[blackout23]

Originally Posted by ///MPhatic

So much here to unpack because your holier-than-thou-colored glasses seem to be permanently glued to your face.

Aesthetics are subjective, but majority rules, the G everything is ugly.

Civic, worldview? Please don't continue this line. It's a Civic.

I'm glad the G has grown on you, count yourself among the lucky few that can appreciate the car for more than its aesthetics. But just so we're clear, that has never been an M-Car trait. Ugly can go home, he's drunk at ///M.

The G has already flopped, and will be hated-on ruthlessly as it ages even worse. No worries for BMW though, thanks to their ridiculously strong brand image, demographic (I must have the newest thing), and requisite increased performance it'll sell, and more power to them.

If you say so, BMW-forum-guy-who-knows-everything. Weren't you the same guy who wished your car didn't come with a stereo?

Yeah, can someone else chime in here? I have little interest in conversing with anyone who says a car "has already flopped" before anyone has even seen one outside of press engagements.

It doesn't have to impress you, individually. You're clearly capable of holding on to a car for a long time (assuming the car in your profile you bought new). Count yourself among the lucky few who are capable of doing this. You should also realize though that your opinion doesn't matter much because you haven't bought a car in almost ten years.

And my point about the civic, because it somehow went over your head:

Some people actually think this:



Looks better than this:



Bias is a hell of a drug.

Also, "it's a civic"... that would run circles around your OG M2, for less money. And has a better interior. Not that it matters much, but your vibe is pretty dismissive so felt it apropos to point that out.

We're all friends here, right?

edit: NVM, lol. You bought a Lexus, and are shitting on a Civic Type R? And you don't even buy new cars. We're done here.

[///MPhatic]

Originally Posted by blackout23

If you say so, BMW-forum-guy-who-knows-everything. Weren't you the same guy who wished your car didn't come with a stereo?

Knows everything? Hmmm, I don't think that's quite right, but I do know a fair bit about some things.

And that's correct, I don't use the stereo much in the M2, and feel like the HK system is severely lacking at this price point.

Originally Posted by blackout23

I have little interest in conversing with anyone who says a car "has already flopped" before anyone has even seen one outside of press engagements.

I was only saying that the press doesn't buy cars, people do.

Originally Posted by blackout23

You should also realize though that your opinion doesn't matter much because you haven't bought a car in almost ten years.

I bought my 2018 3 years and 7 months ago.

Originally Posted by blackout23

And my point about the civic, because it somehow went over your head:

It didn't go over my head, I just figured they are both terribly busy, hard to tell the difference unless you're into terribly busy.

Originally Posted by blackout23

Bias is a hell of a drug.

On this point we agree.

Originally Posted by blackout23

Also, "it's a civic"... that would run circles around your OG M2, for less money. And has a better interior.

I have no doubt. But if you think everyone buys cars for numbers and interiors I'd say you're sorely mistaken. Honda has yet to produce any product that competes with the M2's overall appeal and playful nature, and certainly not a Civic.

Originally Posted by blackout23

Not that it matters much, but your vibe is pretty dismissive so felt it apropos to point that out. We're all friends here, right?

We are not all friends here, but we don't have to be, so it's all good.

[StickyPickle]

Originally Posted by D.Yooras

I would buy that car for a few reasons:

1) First MY of a new car is usually not the best idea, BMWs are no exception
2) Time will tell whether this car catches on but as of right now, I would say it's not trending the right direction.
2.1) Prices of OG and Comp cars are not really dropping which isn't good news for the G87
2.2) It's a bold design which means it will either stick or flop. Like the E46 M3, that had the potential to flop but it was adopted as the definitive M car of that era (established a few permanent style cues too). Based on the interwebs, the trend line is already pointing towards flop, add that to dealer pricing and it's not looking good
3) It's a German car...made in Mexico. Nothing against the assembly side of things, but that usually means the parts are built there too and that is almost more important than the actual assembly. Lower quality parts led to headaches and poor resale value.

My advice, if you want another M car get an F87 and let the "other guys" take up the mantle of being beta testers for this new "bold" M2. Wait a year or two with something you already know you like and see if the upgrade is worth it. An F87 isn't going to drop in value anytime soon, or at least not rapidly.

There’s so much wrong in this post I don’t even know where to begin lol.

1. It’s not like it’s an entirely new platform, it’s based on the G42 which has been out for a minute. Also much of the engine/drivetrain is the same as the M3/M4 with a few minor tweaks here and there with boost, suspension, etc.

2. What are you basing this opinion on?

2.1 I don’t see how this plays any factor. Judging by many dealership’s allocation wait list, seems the demand for the G87 is fairly high.


2.2 I don’t where on the interwebs you’re getting this info from other than from many of the F87 owners shitting on the car’s looks in comments but the waiting list to get an allocation is pretty lengthy at many dealerships.

3. And lol at this, do you really believe the parts are made in Mexico just because it’s assembled there? I mean I won’t sit here and say that NONE of them are but wow lol

[IcewaterPete]

Can we all just agree to meet at the bike racks at 3:30 and settle this once and for all? 😀

[///MPhatic]

Originally Posted by StickyPickle

3. And lol at this, do you really believe the parts are made in Mexico just because it’s assembled there? I mean I won’t sit here and say that NONE of them are but wow lol

Curiously, I'm not so bothered by the Mexico thing. I think if you have the right parts and the right overseers than a great product can be made anywhere. I don't see an exception here, but I'm no expert.

I will say that there are some very modern cars that originated in Japan that have or have had plants in Mexico in recent years that left much to be desired, I just can't see that happening to BMW. But again, I'm no expert on it.

[StickyPickle]

Originally Posted by ///MPhatic

Curiously, I'm not so bothered by the Mexico thing. I think if you have the right parts and the right overseers than a great product can be made anywhere. I don't see an exception here, but I'm no expert.

I will say that there are some very modern cars that originated in Japan that have or have had plants in Mexico in recent years that left much to be desired, I just can't see that happening to BMW. But again, I'm no expert on it.

The parts being made in Mexico because it’s assembled there comment by the other poster was mind blowing to say the least but you have the right idea about why it shouldn’t be a concern that it’s assembled there. The plant in Mexico is the newest and most advanced BMW plant in the world. On top of that, they work hand in hand with the Germans there to ensure everything is done according to BMW standards.

I’m sure the vast majority of the parts and suppliers used to assemble the cars there would be the same if they were assembled in Germany. Literally the only reason anyone could complain about owning a M car assembled in Mexico is that it wasn’t assembled in Germany which apparently matters to some people for some reason.

[zcp]

Originally Posted by StickyPickle

There’s so much wrong in this post I don’t even know where to begin lol.

1. It’s not like it’s an entirely new platform, it’s based on the G42 which has been out for a minute. Also much of the engine/drivetrain is the same as the M3/M4 with a few minor tweaks here and there with boost, suspension, etc.

2. What are you basing this opinion on?

2.1 I don’t see how this plays any factor. Judging by many dealership’s allocation wait list, seems the demand for the G87 is fairly high.


2.2 I don’t where on the interwebs you’re getting this info from other than from many of the F87 owners shitting on the car’s looks in comments but the waiting list to get an allocation is pretty lengthy at many dealerships.

3. And lol at this, do you really believe the parts are made in Mexico just because it’s assembled there? I mean I won’t sit here and say that NONE of them are but wow lol

Ya this whole post was too ridiculous to reply to, but thankfully you did for us all haha.

I called a couple dozen dealers with incoming M2s across the country. All were $5-10k over, with a few at $15-20k over, in California unsurprisingly lol. Larger dealerships have 1-1.5 year waits, smaller dealers had 2-4 people on a list, which could easily be that long since they won’t get as many allocations as the larger dealers.

Yes, there are MSRP dealers out there, but none of them have available cars, and their lists will be the longest.

[Suds]

911s would be my choice
Or fuck off!

What is this little vibrating bastard gib?

Originally Posted by M2zcp

Hey everyone!

Yesterday I was offered an incoming 2023 M2 6MT. Here are the details.

$1k under sticker.
April delivery.

Brooklyn Grey - $650
Shadowline Package $300
Lighting Package - $600
Carbon Roof - $2600
Live Cockpit Pro w/Heads Up - $1100
50 Years Emblems - $200

$67,695 with discount

I’m tempted to get back into a 2021 M2 Competition for $60k or a 911 S for a little more.

Thoughts? Thanks!

*Photo for reference*

[m2ss]

Originally Posted by IcewaterPete

Park a 992 next to a C7 and tell me it’s a small car.

It's a felony...

[///MPhatic]

Originally Posted by StickyPickle

The parts being made in Mexico because it’s assembled there comment by the other poster was mind blowing to say the least but you have the right idea about why it shouldn’t be a concern that it’s assembled there. The plant in Mexico is the newest and most advanced BMW plant in the world. On top of that, they work hand in hand with the Germans there to ensure everything is done according to BMW standards.

I’m sure the vast majority of the parts and suppliers used to assemble the cars there would be the same if they were assembled in Germany. Literally the only reason anyone could complain about owning a M car assembled in Mexico is that it wasn’t assembled in Germany which apparently matters to some people for some reason.

I hear you. People worship the 763M wheel until they find out that it's made in Taiwan. Then they figure SAI makes wheels for Ferrari so they're probably ok. lol

[IcewaterPete]

Originally Posted by m2ss

It's a felony...

LOL! I was just checking and you passed the test…

[Fred Conoway]

Originally Posted by blackout23

Not really having a dog in this fight, I can honestly say the G87 has grown on me. I didn't like it when I first saw it; I attribute that to allowing my eyes to adjust. I can also very honestly say I thought the same of the G8x M3/4. It's still not as attractive to me as the F8x, but I can't sit here and say the car is ugly anymore. I know many still do but they're becoming harder to find now that the car is out in the wild and it's not "new and shocking" anymore.

Very good point here. I'm going to get crucified for saying this, but I was not a big fan of the F87 M2 styling when it was first released in 2016. But as time moved on and I actually started seeing (and driving them) in person, the car grew on me immensely, especially when the comp was released. Took time, but eyes adjusted indeed, and I think the minor tweaks that they made to the comp really made the difference for me. I don't know how much they will adjust with the G87, but it's not just the ascetics that I have a problem with...

Please send all your hate mail directly to my inbox

[W///]

Originally Posted by ///MPhatic

So much here to unpack because your holier-than-thou-colored glasses seem to be permanently glued to your face.

Aesthetics are subjective, but majority rules, the G everything is ugly.

Civic, worldview? Please don't continue this line. It's a Civic.

I'm glad the G has grown on you, count yourself among the lucky few that can appreciate the car for more than its aesthetics. But just so we're clear, that has never been an M-Car trait. Ugly can go home, he's drunk at ///M.

The G has already flopped, and will be hated-on ruthlessly as it ages even worse. No worries for BMW though, thanks to their ridiculously strong brand image, demographic (I must have the newest thing), and requisite increased performance it'll sell, and more power to them.

My 2 cents is you can't really say "holier-than-thou-colored glasses" and then do the exact same thing. This is juts as silly as the N55T vs S55 debate that frankly goes nowhere. To say "it's a Civic" is also equally as silly. No offense, but it's these kinds of statements that has gotten you banned before multiple times.

While you clearly don't like G generation cars, there are plenty of others that do like them. I'm 99% sure you've never driven one, and it's fair if you hate the looks as much as you do, but you're missing out because they are truly great driving cars. To label them a flop makes no sense to me. Based on what?

I don't own a G gen car and I'm still very much in love with my F87, but I can stand back and still admire them from a distance.

P.S. I've seen a G87 in person, and while it's nowhere as pretty as the F87 IMHO, I for one am glad that BMW still makes a compact 6MT RWD car. When these M's start becoming hybrids or BEV's, then we'll see how much of a "flop" these G gen cars are

[m2ss]

Originally Posted by W///

P.S. I've seen a G87 in person, and while it's nowhere as pretty as the F87 IMHO, I for one am glad that BMW still makes a compact 6MT RWD car.

How would you define "compact"?

[W///]

Originally Posted by m2ss

How would you define "compact"?

My very scientific method: Can I reach the passenger door handle from the driver seat?

Keep in mind, I have an E36 and Z4M, even the F87 is decently bigger than them. It is what it is though, if you want a car that isn't the size of a Challenger, but want a manual, how many choices do you actually have?

Same with the G80 M3 for me: If you want a fun, 6MT, RWD sedan, what can you buy that still has a warranty?

[///MPhatic]

Originally Posted by W///

My 2 cents is you can't really say "holier-than-thou-colored glasses" and then do the exact same thing.

You are absolutely right on this point. I value aesthetics over outright performance on M cars because they all have great performance.

Originally Posted by W///

No offense, but it's these kinds of statements that has gotten you banned before multiple times.

This is incorrect. I, personally, have never been banned. I won't go into it specifically, but let's just say that I'm not the only one that comments using my account.

Originally Posted by W///

While you clearly don't like G generation cars, there are plenty of others that do like them.

This is true as well, but I feel like it's a no-brainer that when the dust settles the G won't be nearly as beloved as the F. Feel free to remind me if it swings the other way (but you won't do that because it's nearly a guarantee).

Originally Posted by W///

I'm 99% sure you've never driven one, and it's fair if you hate the looks as much as you do, but you're missing out because they are truly great driving cars.

You are right, I haven't driven one, and I'm sure from the reviews that they drive great, but the heavier a car is to me, the worse it usually is. To me the driving experience isn't so much about numbers as it is about how the car moves. Take an R35 for example, no one can deny the numbers, but to drive the car is a complete let-down (other than the go pedal).

Originally Posted by W///

To label them a flop makes no sense to me. Based on what?

Based on the comments, and the general idea of ///M, which has beauty as part of it IMO.

Originally Posted by W///

When these M's start becoming hybrids or BEV's, then we'll see how much of a "flop" these G gen cars are

Ah, by comparison. That's fair. But it's also fair to say that the F series of cars is more ///M by virtue of the fact that they are loved for more than their numbers.

[Humdizzle]

Originally Posted by zcp

I'm worried it just photographs poorly and it looks good in person lol. Or you know, it looks worse in person. I guess that's possible too. I posted this same thread on the G87 forum and everyone is in love with the car. I don't get it. A few people even said the G87 is better looking than the F87.

just browsed through that forum and wow. those guys are drunk on the koolaid and think everyone is going to dump their f87 when g87 reviews release this weekend

[DanG]

Originally Posted by Humdizzle

just browsed through that forum and wow. those guys are drunk on the koolaid and think everyone is going to dump their f87 when g87 reviews release this weekend

Hmm. Maybe it is just me but I have hardly broken in my M2 so I have zero interest in the G87. I do think it will handle well but is quite ugly.

[(K)]

I see a similar discussion pop up on Rennlist regarding the 718 vs 981 GT4. That's probably where we're headed with this new generation M2. Yes the new one will be faster and updated but likely at the cost of that raw, analog driving experience. How much of a cost is yet to be seen.

Additionally we also have the unique factor of aesthetics to consider.

[zcp]

There’s nothing “analog” or “raw” about the F87.
Coming from someone who’s owned 2 Comps and 2 OG’s.

[medphysdave]

Originally Posted by zcp

There’s nothing “analog” or “raw” about the F87.
Coming from someone who’s owned 2 Comps and 2 OG’s.

I think I'd lean towards agreement with this. When compared to most modern cars it's more raw. When compared to my old track prepped 93 Miata, with manual hydraulic steering, no traction control, stability control, or carpet. That car was pretty raw.

[Humdizzle]

looks like the G87 embargo will end sunday so we should see a flood of videos and reviews then. smoking tire has one in their possession and talked about the interior / exterior here: