[medphysdave]

Originally Posted by kepler

The M2 CS is largely a parts bin car (a very nice car, but mostly from the parts bin nevertheless). I think some of you may be overestimating how much money BMW put into research and design. I don't know that I'd describe it as a cash cow for BMW, but I highly doubt they did this project to break even or to realize only marginal profits. That just doesn't score well on the believability scale.

Exactly. BMW is n point with this new development strategy of development alongside the race division. This will significantly reduce development costs on the production performance line. Parts bin, plus race car parts means mostly chassis tuning for the street. Recent video eludes to a potentially less intrusive mdm mode for CS.

Edit: Margins are king, not the consumer

[Hegge]

Originally Posted by kepler

The M2 CS is largely a parts bin car (a very nice car, but mostly from the parts bin nevertheless). I think some of you may be overestimating how much money BMW put into research and design. I don't know that I'd describe it as a cash cow for BMW, but I highly doubt they did this project to break even or to realize only marginal profits. That just doesn't score well on the believability scale.

You can also say a GT3 is a parts bin car of the 911 Carrera. Parts bin or not, it is about the emotional attachment of the car. Speed and acceleration in addition to handling. No one needs a sports car, it is an emotional purchase.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by kepler

The M2 CS is largely a parts bin car (a very nice car, but mostly from the parts bin nevertheless). I think some of you may be overestimating how much money BMW put into research and design. I don't know that I'd describe it as a cash cow for BMW, but I highly doubt they did this project to break even or to realize only marginal profits. That just doesn't score well on the believability scale.

We know that, for the M2 Competition, BMW detuned the S55 engine of the M3/M4 to a 411hp output.

We also know that the M2 CS gets the S55 engine with exactly the same 450hp output and 550Nm torque of the S55 engine of the M3 Competition and M4 Competition (featuring the S55 engine of the M3 and M4 with a 19hp power bump: from 431hp to 450hp). The M3 CS and M4 CS got a retuned S55 engine with 460hp and 600Nm torque.

IMHO it's logical to consider that BMW spent way more time and money on properly integrating and testing the S55 engine fitted inside the F87 (previously powered by an N55 engine with 370hp output) to create the "M2 Competition" (redesigned F87 front end + adapting the S55 to F87 chassis dynamics, apart from all other changes such as particularly the exhaust layout and interior update) + detune it to 410hp output.

It would be interesting to hear from BMW engineers whether:

• they retuned the S55 engine of the M2 Competition from 411hp to 450hp;
• whether they saved time and money by simply fitting the M3 Competition / M4 Competition S55 engine without major tinkering (let's call it 'efficiency with resources', rather than 'plug 'n play with bin parts' ).

[Bimmed Out]

Originally Posted by Hegge

You can also say a GT3 is a parts bin car of the 911 Carrera.

Sure, if you are mentally ill or simply clueless.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by Hegge

You can also say a GT3 is a parts bin car of the 911 Carrera. Parts bin or not, it is about the emotional attachment of the car. Speed and acceleration in addition to handling. No one needs a sports car, it is an emotional purchase.

The E46 M3 CSL and 911 GT3: lots of surgery, spartan diet and some make-up. 'High maintenance' person though, compared to the 'regular' E46 M3 and 911 siblings.

The M2 CS: some surgery and lots of make-up plus a new hairdo. Great, and with a proper 'regular' sibling either, but considering itself a more 'high maintenance' and 'show-stopper' person than generally regarded.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Hegge

You can also say a GT3 is a parts bin car of the 911 Carrera. Parts bin or not, it is about the emotional attachment of the car. Speed and acceleration in addition to handling. No one needs a sports car, it is an emotional purchase.

His "parts bin" comment wasn't disparaging in nature. It was a cost-benefit analysis. Much of what you find in/on an M2CS came from its larger CS sibling.

[Hegge]

Originally Posted by kepler

Sure, if you are mentally ill or simply clueless.

No I am not mentally ill. People who do not like something and yet constantly degrade something are mentally ill. Maybe you need a nap or intervention. Why are you on this board?

I can afford a GT3 but I have housing costs that come first. An M2 is a good compromise while paying down housing costs.

[flybigjet]

Originally Posted by Hegge

I can afford a GT3 but I have housing costs that come first. An M2 is a good compromise while paying down housing costs.

Sleep in the car, get rid of the house, kill two birds with one stone?

Sorry, sorry-- couldn't resist.

R.

[///AVM]

Originally Posted by Hegge

No I am not mentally ill. People who do not like something and yet constantly degrade something are mentally ill. Maybe you need a nap or intervention. Why are you on this board?

I can afford a GT3 but I have housing costs that come first. An M2 is a good compromise while paying down housing costs.

Hegge

I agree. Reference to mental well-being not a great tact in engaging discussion.

Your statement about the GT3 representing a 'parts bin' is inaccurate and have to disagree.

Unrelated to mental well-being or the GT3, the M2CS is absolutely an over-priced parts bin.

I can afford my house payment and an GT3 or M2Cs . . . and would still take the M2C over both if I had to choose between the three. So, I do not think you have made a compromise at all in your ownership of the M2C.

//AVM

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Hegge

No I am not mentally ill. People who do not like something and yet constantly degrade something are mentally ill. Maybe you need a nap or intervention. Why are you on this board?

I can afford a GT3 but I have housing costs that come first. An M2 is a good compromise while paying down housing costs.

You're entirely too defensive for no reason.

[JustChris]

Originally Posted by kepler

Sure, if you are mentally ill or simply clueless.

Not cool to reference mental illness. A little snowflakey perhaps but you can't really put that out there these days.

I do get where you are coming from though.

Differing interpretations of 'parts bin' downed on whether a model is lower in the brands range and receives donor parts from higher cars or a more expensive R&D top of the brands performance range.

[Hegge]

Originally Posted by ///AVM

Hegge

I agree. Reference to mental well-being not a great tact in engaging discussion.

Your statement about the GT3 representing a 'parts bin' is inaccurate and have to disagree.

Unrelated to mental well-being or the GT3, the M2CS is absolutely an over-priced parts bin.

I can afford my house payment and an GT3 or M2Cs . . . and would still take the M2C over both if I had to choose between the three. So, I do not think you have made a compromise at all in your ownership of the M2C.

//AVM

Yes I agree that the CS is a parts bin car and definitely a little overpriced. Probably $10k too high. Bmw's in general are a bit of a compromise in general. Even my dealer told me, we are not as good as Porsche but we are a lot less money!

As of curiosity, I inquired about a 992 GT3 at my local dealer, and was told there are no lists. Allocations go to VIP customers first, and then whatever is remaining to the general public. The dealer then stated we often cannot satisfy our VIP customers.

[sdhotwn]

The last time people spent time deriding a parts bin special it was the now loved 1M.

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by ///AVM

Gimmean

Thank you for sharing that information. I knew SUVs were popular, but I had no idea they represented that number of sales for BMW.

It is amazing that car manufacturers even make cars anymore given the disproportionate rate SUVs are selling.

///AVM

Believe or not, BMW, The Ultimate Driving Machine, has been selling more SUVs than standard vehicles, over the last couple of years.

The 3 Series used to be BMW's bread-and-butter model but the SUVs, as a whole, has surpass that by a much larger margin.. #Sad

In a way, I kind of understand the SUV craze; the way how sitting high up makes you feel like you're dominating the road, is appealing to a lot of timid drivers.

Then also, the roads here, in the NorthEast, are a total hazard; with some craters half the size of your vehicle; so an SUV is much better at absorbing the road imperfections, with impunity, to the vehicle's wheel and suspension.

BMW has the largest SUV factory right here in South Carolina, USA, so they have a symbiotic relationship between the cost and profits.


https://carbuzz.com/news/mercedes-be...cars-this-year

[M2C_PLUS]

Originally Posted by kepler

Sure, if you are mentally ill or simply clueless.

:::

I love my parts bin GT3

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by BeastieBombRacing

I don’t know if anyone has mentioned it, but doesn’t it seem like the CS is kinda pricey for what you get?

Two examples as quick reality check:

1. over here in Belgium still not all 131 M2 CS cars are spoken for. Discounts are offered. Dragging itself to the 'sold out' status. To the speculators among those buyers: enjoy driving the car.
2. there's currently a brand new M4 CS for sale at a Belgian BMW M dealer. 3km on the odometer. San Marino Blue. €36,450 discount (± US$40,320), which is almost 29% off OEM list price for granted (without even sitting down at the dealership to negotiate).

[medphysdave]

From a value perspective these m4cs deals are amazing. I wish I were one of the folks lusting after one. Unfortunately it just doesn't do it for me.

Edit: I'm pretty sure I fight off the desire to DD a gt3 every day. I don't think my family would ride with me.

[medphysdave]

Looks like 75 units to Spain. Starting at €103k

https://espirituracer.com/noticias/e...ios-en-espana/

Anyone keeping count of allotments?

Belgium
Luxembourg
Netherlands
Ireland
Australia
South Africa
Spain
UK
Canada
France
Germany

[Pol]

Originally Posted by medphysdave

Looks like 75 units to Spain. Starting at €103k

https://espirituracer.com/noticias/e...ios-en-espana/

Anyone keeping count of allotments?

Belgium
Luxembourg
Netherlands
Ireland
Australia
South Africa
Spain
UK
Canada
France
Germany

131 for Belgium

[Conissah]

Belgium / Lux - 131
Netherlands
Ireland
Australia
South Africa
Spain - 75
UK - 104
Canada
France
Germany

So far, thats 310 cars. That's all I could easily find, others can chime in.

[medphysdave]

Belgium / Lux - 131
Netherlands
Ireland
Australia- 75
South Africa
Spain - 75
UK - 104
Canada
France
Germany
Switzerland

Added Switzerland to list.

75 for AU? https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1671456

385

[Mastertec]

My sales person in Vancouver said 120 coming to Canada.