[sdhotwn]

Originally Posted by AlpsRider

When the M2 and M2C came out there were claims by BMW in their promotional material that there were improvements made to the shift linkage. I remember something about more precision with CF bushings. Given BMWs promotional track record, I don't know how true it was.

Will be interesting to see how it feels. When I test drove an OG M2 with manual I don't recall noticing anything significant over my F30. I had felt that my F30 was a BIG improvement in shifter function over previous E90 and E36's I had spent plenty of time in. Big reduction in the "rubbery" feel I previously associated with most BMW's. It still does not have the tight precise "snick" feel of other transmissions I have driven in some other cars - has more of a "soft touch coated hard plastic" feel in some ways. Throws were short enough, and precision is good enough that I rarely miss a shift (unlike my E36).

That all said, I didn't feel the shifter in the 2016 GT4 was any better, felt that it was pretty notchy/forced feeling. Felt they were equivalent but different basically. GT4 was more precise feeling, but less smooth in its operation - yet that is held up as one of the best manuals out there.

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by AlpsRider

When the M2 and M2C came out there were claims by BMW in their promotional material that there were improvements made to the shift linkage. I remember something about more precision with CF bushings. Given BMWs promotional track record, I don't know how true it was.

You're not dreaming, they did mention carbon friction lining at the synchronisation units but they just copy and paste the same literature, with every model.

And last time I checked, the manual transmission part number is common almost all BMWs, with the exception of the flywheel..


Carbon fibre shift friction lining https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1494596

[AlpsRider]

Originally Posted by sdhotwn

Will be interesting to see how it feels. When I test drove an OG M2 with manual I don't recall noticing anything significant over my F30. I had felt that my F30 was a BIG improvement in shifter function over previous E90 and E36's I had spent plenty of time in. Big reduction in the "rubbery" feel I previously associated with most BMW's. It still does not have the tight precise "snick" feel of other transmissions I have driven in some other cars - has more of a "soft touch coated hard plastic" feel in some ways. Throws were short enough, and precision is good enough that I rarely miss a shift (unlike my E36).

That all said, I didn't feel the shifter in the 2016 GT4 was any better, felt that it was pretty notchy/forced feeling. Felt they were equivalent but different basically. GT4 was more precise feeling, but less smooth in its operation - yet that is held up as one of the best manuals out there.

I'll have to admit that the MT shifter in my M2C felt rubbery at first. I changed it to the CF MPerformance shifter which made a big difference. It is shorter with a hard side grip knob. Now after almost 18k miles it has the "Snick" and I love shifting the beast.

[sdhotwn]

Originally Posted by AlpsRider

I'll have to admit that the MT shifter in my M2C felt rubbery at first. I changed it to the CF MPerformance shifter which made a big difference. It is shorter with a hard side grip knob. Now after almost 18k miles it has the "Snick" and I love shifting the beast.

Was it just the knob, or did it replace the linkage too? I have an MPerformance shift knob (I don't think it was more than that, but it's been a while now) on my 335 as well - stubby little knob with carbon fiber and alcantara sides. I think it feels and looks great, and there's no "wiggle" of the usual BMW shift knobs.

[medphysdave]

Neat video that relates to some of the discussion in this thread.

Porsche GT2 RS MR My Fastest Nurburgring Lap EVER…:

[///AVM]

Originally Posted by medphysdave

Neat video that relates to some of the discussion in this thread.

Porsche GT2 RS MR My Fastest Nurburgring Lap EVER…:

Dave

Thank you for sharing that video. . . I was on the edge of my couch holding on for dear life the entire time. The speed at which that GT2 RS was cutting through the course is insane . . . obviously a highly skilled driver who knows the track like the back of his hand. Still, the machine is an absolute track assassin.

Thank you again

///AVM

[medphysdave]

Since so many on this forum seem to compare to Porsche. Here's another one.

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...y-the-numbers/

[AlpsRider]

Originally Posted by sdhotwn

Was it just the knob, or did it replace the linkage too? I have an MPerformance shift knob (I don't think it was more than that, but it's been a while now) on my 335 as well - stubby little knob with carbon fiber and alcantara sides. I think it feels and looks great, and there's no "wiggle" of the usual BMW shift knobs.

It's just the knob like yours. I think that the 18k miles of driving has loosened up the linkage a bit. It was definitely stiff when it was new.

[Montaver]

Originally Posted by GoneIn4Secs

What dont you agree with in the assessment

Believe me you are wasting your time with this guy. He posts here purely to try and convince the rest of us how amazing his 4 cylinder 'real Sportscar' Porsche Cayman is. He's just not going to get it no matter what you say.

[F87EVO]

Originally Posted by Montaver

Believe me you are wasting your time with this guy. He posts here purely to try and convince the rest of us how amazing his 4 cylinder 'real Sportscar' Porsche Cayman is. He's just not going to get it no matter what you say.

well said.. maybe he haven't found place on rennlist.

[JCZ5]

For me personally, if I were getting a CS, I would go for the MT in terms of the driving experience, as well as for "investment" purposes.

If we learned anything from the CSL or any other collectible cars of the past, it's that MT does not age.

DCT may be pretty rapid, but in 10, 20, 30 years time, it will feel slow compared to whatever will be released in the future. One classic example is the F1 transmission in Ferrari's. I recall when it came up, reviewers raved about its quick response. Nowadays, it's considered the weak point in any Ferrari.

Now in reality, you should buy why you love, but that is not always the case for people buying LE cars.

Also, the 718 is not a real sports car 🤔? I would argue it's way more of a sports car than the M2C could ever be. Sure some may say it's aural execution is lacking, but that can hardly exclude it from being a performance capable machine.

[sdhotwn]

Originally Posted by JCZ5

For me personally, if I were getting a CS, I would go for the MT in terms of the driving experience, as well as for "investment" purposes.

If we learned anything from the CSL or any other collectible cars of the past, it's that MT does not age.

DCT may be pretty rapid, but in 10, 20, 30 years time, it will feel slow compared to whatever will be released in the future. One classic example is the F1 transmission in Ferrari's. I recall when it came up, reviewers raved about its quick response. Nowadays, it's considered the weak point in any Ferrari.

Now in reality, you should buy why you love, but that is not always the case for people buying LE cars.

Also, the 718 is not a real sports car ��? I would argue it's way more of a sports car than the M2C could ever be. Sure some may say it's aural execution is lacking, but that can hardly exclude it from being a performance capable machine.

Good points!

And while I understand some of the frustration around the perception of "P-Car apologists" I think the diversity of opinion is useful and adds some color the discussions at least. Bashing on fellow forum members doesn't really get us anywhere. I've raced in all sorts of different things, and just because I drove an open wheel formula car doesn't suddenly make every other car "not a race car" when I do other racing. For me, in fact, I enjoyed the seat time in the Miata cup cars more than I enjoyed the time in the formula cars. I've enjoyed my time in BMW's more than my time in McClaren's, Ferrari, and Lamborghini. When I've flogged a couple different GT3 and Cayman variants I found them all to be great cars on the track and "not that different" than most other things. Weight transfer and handling dynamics were commensurate with weight distribution and how the car was equipped. To me they are each unique fun pieces of automotive pie to enjoy. I've also passed, and been passed by some of everything on tracks in my E36. Depends on the day, track, driver, how hard I want to push, etc. I've blown the doors off a 570S, harassed a 997 GT3 for a fair number of laps on a tighter track, and others with my lowly E36. I've also been overtaken by a capable 718, lapped by 911's, and left standing still by a ZL1 Camaro. *shrug*

[JCZ5]

Originally Posted by sdhotwn

Good points!

And while I understand some of the frustration around the perception of "P-Car apologists" I think the diversity of opinion is useful and adds some color the discussions at least. Bashing on fellow forum members doesn't really get us anywhere. I've raced in all sorts of different things, and just because I drove an open wheel formula car doesn't suddenly make every other car "not a race car" when I do other racing. For me, in fact, I enjoyed the seat time in the Miata cup cars more than I enjoyed the time in the formula cars. I've enjoyed my time in BMW's more than my time in McClaren's, Ferrari, and Lamborghini. When I've flogged a couple different GT3 and Cayman variants I found them all to be great cars on the track and "not that different" than most other things. Weight transfer and handling dynamics were commensurate with weight distribution and how the car was equipped. To me they are each unique fun pieces of automotive pie to enjoy. I've also passed, and been passed by some of everything on track in my E36. I've blown the doors off a 570S, harassed a 997 GT3 for a fair number of laps on a tighter track, and others with my lowly E36, and been overtaken by a capable 718 and left standing still by a ZL1 Camaro. *shrug*

Agree 100%. The M2 forum should be better than calling out other forum members 👍

I've said it before, I have driven a 718, 991 and a future owner of a M2C. Yet, I still fondly
recall my experience with the ND Miata and that was a wonderful machine. I definitely had more fun in the Miata than any of the previous cars I listed. I will definitely be getting one in the future as an affordable, purely fun toy.

[Montaver]

Originally Posted by sdhotwn

Good points!

And while I understand some of the frustration around the perception of "P-Car apologists" I think the diversity of opinion is useful and adds some color the discussions at least. Bashing on fellow forum members doesn't really get us anywhere. I've raced in all sorts of different things, and just because I drove an open wheel formula car doesn't suddenly make every other car "not a race car" when I do other racing. For me, in fact, I enjoyed the seat time in the Miata cup cars more than I enjoyed the time in the formula cars. I've enjoyed my time in BMW's more than my time in McClaren's, Ferrari, and Lamborghini. When I've flogged a couple different GT3 and Cayman variants I found them all to be great cars on the track and "not that different" than most other things. Weight transfer and handling dynamics were commensurate with weight distribution and how the car was equipped. To me they are each unique fun pieces of automotive pie to enjoy. I've also passed, and been passed by some of everything on tracks in my E36. Depends on the day, track, driver, how hard I want to push, etc. I've blown the doors off a 570S, harassed a 997 GT3 for a fair number of laps on a tighter track, and others with my lowly E36. I've also been overtaken by a capable 718, lapped by 911's, and left standing still by a ZL1 Camaro. *shrug*

Good post, appreciate sharing the circuit experience.

However this is bimmerpost, and specifically the M2 forum. I'm all for discussion around driving dynamics, mods, tech, you name it. But the constant chatter about Pcars on here is not valuable discussion. Take two pages on this thread talking about how 'PDK in my Cayman is the greatest gearbox ever, here's why'. Sure, maybe it is. If you want to discuss PDK gearboxes there is an ENTIRE FORUM dedicated to Porsches called Rennlist. Its sophisticated trolling wrapped up in verbose language.

I can summarize a lot of the posts regarding Porsches into the following -

'I own a Cayman, its a dedicated 'sportscar' BMW are too big and heavy' - Cool, go talk about Caymans with your Cayman buddies. Anyone who tracks their car well knows $ for $ BMW's are extremely competitive. So why are we not talking about how much value for performance f8x cars are and they have a fantastic platform to build from? (chassis, weight distribution, M differential etc.) Name me one other mainstream manufacturer that does it as well as BMW. There isnt one, but instead of focusing on how BMW builds exceptional flexible platforms its 'oh but my Cayman does XXXXX...'.

'A GT4 is only $30k more, why not buy that'? - A Patek is only $30k more than a Rolex, why not buy that?

'BMW have lost their way, they don't cater for enthusiasts' then in the same breath talk about $100k 4 cylinder Caymans?

There seems to be a subset of people who only come on here to talk about how Porsche does it better. No one is saying Porsche don't do things better, but the CONSTANT comparison isn't interesting or illuminating.

I'm going to spend all day on Rennlist talking about how McLaren does everything better. I'd expect to be banned very quickly.

[sdhotwn]

Originally Posted by Montaver

Good post, appreciate sharing the circuit experience.

However this is bimmerpost, and specifically the M2 forum. I'm all for discussion around driving dynamics, mods, tech, you name it. But the constant chatter about Pcars on here is not valuable discussion. Take two pages on this thread talking about how 'PDK in my Cayman is the greatest gearbox ever, here's why'. Sure, maybe it is. If you want to discuss PDK gearboxes there is an ENTIRE FORUM dedicated to Porsches called Rennlist. Its sophisticated trolling wrapped up in verbose language.

I can summarize a lot of the posts regarding Porsches into the following -

'I own a Cayman, its a dedicated 'sportscar' BMW are too big and heavy' - Cool, go talk about Caymans with your Cayman buddies. Anyone who tracks their car well knows $ for $ BMW's are extremely competitive. So why are we not talking about how much value for performance f8x cars are and they have a fantastic platform to build from? (chassis, weight distribution, M differential etc.) Name me one other mainstream manufacturer that does it as well as BMW. There isnt one, but instead of focusing on how BMW builds exceptional flexible platforms its 'oh but my Cayman does XXXXX...'.

'A GT4 is only $30k more, why not buy that'? - A Patek is only $30k more than a Rolex, why not buy that?

'BMW have lost their way, they don't cater for enthusiasts' then in the same breath talk about $100k 4 cylinder Caymans?

There seems to be a subset of people who only come on here to talk about how Porsche does it better. No one is saying Porsche don't do things better, but the CONSTANT comparison isn't interesting or illuminating.

I'm going to spend all day on Rennlist talking about how McLaren does everything better. I'd expect to be banned very quickly.

If you are going to go down that path you can't buy more fun for less new dollars than a miata and you'd be hard pressed for outright track times and handling for less dollars than the Camaros. Every topic and argument is a spectrum and saying we should only stick to Bavarian blue in discussing pros and cons is pretty narrow.

[Montaver]

Originally Posted by sdhotwn

If you are going to go down that path you can't buy more fun for less new dollars than a miata and you'd be hard pressed for outright track times and handling for less dollars than the Camaros. Every topic and argument is a spectrum and saying we should only stick to Bavarian blue in discussing pros and cons is pretty narrow.

That's an interesting discussion. Miatas are great if you want cheap track time and don't care about going fast. Similarly US performance cars have come a long way and can put down impressive times.

It's very different to the constant 'But I own a Porsche and they do XXXX better than BMW'.

If people cant see the nuance there really isn't much else I can say.

[medphysdave]

Originally Posted by Montaver

That's an interesting discussion. Miatas are great if you want cheap track time and don't care about going fast. Similarly US performance cars have come a long way and can put down impressive times.

It's very different to the constant 'But I own a Porsche and they do XXXX better than BMW'.

If people cant see the nuance there really isn't much else I can say.

I really appreciate the discussion with members experience in other rides. The P car discussion comes up mainly due to price point. I'm willing to bet that most shopping in the $150k+ US range don't frequent this forum with intent to add much. If . If your shopping for a new McLaren, or other high priced poison, you may not be interested in a run of the mill 992 turbo S despite the impressive performance numbers.

Affordability drives the comparisons. Not to be confused with inexpensive.

[sdhotwn]

Originally Posted by Montaver

If people cant see the nuance there really isn't much else I can say.

Hah! Now there is a nail to bash on the head a few more times!!!

Along the lines of the discussion, one of the most intriguing things of late in these cars was the Supra putting down a better time at Laguna than the M2C at the hands of Randy Pobst, and that was a launch edition before they did the upgrades. You lose the rear seats, and are stuck with an auto-box, but great value, and lots of BMW bits .

[Montaver]

Originally Posted by sdhotwn

Hah! Now there is a nail to bash on the head a few more times!!!

Along the lines of the discussion, one of the most intriguing things of late in these cars was the Supra putting down a better time at Laguna than the M2C at the hands of Randy Pobst, and that was a launch edition before they did the upgrades. You lose the rear seats, and are stuck with an auto-box, but great value, and lots of BMW bits .

The supra was on 255/275 vs 245/265 which id wager accounted for a lot of the difference.

The supra is a weird car in that it's aimed at enthusiasts; but doesn't come with a manual. I suspect Toyota has a manual trans version up their sleeve. Combine that with sorted rear suspension and a solution for the wind buffeting and it becomes a very attractive proposition, I'd certainly take it over the price equivalent 4 cylinder Cayman for the engine alone. The B58 particularly in 380bhp guise is a quality motor.

[seis-speed]

Originally Posted by medphysdave

I really appreciate the discussion with members experience in other rides. The P car discussion comes up mainly due to price point. I'm willing to bet that most shopping in the $150k+ US range don't frequent this forum with intent to add much. If . If your shopping for a new McLaren, or other high priced poison, you may not be interested in a run of the mill 992 turbo S despite the impressive performance numbers.

Affordability drives the comparisons. Not to be confused with inexpensive.

I can tell you as someone that has daily driven a 911 over the past year.....

They are different cars. BMW gets slammed, because the cars are built off of the 2-3-4 series, but people just dismiss, that because of that, they are as practical as a 2-3-4 series. The pedigree and commitment to motorsport by Porsche is second to none, but for a daily, fun car, that can be used in a practical nature, Mcars are way underrated IMO. I just wish they capitalized on that practicality more. M2 with four doors, wagons, etc....

I never slam M-cars, because they are do it all weapons, IMO, that still offer a manual transmission. If you want to discuss, PM me and I can tell you whatever you want, pro/con.

[FrozenB7]

Originally Posted by JCZ5

For me personally, if I were getting a CS, I would go for the MT in terms of the driving experience, as well as for "investment" purposes.

If we learned anything from the CSL or any other collectible cars of the past, it's that MT does not age.

DCT may be pretty rapid, but in 10, 20, 30 years time, it will feel slow compared to whatever will be released in the future. One classic example is the F1 transmission in Ferrari's. I recall when it came up, reviewers raved about its quick response. Nowadays, it's considered the weak point in any Ferrari.

Now in reality, you should buy why you love, but that is not always the case for people buying LE cars.

Also, the 718 is not a real sports car 🤔? I would argue it's way more of a sports car than the M2C could ever be. Sure some may say it's aural execution is lacking, but that can hardly exclude it from being a performance capable machine.

Very well stated.

[FrozenB7]

Originally Posted by JCZ5

For me personally, if I were getting a CS, I would go for the MT in terms of the driving experience, as well as for "investment" purposes.

If we learned anything from the CSL or any other collectible cars of the past, it's that MT does not age.

DCT may be pretty rapid, but in 10, 20, 30 years time, it will feel slow compared to whatever will be released in the future. One classic example is the F1 transmission in Ferrari's. I recall when it came up, reviewers raved about its quick response. Nowadays, it's considered the weak point in any Ferrari.

Now in reality, you should buy why you love, but that is not always the case for people buying LE cars.

Also, the 718 is not a real sports car 🤔? I would argue it's way more of a sports car than the M2C could ever be. Sure some may say it's aural execution is lacking, but that can hardly exclude it from being a performance capable machine.

Originally Posted by medphysdave

I really appreciate the discussion with members experience in other rides. The P car discussion comes up mainly due to price point. I'm willing to bet that most shopping in the $150k+ US range don't frequent this forum with intent to add much. If . If your shopping for a new McLaren, or other high priced poison, you may not be interested in a run of the mill 992 turbo S despite the impressive performance numbers.

Affordability drives the comparisons. Not to be confused with inexpensive.

BMW have made and continue to make some very unique cars that appeal to a wide variety of enthusiasts. I think in the future, only the deepest pockets will be able to afford BMW's greatest hits.

I just spent way too much money adding a 5,000 mile E46 M3 to the stable. Looking forward to parking the M2 CS beside it.

Not much of the new 'high priced poison' really appeals to me; everything is automatic and over-the-top. I feel like I showed up to the party after everyone left. Oh, to go back in time and be able to purchase an E39 M5, Z8, 550 Maranello and Diablo new in the same year.

M2 CS isn't an E46 but at least it's a very cool enthusiast car that I can still shift myself. There isn't much out there like that. 992 is giant and air cooled is more fun. 718 electric steering isn't perfect but at least it's pretty and accessible. McLaren barely useable on street. Ferrari, Lamborghini auto only, too fast and you're rolling with 'that crowd.'

Awesome that BMW continues to offer this experience for a dwindling market of nutty driving enthusiasts. I love hearing early reports that the torque of the S55 is tough to control with a manual. I *******love it; sounds like a ridiculous pairing which is why it's the only correct answer (at least in this limited edition M2).