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      11-10-2019, 01:58 AM   #683
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanWRT View Post
From their test:
0-100kph 4.3s
0-200kph 13.6s

That means 100-200kph 9.3s, kinda disappointing, because it's slower than a ZCP and is closer to the M4 base. Not acceptable for a 450ps S55 in the M2CS package. Or it's just the slow shifting MT to blame. I really dislike people using MT car for the instrument test.

BTW, M4 CS sees mid to high 8s all the time.

I thought BMW tuning strategy for the M2CS would be similar to M4 CS, which is a considerably stronger middle range and same top end than the 450ps M4C.

An strong middle range grunt makes for a good CS recipe.
The fact that the torque stays the same (406) but there is a decent bump in HP (450) indicates the tune is skewed more towards a mid-range punch i.e. better long track runs.

More horsepower generally means a car has a higher top speed (track), while more torque generally means a car can accelerate faster (street).

That, the sticky PSC2s and the Adaptive Dampers indicates that the CS is engineered to be more track-focus than daily street driven.
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      11-10-2019, 02:31 AM   #684
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanWRT View Post
From their test:
0-100kph 4.3s
0-200kph 13.6s

That means 100-200kph 9.3s, kinda disappointing, because it's slower than a ZCP and is closer to the M4 base. Not acceptable for a 450ps S55 in the M2CS package. Or it's just the slow shifting MT to blame. I really dislike people using MT car for the instrument test.

BTW, M4 CS sees mid to high 8s all the time.

I thought BMW tuning strategy for the M2CS would be similar to M4 CS, which is a considerably stronger middle range and same top end than the 450ps M4C.

An strong middle range grunt makes for a good CS recipe.
The fact that the torque stays the same (406) but there is a decent bump in HP (450) indicates the tune is skewed more towards a mid-range punch i.e. better long track runs.

More horsepower generally means a car has a higher top speed (track), while more torque generally means a car can accelerate faster (street).

That, the sticky PSC2s and the Adaptive Dampers indicates that the CS is engineered to be more track-focus than daily street driven.
In reality how S55 puts down power is very different than what BMW says. For example, according to bmw's engine plot, M4 CS low down should build up more slowly than ZCP, and shine really at top end. They say it's for a more linear feel.

But in real world and on the roller, truth is quite the opposite. CS torque comes way earlier and more violently and stay at peak thru middle range, until 5500 it drops off to exactly the ZCP level. BTW, up top they're still tuned very differently (as shown from datalog) but power outputs are the same.

Something you have to dive deeper to know.
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      11-10-2019, 03:37 AM   #685
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanWRT View Post
From their test:
0-100kph 4.3s
0-200kph 13.6s
That means 100-200kph 9.3s, kinda disappointing, because it's slower than a ZCP and is closer to the M4 base. Not acceptable for a 450ps S55 in the M2CS package. Or it's just the slow shifting MT to blame. I really dislike people using MT car for the instrument test.
BTW, M4 CS sees mid to high 8s all the time.
I thought BMW tuning strategy for the M2CS would be similar to M4 CS, which is a considerably stronger middle range and same top end than the 450ps M4C.
An strong middle range grunt makes for a good CS recipe.
IMHO in everyday public roads, the 80-120km/h (50-75mph) figure matters more than the track-relevant 0-200km/h (0-124mph) figure: overtaking on the highway. The M2 CS (M-DCT as well as 6MT) outruns the M3/M4 ZCP and M3/M4 CS when performing the 80-120km/h surge. For canyon carving, both the 0-100km/h and 80-120km/h performance matter (but mainly use of 2nd and 3rd gear).

0-100km/h | 0-62mph (official figures):
  • M3/M4 ZCP (331kW | 450hp): 4.0s (M-DCT) | 4.2s (6MT)
  • M2 CS (331kW | 450hp): 4.0s (M-DCT) | 4.2s (6MT)
  • M3/M4 CS (338kW | 460hp): 3.9s (M-DCT)
80-120km/h | 50-75mph (official figures):
  • M3/M4 ZCP in 4th gear: -
  • M2 CS in 4th gear: 3.1s (M-DCT) | 3.3s (6MT)
  • M3/M4 CS in 4th gear: 3.4s (M-DCT)
  • M3/M4 ZCP in 5th gear: 4.3s (M-DCT) | 4.2s (6MT)
  • M2 CS in 5th gear: 4.1s (M-DCT) | 4.0s (6MT)
  • M3/M4 CS in 5th gear: 4.3s (M-DCT)
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      11-10-2019, 04:00 AM   #686
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
IMHO in everyday public roads, the 80-120km/h (50-75mph) figure matters more than the track-relevant 0-200km/h (0-124mph) figure: overtaking on the highway. The M2 CS (M-DCT as well as 6MT) outruns the M3/M4 ZCP and M3/M4 CS when performing the 80-120km/h surge. For canyon carving, both the 0-100km/h and 80-120km/h performance matter (but mainly use of 2nd and 3rd gear).

0-100km/h | 0-62mph (official figures):
  • M3/M4 ZCP (331kW | 450hp): 4.0s (M-DCT) | 4.2s (6MT)
  • M2 CS (331kW | 450hp): 4.0s (M-DCT) | 4.2s (6MT)
  • M3/M4 CS (338kW | 460hp): 3.9s (M-DCT)
80-120km/h | 50-75mph (official figures):
  • M3/M4 ZCP in 4th gear: -
  • M2 CS in 4th gear: 3.1s (M-DCT) | 3.3s (6MT)
  • M3/M4 CS in 4th gear: 3.4s (M-DCT)
  • M3/M4 ZCP in 5th gear: 4.3s (M-DCT) | 4.2s (6MT)
  • M2 CS in 5th gear: 4.1s (M-DCT) | 4.0s (6MT)
  • M3/M4 CS in 5th gear: 4.3s (M-DCT)
Well, you smash throttle at 80kph, DCT puts you in 2nd (WOT) or 3rd (deep throttle). On 4th gear, you're not really trying.

The in-gear accelaration figures don't really mean much in real world, but only is an indication of PUC (power under the curve) at a certain rev range. It's more like a real world dyno pull.

That being said, I'm surprise M2 CS is quicker (meaning more powerful) from 80-120 on 4th. To be honest with you, whoever from BMW put up those numbers, I doubt he or she know its stuff.
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      11-10-2019, 04:05 AM   #687
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BishUK View Post
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Originally Posted by Throttleblip View Post
I've read from the BMW bulletin and the OP post that the black wheel option si high gloss but the Jet Back Performance wheels are matte finish. Can someone confirm if the black wheel option is matte or high gloss? Here is a pic of the black me performance wheels with the matte description. I hope they are not high gloss.
Looking at the pics of the official BMW USA release brochure then they are def gloss black
Thanks! Where can I see that brochure ?
https://www.bmwusa.com/future-vehicl...irst-ever.html
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      11-10-2019, 04:09 AM   #688
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While tuning up the HP, why not tune up the Torque?

I was initially thinking both HP & Torque were going to see a bump up.

So, why not bump up Torque? Is it a limitation of the engine?
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      11-10-2019, 04:32 AM   #689
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BishUK View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Throttleblip View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by BishUK View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Throttleblip View Post
I've read from the BMW bulletin and the OP post that the black wheel option si high gloss but the Jet Back Performance wheels are matte finish. Can someone confirm if the black wheel option is matte or high gloss? Here is a pic of the black me performance wheels with the matte description. I hope they are not high gloss.
Looking at the pics of the official BMW USA release brochure then they are def gloss black
Thanks! Where can I see that brochure ?
https://www.bmwusa.com/future-vehicl...irst-ever.html
Still no pricing!
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      11-10-2019, 07:57 AM   #690
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clee1982 View Post
Still no pricing!
In cauda venenum.
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      11-10-2019, 08:01 AM   #691
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by clee1982 View Post
Still no pricing!
In cauda venenum.


Google translate
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      11-10-2019, 08:12 AM   #692
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arciga18 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by clee1982 View Post
Still no pricing!
In cauda venenum.

Google translate
Here you go.
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      11-10-2019, 08:17 AM   #693
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by arciga18 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by clee1982 View Post
Still no pricing!
In cauda venenum.

Google translate
Here you go.
Sorry. I was directing people to go to google translate because it was such a good post !!!!!
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      11-10-2019, 09:12 AM   #694
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BishUK View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Throttleblip View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by BishUK View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Throttleblip View Post
I've read from the BMW bulletin and the OP post that the black wheel option si high gloss but the Jet Back Performance wheels are matte finish. Can someone confirm if the black wheel option is matte or high gloss? Here is a pic of the black me performance wheels with the matte description. I hope they are not high gloss.
Looking at the pics of the official BMW USA release brochure then they are def gloss black
Thanks! Where can I see that brochure ?
https://www.bmwusa.com/future-vehicl...irst-ever.html
Thanks but it doesn't say high gloss in the text.
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      11-10-2019, 09:22 AM   #695
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dezzracer View Post
Quote:
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don't get me wrong- i really like it, but its a tune, cosmetics package, and marginal weight reduction (probably about 150lbs max).
Not true. People said same thing about the M3 CS. Ask anyone who has driven both the F80 Comp and CS. The difference in driving dynamics is significant. I'm sorry, but a "tune and cosmetics" does not equal a BMW factory engineered CS. Regardless of the numeral put before
Ok, what is different besides what is listed?
I had a non-zcp M4 and now an M3CS.

The CS is noticeably faster, bordering scary fast too quickly. More than the 35hp difference quoted between the too. Much of that is actually due to the car feeling more planted and more compliant, more of the power actually hits the pavement. This is in part due to the Cup 2s, but also the suspension changes.

People on the forums crap on the lack of center armrest, but in every day use it really wasn't something I noticed since I have the regular door cards in my M3 (compared to the stupid carbon cards in the M4CS).

I haven't even had a chance to really push my M3 since I bought it in August and barely got to break-in by the time it went in to winter storage, but in those 2300km I can tell you it's a totally different animal.

Full disclosure, my M3 was sitting on the lot for 13-14 months and it had "blowout" pricing (27k off list). I paid less than my original M4 actually and it's a much different animal.
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      11-10-2019, 09:26 AM   #696
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
IMHO in everyday public roads, the 80-120km/h (50-75mph) figure matters more than the track-relevant 0-200km/h (0-124mph) figure: overtaking on the highway. The M2 CS (M-DCT as well as 6MT) outruns the M3/M4 ZCP and M3/M4 CS when performing the 80-120km/h surge. For canyon carving, both the 0-100km/h and 80-120km/h performance matter (but mainly use of 2nd and 3rd gear).

0-100km/h | 0-62mph (official figures):
  • M3/M4 ZCP (331kW | 450hp): 4.0s (M-DCT) | 4.2s (6MT)
  • M2 CS (331kW | 450hp): 4.0s (M-DCT) | 4.2s (6MT)
  • M3/M4 CS (338kW | 460hp): 3.9s (M-DCT)
80-120km/h | 50-75mph (official figures):
  • M3/M4 ZCP in 4th gear: -
  • M2 CS in 4th gear: 3.1s (M-DCT) | 3.3s (6MT)
  • M3/M4 CS in 4th gear: 3.4s (M-DCT)
  • M3/M4 ZCP in 5th gear: 4.3s (M-DCT) | 4.2s (6MT)
  • M2 CS in 5th gear: 4.1s (M-DCT) | 4.0s (6MT)
  • M3/M4 CS in 5th gear: 4.3s (M-DCT)
I seriously doubt the M2cs will be faster than an M4cs on in gear pulls given the significant mid range power advantage of the M4cs tune over the ZCP/M2cs tune and negligible weight difference.
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      11-10-2019, 11:21 AM   #697
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dezzracer View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by roastbeef View Post
don't get me wrong- i really like it, but its a tune, cosmetics package, and marginal weight reduction (probably about 150lbs max).
Not true. People said same thing about the M3 CS. Ask anyone who has driven both the F80 Comp and CS. The difference in driving dynamics is significant. I'm sorry, but a "tune and cosmetics" does not equal a BMW factory engineered CS. Regardless of the numeral put before
Absolutely agree and I owned the M4comp and now own the M4CS, it feels significantly different/better.
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      11-10-2019, 11:44 AM   #698
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I want me some CS hood though...
Yes, can we buy the hood factory painted in BSM now that it should be part numbered for this car?
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      11-10-2019, 11:47 AM   #699
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhanism View Post
I want me some CS hood though...
Yes, can we buy the hood factory painted in BSM now that it should be part numbered for this car?
If they make any of that stuff available- probably vin locked .....
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      11-10-2019, 12:53 PM   #700
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Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
It may as well be a unicorn.
With 2200 cars worldwide, I would not call it a unicorn:
  • 1M: 2700 scheduled - 6309 built - out of production (see here);
  • M4 GTS ("limited edition"): 700 scheduled - 803 built - out of production (see here);
  • M4 DTM ("limited edition"): 200 scheduled - 200 built - out of production (see here);
  • M4 CS: 3000 scheduled - 2043 built (June 2019 figure) - produced until Feb 2020 (see here);
  • M3 CS: 1200 scheduled - 1263 built - out of production (see here);
  • M2 CS ("limited edition"): 2200 scheduled - production from March 2020 until Dec 2020 (see here).
Last September I have seen the M2 CS up-close IRL. Though I have not seen/heard it yet in motion IRL, videos of M2 CS prototypes lapping the Nürburgring and Hockenheimring in a poised 'ants in the pants' fashion, showcase the promise of something very interesting.

Defining moment: it has officially popped up on the Petrolhead Territories radar. The radar alarm blip has a message for competing brands: *woop-woop* "Cave canem !"

I posted the following in earlier thread:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
It's no secret anymore that the M2 CS will be launched this month and produced next year. Very recently BMW M boss Markus Flasch coined it as "probably the most crisp and pure BMW M model we have launched in quite some time" and "it's phenomenal and drives like a race car with license plates" (see here).

The future will tell whether this new kid on the ///M block lives up to its high expectations. Based on what I know so far, I trust that the M2 CS is bound to become a very desirable BMW M car, a quintessential automotive gem setting a new beemer bliss benchmark: a properly sized, fast & powerful rear-wheel drive 4-seater with great driving dynamics, fine-tuned reliable 3.0 6-cyl powerhouse, cool design & presence, decent boot space, creature comforts and available with manual gear stick & M-DCT. You can comfortably drive your partner + two kids to the circuit, lap the circuit and all return home again with a smile, including a stop to pick up groceries. Quite practical and versatile/multipurpose.

Moreover, the M2 CS will also be one of the last models before BMW and BMW M fully implement the new 'design language' of big front end grilles. Very likely the last generation at the gates of the future era of 'grillefication', electrification, more front-wheel drive & all-wheel drive, more automatic/ZF transmission, less 6-cylinder & exhaust drama and further tightened regulations. And, hence, IMHO the M2 CS stands a good chance to be reputed as 'vintage'/'classic' in the future (so-called 'future classic'), a pinnacle car tech toy with still an 'analog' twist (instead of going fully digital) facilitating emotional connection.

But it risks to be a challenge to get hold of an allocation (build slot) (2200 cars worldwide, all built in 2020), features a peculiar Bavarian blue launch color and an immodest price-tag for a BMW 2er.

Unlike the E46 M3 CSL (SMGII), E92 M3 GTS, E90 M3 CRT, E92 DTM Champion Edition (Spengler), F82 M4 GTS, F82 DTM Champion Edition (Wittmann), F82 M4 CS, F80 M3 CS and F82 Heritage Edition, manual transmission will be available as standard feature on the M2 CS. BMW M boss Flash confirmed last Summer - in a general way about BMW M cars - that currently no plans exist to discontinue the manual gearbox (see for example here). However, almost certainly we won't see the M-DCT on the next generation M2 (G87). The M-DCT is on its way out.
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      11-10-2019, 01:26 PM   #701
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With all the CF and the lighter wheels, how can the CS weigh the same as the Comp ?
This has already been explained in previous posts...The weight figures published are for Europe, they are for base car without option. A base M2C here has no sport brake,no HK sound system, manual standard seats,... and obviously no adaptative suspension. So the lighter wheel and CF parts on the M2CS just balance the heavier standard equipment of the M2CS, hence an equal weight at the end.
Situation will be different in the US since base M2C equipment is higher (and heavier) than in Europe.
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      11-10-2019, 02:00 PM   #702
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Because weight is a major factor on how the car performs. It is much more agile. Then you factor in the power bump to the weight reduction, this is a completely different beast.

Hockenheim GP track the M2C is a full seconds slower than the CS. In terms of performance it is significant.

Curb weight of the M2C is 3,600. If the rumors are true of the M2CS without CCB of it being 3410, then you are talking about better overall performance with the power bump.
I obviously understand the adavantage of having a lighter car. What I do not understand is why some trust more rumors than the real homologation figures provided by BMW.
The fact is that in Europe a base M2C is exactly the same weight than a base M2CS. The Sport Auto weight measurements do not contradict that, their M2C tested car was obviously not a base car (it has most probably the heavy optional sport brakes, electrical sport seats , HK sound system,...)
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      11-10-2019, 02:55 PM   #703
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hellrotm View Post
It doesn't according to Sport Auto. BMW for some reason has the same weights listed for both cars.

Sport Auto(w/ full tanks): M2C dct - 1631kg, M2CS dct - 1588kg w/CCB
43kg difference or 94lbs with CCB.

Did some CCB weight analysis here($8k CCB are responsible for about 52lbs of 94lbs):
https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...&postcount=577
BMW report the same weights because the base cars (i.e without option) have the same weight .
On the other hand Sport Auto compared an M2 CS in its lightest configuration( with CCB) and most likely a typically optioned M2C (i.e featuring the optional (in Europe) heavy sport brakes, electrical sport seats, HK sound system,...).
So there is no contradiction, it is possible in Europe to have an M2C at the same weight than an M2CS (without CCB) but in real life most M2C will be slightly heavier.
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      11-10-2019, 03:24 PM   #704
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
With 2200 cars worldwide, I would not call it a unicorn:
  • 1M: 2700 scheduled - 6309 built - out of production (see here);
  • M4 GTS: 700 scheduled - 803 built - out of production (see here);
  • M4 DTM: 200 scheduled - 200 built - out of production (see here);
  • M4 CS: 3000 scheduled - 2043 built (June 2019 figure) - still produced (see here);
  • M3 CS: 1200 scheduled - 1263 built - out of production (see here);
  • M2 CS: 2200 scheduled - production from March 2020 onwards (see here).
Last September I have seen the M2 CS up-close IRL. Though I have not seen/heard it yet in motion IRL, videos of M2 CS prototypes lapping the Nürburgring and Hockenheimring in a poised 'ants in the pants' fashion, showcase the promise of something very interesting.

Defining moment: it has officially popped up on the Petrolhead Territories radar. The radar alarm blip has a message for competing brands: *woop-woop* "Cave canem !"

I posted the following in earlier thread:
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