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      12-17-2019, 11:48 AM   #23
Bumpinjeep
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Originally Posted by CosmosMpower View Post
You forget 90% of the people that buy these cars could not drive them close to the full potential on track anyway so the car is not the limiting factor.
In that case, get the M2, it's better in every way on the street, other than exclusivity of course.
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      12-17-2019, 03:48 PM   #24
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I am a former modded STI owner. 400 whp and suspension fully done with star spec tires. Outside of the track the M2C and any STI are not even apples and oranges never-mind apples to apples. One is a Japanese rally inspired boy racer tin can which I say in a good way. Its loud and rough and a lot of fun, but its plastic and rattles everywhere and you get eye rolls going the speed limit if you put that wing on there.

The M2C is a german luxury sport coupe. Loud and Refined and a lot of fun especially because it's RWD. Fits the standard of ultimate adult daily driver.

That all being said though comparing track numbers is really the worst thing you can go on as they are driven by pros who can actually get 97% out of the car. The point where most of us hit the track where we think we are about to piss our pants and we must be at 95% we are at 82%...

I suggest go for a long city drive in both cars and buy the one that makes you feel something.
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      12-17-2019, 05:02 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quikM2 View Post
I am a former modded STI owner. 400 whp and suspension fully done with star spec tires. Outside of the track the M2C and any STI are not even apples and oranges never-mind apples to apples. One is a Japanese rally inspired boy racer tin can which I say in a good way. Its loud and rough and a lot of fun, but its plastic and rattles everywhere and you get eye rolls going the speed limit if you put that wing on there.

The M2C is a german luxury sport coupe. Loud and Refined and a lot of fun especially because it's RWD. Fits the standard of ultimate adult daily driver.

That all being said though comparing track numbers is really the worst thing you can go on as they are driven by pros who can actually get 97% out of the car. The point where most of us hit the track where we think we are about to piss our pants and we must be at 95% we are at 82%...

I suggest go for a long city drive in both cars and buy the one that makes you feel something.
Agree with this.

And to add one more bit of advice, on that long street drive he mentions, if this is going to be a daily driver, don't fall for the complete tin can boy racer feel of the STI unless you are in that phase of your life. Try to really think about what gives you feels but is also a livable daily car. Coming from someone who had an Evo X back in the day that was highly modded and drove like it was on rails, while I loved that car, it got old really quick having to deal with the cheapness, rattling, harshness on a daily basis.

The M2C still gives me that thrill feel, but if I just want to relax on a drive, or want to feel refined, or want to not seem like a complete tool during normal life situations (loud exhaust plus wing plus other loud aspects of an STI that are hard to avoid), the M2C fits that bill perfectly. Essentially I don't have to sacrifice the performance and rawness fun in my daily for comfort/low profile like I would have to for a regular 3/5 series.
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      12-28-2019, 09:39 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heavyD^2 View Post
So your personal single experience trumps thousands of other people's experiences, class action lawsuits, documented failures, etc? I'm sure there are some Jeep owners that have never had issues with their vehicles but that doesn't stop Jeep from being one of the least reliable manufacturers annually.


I think you need to take a statistics class. What you obviously fail to realize is that for every internet (or other) complaint you can dig up, there is going to be hundreds, if not thousands of owners without any complaints. The fact that people with complaints tend to be the ones who are most vocal is also a reality. You clearly fall into the bandwagon camp of "the internet says it's junk, so it must be junk" groupthink.

Do you realize there are more trouble-free Jeep Grand Cherokees on the road than there are trouble-free Toyota 4Runners on the road? How is that possible when we all know that the 4Runner is more reliable overall than the Grand Cherokee? Well, statistics is our friend. Consider the fact that Jeep has historically sold three times the number of Grand Cherokees every year as compared to the 4Runner and then look at the reliability numbers again. It will become clear that there are more Grand Cherokees than there are 4Runners on the road without any issues at all.

Full disclosure: I'm currently on my third Grand Cherokee over the course of 8 years. Before that, I owned two 4Runners over the course of 12 years. Everyone on the 4Runner forum told me that I'd be sorry switching to the Jeep because I'd be at the dealership all the time. Ironically, none of my Jeeps have ever had a single issue. I wish I could say the same for my 4Runners. If you are wondering why I've had three Jeeps in 8 years, it's because my second one was totaled when I got rear-ended at a traffic light. I went out and purchased the same exact Jeep again as a replacement, right down to the color of the paint. So yeah, Jeep has been extremely reliable for me, despite what you might think of the brand's reliability. Statistics is the answer. Don't get hung up on internet stories because you rarely hear the good ones.
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      12-31-2019, 01:46 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RocketTR View Post
I think you need to take a statistics class. What you obviously fail to realize is that for every internet (or other) complaint you can dig up, there is going to be hundreds, if not thousands of owners without any complaints. The fact that people with complaints tend to be the ones who are most vocal is also a reality. You clearly fall into the bandwagon camp of "the internet says it's junk, so it must be junk" groupthink.

Do you realize there are more trouble-free Jeep Grand Cherokees on the road than there are trouble-free Toyota 4Runners on the road? How is that possible when we all know that the 4Runner is more reliable overall than the Grand Cherokee? Well, statistics is our friend. Consider the fact that Jeep has historically sold three times the number of Grand Cherokees every year as compared to the 4Runner and then look at the reliability numbers again. It will become clear that there are more Grand Cherokees than there are 4Runners on the road without any issues at all.

Full disclosure: I'm currently on my third Grand Cherokee over the course of 8 years. Before that, I owned two 4Runners over the course of 12 years. Everyone on the 4Runner forum told me that I'd be sorry switching to the Jeep because I'd be at the dealership all the time. Ironically, none of my Jeeps have ever had a single issue. I wish I could say the same for my 4Runners. If you are wondering why I've had three Jeeps in 8 years, it's because my second one was totaled when I got rear-ended at a traffic light. I went out and purchased the same exact Jeep again as a replacement, right down to the color of the paint. So yeah, Jeep has been extremely reliable for me, despite what you might think of the brand's reliability. Statistics is the answer. Don't get hung up on internet stories because you rarely hear the good ones.
I have thanks but in the case of Jeep it doesn't really matter as CR, JD power do the owner surveys and statistical compilations that show Jeep perennially at the bottom so we don't even have to bring forum complaints into the discussion. Unless you think we should ignore CR and JD power statistics and go by internet evidence of yours that the Jeep brand is very reliable but that would totally contradict your post.
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      01-01-2020, 03:59 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heavyD^2 View Post
I have thanks but in the case of Jeep it doesn't really matter as CR, JD power do the owner surveys and statistical compilations that show Jeep perennially at the bottom so we don't even have to bring forum complaints into the discussion. Unless you think we should ignore CR and JD power statistics and go by internet evidence of yours that the Jeep brand is very reliable but that would totally contradict your post.
This guy gives lip service to statistics but forms his argument on his own personal experience with fewer than 10 cars . If we’re going to count small sample size empirical evidence then it should be said that my mom’s Grand Cherokee with Pentastar V6 had a transmission failure 9000 miles into its life.

You’re right - the industry agrees Jeep is not highly reliable.
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      01-13-2020, 11:43 PM   #29
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I have 15 STi and picked up a M2C in September. I loved the STi when I got it, I'm usually the kind of person to cycle through cars and didn't expect to hang on to the STi as long as I have. When I got the M2C, I really expected to drive the STi more than I have. It has mostly sat while I drove the M2C. My original was to at least keep both and drive the STi in the winter, but the more I drive the M2C the more I just want to buy a set of winter tires for the M2C and drive it year round. By itself, I still really like the STi but for different reasons, but when I compare it to the M2C it's hard not to pick the M2C.

Like others have said, the M2C is really in a different class.
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