[Germanauto]

Originally Posted by Cortexiphan

C&D? Of course. If you hate BMW and seek confirmation for your bias, C&D is the place to go. I keep having these ads on my social media “Here’s the best luxury saloons” with a picture of a 7 series. Then inside, you’ll see BMW behind every single competitor. Same with 3 series, 5 series, etc. Almost all BMWs are in top 3 for every single magazine or publication. Right now G20, G30, X3, X5, X7, 8 series are all winning all the comparison tests... on C&D they’re behind EVERYTHING. They don’t even make it to top 10. C&D has some issue with BMW, but I don’t know what’s going on behind the scenes.

I respect literally every single magazine, publication, website, YouTube channel more than C&D. And overall, British car media is the best and most reliable.

Modern BMWs are at or near the top of their respective segments relative to competitors.

But C&D focuses more on the driving experience, and for the most part their complaining is warranted. BMW has zapped the visceral driving enjoyment out of nearly all but 1-2 cars in their portfolio. There's no denying that.

[mcgarnigle]

Not surprised at brake disappointment comments

The OEM pads on the 2nh are very wooden. They are hard, bite for a second, and then you have to lean on them to get anything else. I hated them on the street.

Real track pads (I'm using carbotech xp20) and good fluid make these brakes feel and perform properly. I haven't bothered putting the OEM pads back in now that my season is over. I'd rather deal with the noise and poor performance for the first couple of stops than have those awful wood pads back for the rest of the year.

I did get a bit of knockback ok my last trackday though. I was surprised at that.

[COChris]

Originally Posted by mcgarnigle

Not surprised at brake disappointment comments

The OEM pads on the 2nh are very wooden. They are hard, bite for a second, and then you have to lean on them to get anything else. I hated them on the street.

Real track pads (I'm using carbotech xp20) and good fluid make these brakes feel and perform properly. I haven't bothered putting the OEM pads back in now that my season is over. I'd rather deal with the noise and poor performance for the first couple of stops than have those awful wood pads back for the rest of the year.

I did get a bit of knockback ok my last trackday though. I was surprised at that.

I completely agree. Have tracked with stock and Ferodo DS2500 pads (both with fresh Castrol SRF), and the difference in feel and fade is night and day.

The Ferodos can be LOUD, but not so bad that I swap the stock pad back in for street use. But I would If the car were a daily driver.

[chassis]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Hanging out in a fat suit?

That's funny.

[evanescent03]

Originally Posted by chris719

There are more reports of issues with these 2NH brakes than I ever saw with the blue ones. I'm not sure why. I also have seen reports of some aftermarket pads being loose and clanking around, not sure if they have all the proper shims or are just the wrong size or what. On the M2C I drove, I felt the brakes were fine but the pedal is way overboosted, even more than my Z4M. The old blue brakes and the CCBs on M4s do not feel like that.

I used aftermarket pads on my F80 blues... they were fine most of the time except a certain turn on one track ever did I have that issue.... it happened twice at the same corner and then I just took it easy for a while bc I didn't know WTF was going on. It was a bit scary tho and luckily when I released and went back in the brakes they started working again.

[orangeglim]

I've had a chance to drive the M850i on the track at BMW's performance center in South Carolina a couple of times now. I wasn't impressed any of the three times I went out in it. Big, heavy, tiny inside, lag on the gas pedal like mad. I'm glad to see the M2C is ranked higher.

[Thedriver85]

Originally Posted by windnsea00

Randy knows his stuff and works directly with OEM's on vehicle dynamics, I trust what he says and his feedback in this case seems spot on.

The M2C front and rear are connected in a beautiful way that allows the car to "dance."

Having a 2018 GT350 also, I have often complained about the midcorner oversteer out of nowhere- I usually think it's my fault, looks like they were able to iron that out on the 2019's.

Well that's an awesome Garage.

[CSBM5]

Originally Posted by orangeglim

I've had a chance to drive the M850i on the track at BMW's performance center in South Carolina a couple of times now. I wasn't impressed any of the three times I went out in it. Big, heavy, tiny inside, lag on the gas pedal like mad. I'm glad to see the M2C is ranked higher.

Same impression here. Drove the M850i in the rat race wet oval competition, and the almost complete lack of communication from the front contact patches to the steering wheel was surprising. In the rat race, in order to obtain the maximum possible speed (minimum lap time), you have to drive the slow corners slow but right on the limits of the front tires. You need to trail-brake the entry heavily, transition to peak cornering load and roll on the throttle off the apex all in the smoothest fashion possible while maximizing the braking/cornering/acceleration process at each end of the oval.

Trying to manage the huge M850i on the limits wasn't easy. It initially felt like there was feel of what's going on at the front contact patches being transmitted, and you've established a given amount of input, etc, and then...the front is washing out with essentially zero change in anything in the steering wheel; no significant steering wheel torque feedback change, just a numb feeling and one of those oh **** I need to now drive this thing a lot differently since it's not going to be a willing participant in this event. Very surprising given how outstanding the M2C EPS steering is by comparison.

[535i MSport]

Originally Posted by CSBM5

Same impression here. Drove the M850i in the rat race wet oval competition, and the almost complete lack of communication from the front contact patches to the steering wheel was surprising. In the rat race, in order to obtain the maximum possible speed (minimum lap time), you have to drive the slow corners slow but right on the limits of the front tires. You need to trail-brake the entry heavily, transition to peak cornering load and roll on the throttle off the apex all in the smoothest fashion possible while maximizing the braking/cornering/acceleration process at each end of the oval.

Trying to manage the huge M850i on the limits wasn't easy. It initially felt like there was feel of what's going on at the front contact patches being transmitted, and you've established a given amount of input, etc, and then...the front is washing out with essentially zero change in anything in the steering wheel; no significant steering wheel torque feedback change, just a numb feeling and one of those oh **** I need to now drive this thing a lot differently since it's not going to be a willing participant in this event. Very surprising given how outstanding the M2C EPS steering is by comparison.

I wouldn't even bother taking anything the size of the 8 series around a track, other than just to say I had done it. It's too big and heavy to expect too much from it.

[chris719]

Originally Posted by 535i MSport

I wouldn't even bother taking anything the size of the 8 series around a track, other than just to say I had done it. It's too big and heavy to expect too much from it.

It's a weird car. I drove an M850i briefly and I couldn't tell if I liked it or hated it. It has a ridiculously small interior for the external dimensions, yet I liked it better than the M5 in some ways. I would guess the M8 is pretty awesome.

The problem is the cost. The closest thing I could come up with is the M850i is like a fixed-roof SL63 AMG.

If you have enough disposable income, BMW's real problem is the existence of the 911.

[bri1042]

Originally Posted by chris719

It's a weird car. I drove an M850i briefly and I couldn't tell if I liked it or hated it. It has a ridiculously small interior for the external dimensions, yet I liked it better than the M5 in some ways. I would guess the M8 is pretty awesome.

The problem is the cost. The closest thing I could come up with is the M850i is like a fixed-roof SL63 AMG.

If you have enough disposable income, BMW's real problem is the existence of the 911.

Certainly not wrong that last line. If I had the money and desire for an M850i, I could spend 2k more a gorgeous gray Carrera S sitting on the lot at the local Porsche dealership. I think for people spending that kind of cash, it might come down to the interiors (which one they like better), and AWD on the M850i vs RWD on the Porsche. Not sure, though, since that's not a decision I'll likely ever have the cash to make (new, at least).

Edit: The M850i might be easier to use as a daily driver in PNW weather. Might tip me towards it instead of the Porsche...but I still think I'd turn away from both of them if that was the concern and just get an M5C at that price.

[AlpsRider]

I know money isn't the point of this conversation but I think the 911 depreciation would be much less 10 years from now.

[1mm2]

Originally Posted by AlpsRider

I know money isn't the point of this conversation but I think the 911 depreciation would be much less 10 years from now.

Correct.

1M is the last one that has bucked the trend...

[clee1982]

Originally Posted by AlpsRider

I know money isn't the point of this conversation but I think the 911 depreciation would be much less 10 years from now.

A normal 911 depreciate quite a lot too, no, especially if you daily drive, your mileage will immediately put you over the collector range

[chris719]

Originally Posted by bri1042

Certainly not wrong that last line. If I had the money and desire for an M850i, I could spend 2k more a gorgeous gray Carrera S sitting on the lot at the local Porsche dealership. I think for people spending that kind of cash, it might come down to the interiors (which one they like better), and AWD on the M850i vs RWD on the Porsche. Not sure, though, since that's not a decision I'll likely ever have the cash to make (new, at least).

Edit: The M850i might be easier to use as a daily driver in PNW weather. Might tip me towards it instead of the Porsche...but I still think I'd turn away from both of them if that was the concern and just get an M5C at that price.

I actually think the interior of the M850i is a better than the 911. At least, the 991 that I have been in briefly. The 911 has nice leather and seats, but the buttons are kind of cheap in feel when you press them and their software stack sucks even more than iDrive.

[Thescout13]

Originally Posted by chris719

I actually think the interior of the M850i is a better than the 911. At least, the 991 that I have been in briefly. The 911 has nice leather and seats, but the buttons are kind of cheap in feel when you press them and their software stack sucks even more than iDrive.

Yeah agree 100% on this pre-992. Although, was in a recent 992 911 and I think that interior is miles better than the previous generation.

[bri1042]

I don't disagree, either, but I was leaving it for everyone to decide for themselves rather than post my thoughts on the two cars' interiors. Considering that most folk here are much more forgiving of OUR car's interior than I am, I've mostly learned (recently) to just keep the interior opinions to myself, for the most part. I can see a person being more thrilled by the look of the Porsche interior than the modern BMW fare, relative quality not withstanding, and sometimes something that's different than what you're used to can look better than it actually is.