[Moflow]

Originally Posted by ///AVM

GoneIn4

I just want to be clear . . . I do NOT think the DCT is lacking in function. In fact, it is a great transmission.

MY opinion is the BMW chassis have become too big/heavy to enjoy DCT manual mode.

This is NOT me 'slagging' my M2C either . . . great sporty coupe! I simply prefer the DCT automatic mode over manual mode.

I realize many have their own views that are not in agreement with those of my own . . . accepted on my part.

//AVM

The more I drive the M2C, the less I think of it as a sports car and the more I think of it as some kind of coupe/muscle car hybrid. Its too small and doesn't have the requisite V8 rumble to be a true muscle car, but its attitude is very similar. It wants to be bad. The upside is that its way way more controllable than any real muscle car when its doing those bad things. Also it genuinely works pretty well on a twisty road.

[GoneIn4Secs]

Originally Posted by ///AVM

GoneIn4

I just want to be clear . . . I do NOT think the DCT is lacking in function. In fact, it is a great transmission.

MY opinion is the BMW chassis have become too big/heavy to enjoy DCT manual mode.

This is NOT me 'slagging' my M2C either . . . great sporty coupe! I simply prefer the DCT automatic mode over manual mode.

I realize many have their own views that are not in agreement with those of my own . . . accepted on my part.

//AVM

I run a n55 with dinan stage 4 tune and a mpe on mp suspension

This coupled with the dct, in manual mode is.... nirvana

The whole car feels very light and nimble, and sounds like a muscle/ferrari hybrid

Ive had great drives this summer, i wouldn't change a thing with this gearbox. I feel instant torque, and this is all without having the need to put it into sport+,

Even that jerkyness of first gear has seem to corrected itself over time, its all about throttle modulation

Im telling you, the last few drives ive just been amazed i have this car. I understand what you say about the dct prefer in auto vs manual, but as you get to known the car more , it comes alive,

Also having the option to put it into auto and eat a burrito and drink while driving cant be understated either!

[///AVM]

Originally Posted by Moflow

The more I drive the M2C, the less I think of it as a sports car and the more I think of it as some kind of coupe/muscle car hybrid. Its too small and doesn't have the requisite V8 rumble to be a true muscle car, but its attitude is very similar. It wants to be bad. The upside is that its way way more controllable than any real muscle car when its doing those bad things. Also it genuinely works pretty well on a twisty road.

Mo

I think that is a truly perfect assessment . . . if I am going to drive a Shelby GT, it damn well better rumble like one . . . if I am going to drive a Porsche sport car, it damn well better handle like one. . . if I am going to drive a Tesla, it damn well better pull like one.

The M2C is a nice blend of features that make it a great sporty coup. Exactly what I anticipated and exactly what I got.

Sadly, despite its size and weight problem, the M2C is still the smallest BMW chassis - and certain to not get any smaller or lighter. The 'ICE age' is coming to an end, along with the acoustic thrill as you climb to red line - that has pretty much already been lost with turbo engines anyway. Automatic transmissions are incredible and capable of matching a driver's spirited desires. . . All of these factors are making the MT and DCT obsolete.

I do not blame BMW for their decided direction, as it is just where things are going. . . . what I can - and do - blame BMW for is losing their way when it comes to design, but that topic has yet to become reality on the M2 sub-forum.

///AVM

[///AVM]

Originally Posted by GoneIn4Secs

I run a n55 with dinan stage 4 tune and a mpe on mp suspension

This coupled with the dct, in manual mode is.... nirvana

The whole car feels very light and nimble, and sounds like a muscle/ferrari hybrid

Ive had great drives this summer, i wouldn't change a thing with this gearbox. I feel instant torque, and this is all without having the need to put it into sport+,

Even that jerkyness of first gear has seem to corrected itself over time, its all about throttle modulation

Im telling you, the last few drives ive just been amazed i have this car. I understand what you say about the dct prefer in auto vs manual, but as you get to known the car more , it comes alive,

Also having the option to put it into auto and eat a burrito and drink while driving cant be understated either!

GoneIn4

I love it. I love your enthusiasm. I would not try to change it for a moment.

Even though I do not agree with your assessment through my own experiences, I do absolutely enjoy what my M2C has to offer. . . if I want a different driving experience, well, I have that too.

Enjoy your summer months out on the open roads my friend!

///AVM

[GoneIn4Secs]

Originally Posted by ///AVM

GoneIn4

I love it. I love your enthusiasm. I would not try to change it for a moment.

Even though I do not agree with your assessment through my own experiences, I do absolutely enjoy what my M2C has to offer. . . if I want a different driving experience, well, I have that too.

Enjoy your summer months out on the open roads my friend!

///AVM

What dont you agree with in the assessment

[///AVM]

Originally Posted by GoneIn4Secs

What dont you agree with in the assessment

GoneIn4

I think I pretty well state my perspective in post #2140 above . . .

DCT manual mode simply does not inspire me in the M2C chassis. I do, however, find the automatic (Sport Pus) mode well suited for the M2C chassis.

Again, my comments are not intended to change your perspective. If you find enjoyment with DCT manual mode - and you clearly do - that is all that matters.

///AVM

[medphysdave]

Would certainly like to hear the 6MT guys chime in, but crickets, hmmmm

[Conissah]

Originally Posted by medphysdave

Would certainly like to hear the 6MT guys chime in, but crickets, hmmmm

The manual is not the greatest I've driven, but it's still pretty darn good. I'll take 'darn good' manual experience over any form of auto tranny. I've driven 2 DCT cars, a 911 Turbo S and a couple GTRs, and while they're awesome to drive fast and let the car just absolutely RIP through the gears, I have tons more fun just zipping around in the M2 rowing through gears. My favorite is a 1-4, shifting at 4000-4500. I don't have to be going to jail speeds to have a great time. If I want to slow it down, the M2 practically drives itself, it increases the revs as the clutch is let out to help take off, it has hill assist, and it rev matches. A CDV-less slave is on my list of upgrades, as the engagement point is always in a different place because of it, but it's a hoot to drive regardless.

If you're on the fence, you're more than welcome to take my M for a drive, and get a feel for the 6MT.

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by Conissah

The manual is not the greatest I've driven, but it's still pretty darn good. I'll take 'darn good' manual experience over any form of auto tranny.

Excellent choice

I, myself, If I'm getting anything in the M2 platform, it has to be a manual..

When I get so old and I can't move my neck horizontally anymore, then I'll settle for an ZF8 auto/paddles, 5 Series, with Lane Change Assistance..

[Davil]

Originally Posted by Hegge

Just wondering why you are not interested in a Cayman GT4? I may be interested in a GT4 if it gets the PDK.

Ugly, too small and not very good as a road car. For a dedicated track car it would be great though.

I like that M cars are hoon cars. For me they deliver more driving enjoyment on the road with the benefit of a lot more practicality and without the Porsche image problems.

[seis-speed]

Originally Posted by medphysdave

Would certainly like to hear the 6MT guys chime in, but crickets, hmmmm

OK.

6MT is a no-brainer on this car.

It is absurd not to order it. Last (manual transmission + manual handbrake) German car and will be way more valuable down the road than DCT.

We are thinking it, just feel bad saying it.

[F87EVO]

Originally Posted by seis-speed

OK.

6MT is a no-brainer on this car.

It is absurd not to order it. Last (manual transmission + manual handbrake) German car and will be way more valuable down the road than DCT.

We are thinking it, just feel bad saying it.

What is was thinking when i ordered the CS . Actually the reason why i changed my OG M2 , the main one , was that i needed to have an M car with manual transmition , and with a proper handbrake , with a 3.0l Straight Six , rear wheel drive , and there comes the CS with all those , being the best M2 variant , being a limited edition , it was a must buy for me . Ticked all the boxes . DCT would be great too , but one day it will be seemed just like we see now the SMG , and my experience with it driving it for the last 2 years , its boring man , you dont do anything , pressing a button to change gears is so different than trying to balance the clutch and change your own gear , the involvement is what i missed about that car , but now a manual CS is coming in less than a month !

Instant isn't always better !

[medphysdave]

I'm in the 6mt camp and likely couldn't be swayed, but I'm also not chasing lap times. I want something a little more engaging during my daily commute. If I really don't want to shift it's probably got enough tq to start in second gear where I could leave it for my stop and go activities.

I enjoy the balanced discussion.

[///AVM]

Originally Posted by medphysdave

I'm in the 6mt camp and likely couldn't be swayed, but I'm also not chasing lap times. I want something a little more engaging during my daily commute. If I really don't want to shift it's probably got enough tq to start in second gear where I could leave it for my stop and go activities.

I enjoy the balanced discussion.

The topic of DCT vs MT is no different than the topic of M2C vs M2CS . . . if you want it, then get it.

That sounds curt, but not intended to be such. When it is your money and your car, you get what you want . . . does not have to make sense to anyone else.

///AVM

[sdhotwn]

I'll try to dig it up if someone doesn't have the answer - but is the 6MT in these M2's the same as in my F30 335? I find it to be one of the better BMW manuals, and thoroughly enjoy it. If the CS manual is at least that good I'll be a happy camper.

EDIT: (according to real OEM it looks like the same transmission in the M2C and my 2014 335 - GS6-45BZ).

[Conissah]

Originally Posted by Turbomeister

Instant isn't always better !

Literally used that line the other day when one of my Supra buddies went on about how "autos are faster and win races." Best line ever.

[medphysdave]

Originally Posted by sdhotwn

I'll try to dig it up if someone doesn't have the answer - but is the 6MT in these M2's the same as in my F30 335? I find it to be one of the better BMW manuals, and thoroughly enjoy it. If the CS manual is at least that good I'll be a happy camper.

EDIT: (according to real OEM it looks like the same transmission in the M2C and my 2014 335 - GS6-45BZ).

I'm curious about tge 6MT versions. I tried to do some digging into the historical progression, but came up empty handed. I doubt any changes were added for the CS, but wonder when the last significant performance overhaul occured?

[sdhotwn]

Originally Posted by medphysdave

I'm curious about tge 6MT versions. I tried to do some digging into the historical progression, but came up empty handed. I doubt any changes were added for the CS, but wonder when the last significant performance overhaul occured?

In my searching there was a switch at the N54 to N55 engine (GS6-53DZ to GS6-45BZ). Since the N55 everything has been on the same manual transmission in the 2 and 3 series at least from what I can see. It seems like the newer transmission is preferred over what was attached to the N54 as there were multiple threads I stumbled on with discussions on how to swap to the newer 6 speed. I didn't find much on ratings for the 6 speed for power holding, or if any shifting improvements/revisions were made at any point or not (thought I saw a mention in one of the CS reviews about some kind of updated synchro treatment).

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by sdhotwn

EDIT: (according to real OEM it looks like the same transmission in the M2C and my 2014 335 - GS6-45BZ).

Yes, the manual transmission are the same part number, as the standard models. Only the flywheel in the M models are lighten.

[CSBM5]

The specific part numbers are different for the GS6-45BZ between the 340i version and M2/M3/M4 versions likely at least for gearing differences perhaps.

[seis-speed]

Originally Posted by medphysdave

I'm in the 6mt camp and likely couldn't be swayed, but I'm also not chasing lap times. I want something a little more engaging during my daily commute. If I really don't want to shift it's probably got enough tq to start in second gear where I could leave it for my stop and go activities.

I enjoy the balanced discussion.

Modern 6MT's 911's/BMW's with rev-matching are as easy as every to drive. Hill hold, etc... it really is not tough. Clutches are light and boxes are geared so that it is can be driven easy in traffic. It costs less, weighs less, generally is much more valuable and desirable in the resale market, (see GT3 PDK cars) and in this case might be the only BMW CS to ever be offered in 6MT. It also is an analogue feature that keeps one connected to the modern car that is becoming less and less analogue.

Also, in North America, the M2 manual has a 50% take rate, which is staggering, that is with dealers almost always ordering the DCT at the higher price. M2 buyers, the people that like the M2, and order the M2, are ordering manuals at a very high rate.

Just my $.02

[AlpsRider]

When the M2 and M2C came out there were claims by BMW in their promotional material that there were improvements made to the shift linkage. I remember something about more precision with CF bushings. Given BMWs promotional track record, I don't know how true it was.