purchasing the Wagner on Bimmerpost.

[Nezil]

CSF is also popular, and what I have on my car.

The early VRSFs weren't very good, but the newer ones seem much better.

I think the main reason people go for a larger FMIC is if they live in a hot region, or they're tracking often.

Where we live, it's not mega hot, though it was two weeks ago wasn't it! But my viewpoint was slightly different.

SeanWRT made a really good point that most tunes are effectively removing the headroom that BMW left in for ambient conditions. If we are going to tune our cars, we need to pay even more attention to IATs than the stock tune, especially if you want any kind of performance in the summer.

I therefore don't subscribe to the point of view that you only need a large FMIC if you're going to track the car... Once you have a tune, I feel that you need the largest FMIC you can get. If you can get a nice tube and fin one for weight savings, great, but usually bar and plate is cheaper and just as effective... hence my CSF choice.

[akkando]

Originally Posted by Nezil

CSF is also popular, and what I have on my car.

The early VRSFs weren't very good, but the newer ones seem much better.

I think the main reason people go for a larger FMIC is if they live in a hot region, or they're tracking often.

Where we live, it's not mega hot, though it was two weeks ago wasn't it! But my viewpoint was slightly different.

SeanWRT made a really good point that most tunes are effectively removing the headroom that BMW left in for ambient conditions. If we are going to tune our cars, we need to pay even more attention to IATs than the stock tune, especially if you want any kind of performance in the summer.

I therefore don't subscribe to the point of view that you only need a large FMIC if you're going to track the car... Once you have a tune, I feel that you need the largest FMIC you can get. If you can get a nice tube and fin one for weight savings, great, but usually bar and plate is cheaper and just as effective... hence my CSF choice.

Lag very much annoys me so I'm very hesitant to go with a larger intercooler that might introduce some lag. Additional weight doesn't appeal to me either.

FaRKle! was not kind the CSF in regards to the lag in introduced relative to stock or the other intercoolers he tried, as well having the most weight. https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1518971

[FaRKle!]

Originally Posted by akkando

Lag very much annoys me so I'm very hesitant to go with a larger intercooler that might introduce some lag. Additional weight doesn't appeal to me either.

FaRKle! was not kind the CSF in regards to the lag in introduced relative to stock or the other intercoolers he tried, as well having the most weight. https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1518971

The amount of lag will differ between different engine/turbo platforms, but at least on diesels, the CSF's lag can be pretty bothersome. You can see a tuned Euro 435d member's disappointment with CSF here. The interesting thing about that case is his N57 (6cyl) engine has a twin sequential turbo setup (small and big turbo), which should be less sensitive than my single, variable vane turbo. Not sure how it would compare to the N55 though, since gassers tend to rev more quickly.

In the end it's difficult to beat the physics of trying to pressurize a larger volume in the same time as a smaller volume.

Where in the Bay Area are you?

[akkando]

Originally Posted by FaRKle!

The amount of lag will differ between different engine/turbo platforms, but at least on diesels, the CSF's lag can be pretty bothersome. You can see a tuned Euro 435d member's disappointment with CSF here. The interesting thing about that case is his N57 (6cyl) engine has a twin sequential turbo setup (small and big turbo), which should be less sensitive than my single, variable vane turbo. Not sure how it would compare to the N55 though, since gassers tend to rev more quickly.

In the end it's difficult to beat the physics of trying to pressurize a larger volume in the same time as a smaller volume.

Where in the Bay Area are you?

I live in SF in Bernal. I work near San Mateo.

[FaRKle!]

Originally Posted by akkando

I live in SF in Bernal. I work near San Mateo.

Ah ok. If you were closer to the Tri-Valley area I'd say come over and you can try the ATM unit and see how lag from a larger intercooler feels.

[Nezil]

Originally Posted by akkando

I live in SF in Bernal. I work near San Mateo.

I live in Sunnyvale and work in Santa Clara, but I'm often free around lunch time and have enough time to head up towards San Mateo.

Alternatively, I have young kids, and getting free time at the weekends is tough because my wife want's 'family time', but if you're willing to head down to the south of the bay I'd be happy to show you the CSF turbo lag.

I personally don't believe it's any worse than the stock FMIC. I totally get that it should be worse in theory, but I've heard that if you have a down-pipe, that will help with spool up and compensate for the larger FMIC.

I also have a DV+ with main spring installed, and that certainly helped with lag going from part to full throttle, but didn't do a huge amount for lag between shifts.

Obviously you know that if you rev out to 6,000+ there is absolutely no lag when you shift, right?

[Nezil]

Actually akkando, I've just re-read your info... Your M2 is DCT; you don't have a lag problem at all between shifts do you?

[akkando]

Originally Posted by Nezil

Actually akkando, I've just re-read your info... Your M2 is DCT; you don't have a lag problem at all between shifts do you?

I have the DCT and generally don't notice lag between shifts. I notice lag with the throttle as the turbo is spinning up. I don't have a down pipe, just a charge pipe that's not currently installed yet.

The price on the VRSF intercooler is low enough I don't think I'd mind buying it even if I only keep the car for another year or two. However, I don't like buying crap, I'd rather spend more if there is good reason to. I notice the heat soak pretty much whenever I drive for fun.

[cecaa850]

Originally Posted by akkando

The price on the VRSF intercooler is low enough I don't think I'd mind buying it even if I only keep the car for another year or two. However, I don't like buying crap, I'd rather spend more if there is good reason to. I notice the heat soak pretty much whenever I drive for fun.

The only one that I've read was crap was the AA. The Dinan supposedly blocks air to the radiator but all the rest are varying degrees of decent products. Someone please correct me if this is inaccurate.

[GerardzM]

I say just get the VRSF. It's relatively inexpensive and does the job especially since you have a stock tune.

Still lusting over an M2c I take it?

These OGs aren't getting good value for trade in, I went and got some numbers, know this first hand lol

[akkando]

Originally Posted by GerardzM

I say just get the VRSF. It's relatively inexpensive and does the job especially since you have a stock tune.

Still lusting over an M2c I take it?

These OGs aren't getting good value for trade in, I went and got some numbers, know this first hand lol

Well I have bm3 ACN 91 stage 1 tune, which isn't very aggressive.

I think if I get the m2c it's at least a year away. We'll see.

[mike@x-ph.com]

VRSF price/value is a great option, thats why its so popular.

the $900 Wagner intercooler is a tube and fin 6" vs a $379 5" bar and plate VRSF.

[cecaa850]

Did VSRF ever make a 6" intercooler for the M2?

[jessetaylor1]

Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com

VRSF price/value is a great option, thats why its so popular.

the $900 Wagner intercooler is a tube and fin 6" vs a $379 5" bar and plate VRSF.

VRSF 5" sufficient for a VF Hex stage 2 tune and catless downpipe?

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by jessetaylor1

VRSF 5" sufficient for a VF Hex stage 2 tune and catless downpipe?

Depends on how hard you push the car, i recommend the VRSF 7.5" Competition for $479 for stage 2

[RsPhi135]

Originally Posted by cecaa850

Did VSRF ever make a 6" intercooler for the M2?

I saw they made a 6" competition intercooler. suppose to be in between the street HD and the race in terms of performance. but i have not seen much talk about it.

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by RsPhi135

I saw they made a 6" competition intercooler. suppose to be in between the street HD and the race in terms of performance. but i have not seen much talk about it.

its the same width as the Race but shorter, optimal for stage 2 application on stock turbo

[M Fifty]

Originally Posted by akkando

So I've been thinking about getting an upgraded intercooler to replace my stock one. It seems the. VRSF 5 inch HD is well reviewed and about 380. Active Autowerks also well reviewed and 450. The Wagner's are 700 to 900.


Why should I consider paying 700 to 900 for a Wagner over a cheaper alternative that's well reviewed. What am I missing here? I just be missing something.


I see so many reviews of the VRSF but I generally see people purchasing the Wagner on Bimmerpost.

The first question is why you feel the need to change the existing part. Do you do track days in high temperatures or notice a reduction in performance in normal driving on warm days? If either it the case, pretty much any higher capacity intercooler will do, while noting that the larger volume and/or reduced flow will induce more lag.

HTH

[akkando]

Originally Posted by M Fifty

The first question is why you feel the need to change the existing part. Do you do track days in high temperatures or notice a reduction in performance in normal driving on warm days? If either it the case, pretty much any higher capacity intercooler will do, while noting that the larger volume and/or reduced flow will induce more lag.

HTH

I notice power reduction after a handful of pulls on the street, when driving back roads where I'm driving more aggressively for about 10-30 minutes at a time, and when it's very hot out (which isn't often).

So far not tracking the car.

Also I'm not shitty California gas, so..... that doesn't help.

[vrooooom]

Is there any update on this? CSF or the less expensive VRSF IC?

Is there a real lag felt on a 6MT? Or is it unnoticeable by doing the catless downpipe.

I'm not after the top end.

[detroitm2]

Originally Posted by vrooooom

Is there any update on this? CSF or the less expensive VRSF IC?

Is there a real lag felt on a 6MT? Or is it unnoticeable by doing the catless downpipe.

I'm not after the top end.

THE ULTIMATE Intercooler Thread - What to Look For Before Buying an FMIC https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1458121