[sdhotwn]

Originally Posted by AlpsRider

Yes, there are lots of levels of coilovers. Usually the serious track guys rip out the adaptive suspension and install some good coilovers.

Right! If you are serious about the track, you'd replace all sorts of things, or arguably start with something totally different. Building a dedicated track car, the CS is the wrong thing to be starting from. If only they made something like a CS Racing...

If I wanted an M2 for moderate to heavy track duty, but still wanted some street use then I'd definitely get a Competition instead and modify. For bone stock and occasional track use, though, the CS was perfect for my wants.

[AlpsRider]

Don't get me wrong 😉. I'd rather have a CS than a C. I hope your car makes it across the pond soon!

[sdhotwn]

Originally Posted by AlpsRider

Don't get me wrong 😉. I'd rather have a CS than a C. I hope your car makes it across the pond soon!

Nothing taken negative here, I think both models are great. I don't deny in any way the amazing value proposition the competition is. If I had different needs and intent that'd be my car in a heartbeat. The CS just fit me like a glove on the check boxes. I am everything of their target demographic I guess!

[medphysdave]

Originally Posted by sdhotwn

Right, if serious about track, you'd replace all sorts of things, or arguably start with something totally different. Building a dedicated track car, the CS is the wrong thing to be starting from. If only they made something like a CS Racing....

If I wanted an M2 for moderate to heavy track duty, but still wanted some street use then I'd definitely get a Competition instead and modify. For bone stock and occasional track use, though, the CS was perfect for my wants.

This......I don't think the CS folks are disillusioned about the CS limitations. They just know what they want, and price is lower weighted variable.

[flybigjet]

Originally Posted by AlpsRider

Don't get me wrong 😉. I'd rather have a CS than a C. I hope your car makes it across the pond soon!

Proof that there's a reason for diversity in the model line--

I'm on the opposite end of the spectrum-- I'd much rather have my C and an extra $25k to put in the bank (and spend some on parts to personalize the car how *I* want it).

If I had a CS, I'd probably have to leave it bone stock as a "collectable". I'd much rather change the things I'm not fond of on the C.

But, either way, either one's a winner in your garage!

[sdhotwn]

Originally Posted by flybigjet

Proof that there's a reason for diversity in the model line--

I'm on the opposite end of the spectrum-- I'd much rather have my C and an extra $25k to put in the bank (and spend some on parts to personalize the car how *I* want it).

If I had a CS, I'd probably have to leave it bone stock as a "collectable". I'd much rather change the things I'm not fond of on the C.

But, either way, either one's a winner in your garage!

I totally agree with this sentiment. If it was a car I was going to modify from stock I would not buy the CS. I have two other cars to mess around with for that! There are a lot of great bases to work from for personalizing and making a great "you" car out there for a LOT less money than the CS. If you are going for "built not bought" the CS ain't it! All my tinkering time and money goes into my E36 right now as I continue to clean that up since the values keep rising. I enjoy making something old nice again. My F30 is the "how can I fix all the things BMW didn't get right" car...

[Hegge]

Originally Posted by medphysdave

This......I don't think the CS folks are disillusioned about the CS limitations. They just know what they want, and price is lower weighted variable.

Yes this is correct. Plus if a Cayman GT4 with PDK ever happens, my option sheet would be around $120K. However, my M2 CS with options with be about $88K (no CCBs). So it is cheaper by at least $30K.

[FrozenB7]

Originally Posted by Hegge

Yes this is correct. Plus if a Cayman GT4 with PDK ever happens, my option sheet would be around $120K. However, my M2 CS with options with be about $88K (no CCBs). So it is cheaper by at least $30K.

I really hope not too many people order this car with an automatic.

[sdhotwn]

Originally Posted by FrozenB7

I really hope not too many people order this car with an automatic.

I'd wager fifty percent or so in the US. I think current M cars are some where in the 20-30%range for manuals.

[medphysdave]

Originally Posted by sdhotwn

I'd wager fifty percent or so in the US. I think current M cars are some where in the 20-30%range for manuals.

Especially with recent reviews appearing to state the 6MT isn't a good fit for this car. However, I haven't been able to tease through the translations to understand why. I think it's because the DCT allows for a different level of intensity that can't be matched by the manual due to slower speed shifting that results in large rpm drop between gears. However, my experience is that MT is a lot of fun at lower intensity exercises.

[sdhotwn]

One source saying really low (17% for M4)

https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/20...ve-bmw-m-cars/

One source saying high on the M2 ~50%

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a2...ssionsfor-now/

[AlpsRider]

I've read that the 6MT is about 50% popular in the US too.
The thing is that the CS and the M2C are just about the last BMWs to get the DCT. Although I prefer a manual, you can't really go wrong with a DCT.

[CSBM5]

Originally Posted by AlpsRider

I've read that the 6MT is about 50% popular in the US too.
The thing is that the CS and the M2C are just about the last BMWs to get the DCT. Although I prefer a manual, you can't really go wrong with a DCT.

I think it's true to state this *is* the last BMW to be released with a DCT. That fact likely means (long term) both the 6MT and DCT versions will carry similar demand. Next up M2 automatic will be with a torque convertor.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by CSBM5

I think it's true to state this *is* the last BMW to be released with a DCT. That fact likely means (long term) both the 6MT and DCT versions will carry similar demand. Next up M2 automatic will be with a torque convertor.

M2 CS = final curtain call for the M-DCT. The end of a gearbox generation.

[Hegge]

Originally Posted by Artemis

M2 CS = final curtain call for the M-DCT. The end of a gearbox generation.

Yes this is going to be bad news. One year from now people will be complaining about the automatic transmission in the new M3/M4 and eventually new M2.

[///AVM]

Prior to taking ownership of my M2C I was loosely attentive to this topic of discussion regarding discontinuation of DCT, but it was really not clear to me as to WHY? Also, my impression is that BMW will be discarding the MT? . . . please correct me if I am mistaken on this latter comment.

What I am about to state is just personal opinion and I doubt many are going to agree, which is perfectly fine. I'm not expressing my views as to try and convince anyone my views are correct.

I was a long-time MT fanboy converted into a huge PDK manual mode fan. PDK manual mode allows control over shift points and ability to power shift, which I find incredibly engaging and optimized for spirited performance. I use the gear shifter, as opposed to the paddles, because it pacifies the inner MT fanboy in me - I do not miss the clutch.

Overall, my enthrallment with PDK manual mode is attached to fact that my 718 CGTS is true sport car. Light, nimble, loves to be revved to redline . . . just seems to be the manner in which it was meant to be driven.

Enter the M2C. I thought for certain I would find manual mode just as engaging as with PDK in my GTS. To date, however, such has not been the case. Why? I THINK a lot has to do with the size, handling and overall characteristics that simply make it seem more like a sporty coupe than a sport car.

Manual mode simply does not feel as engaging and fulfilling in the M2C as I had hoped. For the same reason, I am quite certain a MT would come up similarly flat. In summary, so far, I find the most enjoyment with my M2C in automatic mode, Sport Plus across the board.

So, my opinion on the matter - answering my opening question as to 'why' - is that (1) BMW chassis are just getting too big and heavy to truly enjoy a MT or DCT in manual mode; (2) the era of ICE is coming to an end, and the audible thrill of revving the engine to redline - controlling shift points according to audible cues - is coming to an end; (3) automatic transmissions have gotten incredibly efficient at matching performance 'intensity.'

Getting back PDK for a moment, nearly everyone knows most 911 PDK offerings no longer come with the option to use gear shifter in manual mode - only paddles. I kind of find the paddles a form of 'no-mans land' when it comes to engagement. At any rate, I wonder if Porsche is also preparing its enthusiasts for the end of an 'ICE age' . . . for the end of PDK?

Anyway, just some of my thoughts on this topic.

///AVM

[CSBM5]

BMW made the statement a while back (with the latest M5 coming) that DCT couldn't handle the power output required but the new ZF torque convertor automatic could. Of course this was a statement of fact about their "current" DCT gearbox, but many took it to mean "DCT transmissions", in general, weren't capable of handling the power level of the then coming M5. This was quickly countered, in the press too, that BMW simply was not going to invest the R&D funds to design (joint design with transmission firm) a new, higher capacity DCT, yet they didn't want to phrase it that way.

PDK has always been a much better engineered DCT-type transmission. Just look at the interview with Wolfgang Hatz by R&T magazine about the PDK "limit" for doing consecutive launch control starts (0-100mph in this case): ""There is no limit." ed:
That's what Porsche chief propeller-head Wolfgang Hatz said when someone asked him how many violent, Bugatti-quick launches the 911 Turbo S can perform before grenading itself.
"You have to have very intelligent cooling for the clutches," explained Hatz, "and choose the right material." The 911's clutches are bathed in oil, which is cooled, as are all the car's powertrain fluids. Hatz added that those Porsche-designed and ZF-built clutches are considered lifetime parts, good for well over 100,000 miles. "

Here's the article link. No DCT could ever do this, not even close. I don't own one, but how many launches does it give...2 or 3 maybe before it is overheated and won't allow more? The PDK design is awesome by comparison.

[sdhotwn]

I just haven't been able to bring myself to the idea of a DCT in a "fun" car. Nevermind that I have thoroughly enjoyed even the Sport Auto slushbox in some of the newer BMW's, and don't have any issue with the technical prowess of the new transmissions. I also believe that for track driving the DCT and the like are, in many ways, superior for getting a better lap time, concentrating on fewer variables etc. It's that silly, unjustifiable, desire on my part to row the gears, blip the throttle for no good reason, screw up a shift occasionally, etc that I enjoy. BMW manuals aren't that great (I frankly enjoyed the manuals in my Mazda's previously more!), on top of it so it's not like this is an amazing example, yet I still can't bear the idea of going DCT while at the same time realizing that it's not the best transmission for the capabilities of the car. It's not that I think the DCT isn't better, it's just that I want to be archaic for no good reason basically.

[JustChris]

Originally Posted by Hegge

Yes this is going to be bad news. One year from now people will be complaining about the automatic transmission in the new M3/M4 and eventually new M2.

Are they complaining on the M5 and X3/4M forums? That a the test bed right out there already.

I'm not saying they are or not but it seems perfectly good transmission.

[GoneIn4Secs]

Originally Posted by Artemis

M2 CS = final curtain call for the M-DCT. The end of a gearbox generation.

Great gearbox it is, such a racecar feel , exhaust open, sport mode burbles

Damn!

[GoneIn4Secs]

Man i see so many ppl slagging tbe DCT,

i dont know what youre talkin about, its feels great and the shifts are lightning fast

[///AVM]

Originally Posted by GoneIn4Secs

Man i see so many ppl slagging tbe DCT,

i dont know what youre talkin about, its feels great and the shifts are lightning fast

GoneIn4

I just want to be clear . . . I do NOT think the DCT is lacking in function. In fact, it is a great transmission.

MY opinion is the BMW chassis have become too big/heavy to enjoy DCT manual mode.

This is NOT me 'slagging' my M2C either . . . great sporty coupe! I simply prefer the DCT automatic mode over manual mode.

I realize many have their own views that are not in agreement with those of my own . . . accepted on my part.

//AVM