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      06-19-2020, 03:09 PM   #2179
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BMW have made and continue to make some very unique cars that appeal to a wide variety of enthusiasts. I think in the future, only the deepest pockets will be able to afford BMW's greatest hits.

I just spent way too much money adding a 5,000 mile E46 M3 to the stable. Looking forward to parking the M2 CS beside it.

Not much of the new 'high priced poison' really appeals to me; everything is automatic and over-the-top. I feel like I showed up to the party after everyone left. Oh, to go back in time and be able to purchase an E39 M5, Z8, 550 Maranello and Diablo new in the same year.

M2 CS isn't an E46 but at least it's a very cool enthusiast car that I can still shift myself. There isn't much out there like that. 992 is giant and air cooled is more fun. 718 electric steering isn't perfect but at least it's pretty and accessible. McLaren barely useable on street. Ferrari, Lamborghini auto only, too fast and you're rolling with 'that crowd.'

Awesome that BMW continues to offer this experience for a dwindling market of nutty driving enthusiasts. I love hearing early reports that the torque of the S55 is tough to control with a manual. I *******love it; sounds like a ridiculous pairing which is why it's the only correct answer (at least in this limited edition M2).
The first time I rented a Ferrari on track my wife asked me as soon as I got back "So you want one now?" And I said, "Nope, now I never want one." I totally get you on the high priced poison thing. Outside of some of the laps I had in the 570S, I've found that all the high dollar stuff is either so overly capable, sanitized, or "something" that I just never enjoyed the track time. Part of it is I'll never be financially at a point where I'll comfortably write off 200k and not think twice, and that means having to dial back my driving more than I want to (never mind that you can't control when someone drop oil, or a deer jumps out on track (which happens!)) etc. I really found that the 50-100k cars was where the performance and fun factors lined up to be amazing, and the value there compared to what you got out of some of the 100-200k cars, let alone what was above that, was just huge. Did I love driving the GT3 RS - yep. Was it twice as good as the 981 GTS? Not even close. Is the Huracan a screamer and amazing at handling, yep, did it really rock my world twice as hard as a GTR - negative, and that GTR was BORING compared to going slower in a Miata NC cup car.

All that is part of why I keep ending up in BMW's... They drive with fun and passion and track well. I can wring them out, and then comfortably drive home without doing gymnastics to get in and out and swatting away a bunch of questions at every gas station about the car. I can smile on the commute every day, and the laugh at the g's on the track, and still push so hard that I think "maybe I should back off a bit there, that was a little faster/harder/closer than I needed to go on that part of the track".

And back to the CS - the fact that it sounds like it can be a handful, but also between things like MDM, playing with tire pressures, etc can still be a relatively placid commuter. PERFECT.
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      06-19-2020, 08:11 PM   #2180
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I have a manual GT3 and a PDK GT3 RS. I've daily driven a Porsche 911 forever. I've had every Cayman variant including a GT4. There is absolutely no question that any Porsche is much better than any BMW on the track out of the box (no mods). BMWs are heavier and do not handle as well. I'm not saying they are bad track cars, they are not. I didn't buy my M2 comp for the track. I bought it for the street. It is a way better DD than most of the Porsches I've driven. It gives me sporty performance, great looks, usable rear seats and a massive trunk. I love my BMW. I've been away too long.
The CS intrigues me and I think it will be an awesome car.
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      06-19-2020, 08:48 PM   #2181
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Great posts everyone. Really appreciate it!
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      06-20-2020, 12:39 AM   #2182
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So. I'd say it's standard everywhere. I'll have to asses what it looks like "in the flesh".
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      06-20-2020, 01:58 PM   #2183
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdhotwn View Post
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Originally Posted by Montaver View Post
If people cant see the nuance there really isn't much else I can say.
Hah! Now there is a nail to bash on the head a few more times!!!

Along the lines of the discussion, one of the most intriguing things of late in these cars was the Supra putting down a better time at Laguna than the M2C at the hands of Randy Pobst, and that was a launch edition before they did the upgrades. You lose the rear seats, and are stuck with an auto-box, but great value, and lots of BMW bits .
The supra was on 255/275 vs 245/265 which id wager accounted for a lot of the difference.

The supra is a weird car in that it's aimed at enthusiasts; but doesn't come with a manual. I suspect Toyota has a manual trans version up their sleeve. Combine that with sorted rear suspension and a solution for the wind buffeting and it becomes a very attractive proposition, I'd certainly take it over the price equivalent 4 cylinder Cayman for the engine alone. The B58 particularly in 380bhp guise is a quality motor.
Sounds like they want to update the Supra every year to keep it interesting so I'm sure MT is coming as well as other upgrades.
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      06-20-2020, 08:51 PM   #2184
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Translated article from Stern

The final chord of a successful piece of music has to be something special. Every talented composer knows that. The same applies to automobiles - when a series retires with something mediocre, it stays in the memory, like the summer insects on the windshield. The other models may have been so good. The BMW 2 CS is the final, the internally named F derivatives and signposts for the G series, such as the M4. "Yes, but", some will argue, "they have the M2 Competition, it's already good enough." Correct. But good enough is not always enough - especially in the driving dynamics cosmos of BMW M GmbH, where the battle for lap tenths is raised to religion. "The M2 CS exaggerates the M2 Competition in terms of performance", project manager Markus Schröder sums up in the best BMW speech. To achieve this, the engineers took everything out again and packed elements into the car that were not found in the brother. Starting from the carbon brake system to the adaptive chassis.

The whole thing is garnished with a lot of carbon fiber composite components, which are not only ornamental, but dynamics enhancer. Among other things, the diffuser, hood and sandwich roof are made of the lightweight material. The latter is particularly important: low weight means lower center of gravity. But that's not all. The carbon roof also increases the rigidity of the overall body, which helps with agility. Markus Schröder puts the diet as a whole at around 40 kilograms compared to the M2 Competition, whereby the differences in equipment must always be taken into account. But every kilogram counts in the fight for full throttle at the corner exit. The bottom line is that the BMW M2 CS weighs 1,550 kilograms.
For this, the M technicians apparently also saved on the insulation material and the result is clearly audible. The 331 kW / 450 hp six-cylinder under the carbon bonnet and air scoop, which we also suspect in the new M4, sniffs, snorkels and roars his lust for turning out full-bodied and unfiltered that every M virtuoso will be happy. In addition to the supercharged engine, this BMW M embodies everything you appreciate about the Munich sports division: rear-wheel drive instead of all-wheel drive and precise driving behavior with no frills. Every curve is a gift for the BMW M2 CS. When braking on a curve, the 2 Series remains stable despite the relatively short wheelbase of 2.69 meters. The distance between the axes then helps with the curve dance, since the Munich dancer carves light-footed on the ideal line, but without emitting the calm of an M4. The BMW M2 CS doesn't want that either. He wants to be directed around the corner with precise steering and acknowledges every movement of the accelerator pedal with a reaction - just as a puristic racing car does. That is why the customer has the option of ordering a six-speed manual transmission instead of the seven-speed dual clutch transmission. Himself is the man! If you want to squeeze the last tenth out of the runabout, put on the Cup tires and thereby rival competitors such as the Mercedes AMG A 45 or the Audi RS3.

So that the dynamic spectacle does not become an ultra-tight asphalt hopped area, the engineers have given the BMW M2 CS an adaptive chassis. This helps with the traction and gives the fastest 2-man a certain suitability for everyday use. With a car that is more designed for fun than extended shopping trips, it should be clear that the BMW M2 CS is not for constant driving on bad roads. As usual at BMW, you can use predefined driving programs or put together your own and store them on the M-mode buttons on the steering wheel. If you give the BMW M2 CS the spurs, it will still reach a top speed of 280 km / h and will reach the 100 km / h mark in 4.0 seconds. On average, 9.6 liters per 100 kilometers flow through the six combustion chambers. The only question left is the price. As usual, there is nothing for free at BMW M and for the crowning conclusion of the still current BMW M2 generation you have to put at least 95,000 euros on the table.
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      06-21-2020, 07:37 PM   #2185
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https://www.bmwblog.com/2020/06/21/b...nical-details/
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      06-22-2020, 11:16 AM   #2186
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I spent some time going down the rabbit hole that was the M3 CS launch threads here on Bimmerpost, and then the pricing and first buying, and then the cars left on lots and negotiations etc. Also user driving impressions etc. I came away with a few thoughts:

The delta of the M2 CS from the M2C is bigger than the M3 CS and M4 CS were to their Competition variants (not by a lot, but a reasonable amount - unique roof, CCB option, adaptive, bigger weight difference, bigger horsepower difference).

The M2 CS at it's price point is a solid value in comparison to the M3/M4CS variants considering the actual real world performance of the cars. (We've obviously compared it's value to the M2 Comp, and that has set up its two thoroughly entrenched camps).

Humorously there was the same "If I'm spending that I"ll just get a Porsche" but in that case it was the 911 instead of the 718/GT4, and in both cases people did a bad job of actually realizing what base optioned car costs.

Lastly, the people that ended up with M3/M4 CS's in the end noted that it drove significantly better and noticeably sharper than Competition's they owned before. Will be curious to see if that carries over on the M2 at all or not. The tires were not the primary factor - numerous cases of reviewers and owners NOT on the Cup 2 also noting the behavior change.

In the end, I came away feeling that the M2 CS is a bit of a different situation than its bigger brothers, but there is certainly a lot of repeat history here. Not sure really where that leaves the overall desirability etc in "general", plus through in a pandemic and economic hardships. Either way for me it is still the "right" car, but it was interesting to compare to a similar journey for people 2 years ago.
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      06-22-2020, 04:47 PM   #2187
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First M2 CS review is out! Surprised they gave it to Shmee to break the news.

Edit: also someone posted it as a separate thread


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      06-22-2020, 05:37 PM   #2188
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They only gave him two laps? Seems like that is hardly enough to get a real feel for the car to compare to M2/MC2 - especially when switching through the different drive modes
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      06-22-2020, 06:32 PM   #2189
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https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review...cs-2020-review

Another review for the watchers of this thread
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      06-22-2020, 07:48 PM   #2190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdhotwn View Post
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review...cs-2020-review
Another review for the watchers of this thread
"After a couple of laps of fairly controlled running, it’s dry enough to begin pushing with real intent. On smooth surfaces, the soft compound Cup tyres deliver outstanding purchase. You can load up the M2 CS on the entry to constant-radius corners and confidently continue to push past the apex, all the while relying on the sheer adhesion to allow you to hold your line. It’s here, with greater grip equating to faster cornering speeds, where BMW says it has a distinct advantage over the M2 Competition. “It’s a combination of a lot of detailed chassis changes,” says Haecker of the greater agility offered by the M2 CS, adding: “It laps the Nürburgring eight seconds faster than the M2 Competition."
So then the Nürburgring Nordschleife lap time of the M2 CS is either 07:44 or 07:42, which is close to my earlier "± 07:43" guesstimate.
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Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
So far BMW M has not disclosed yet the official Nürburgring Nordschleife M2 CS lap time.

Some considerations:
  • FWIW: back in January 2016 a German source stated that already in 2015 BMW was testing an M2 pre-production car with the S55 engine (instead of the N55 engine) and that it lapped the Nürburgring Nordschleife "more than 8 seconds faster than the M4" (see here); remember that the Sport Auto M4 lap time was 07:52 (see list here);
  • M2 Competition lap time:
    • reference is usually made to the 07:52.36 lap time by Sport Auto (Horst von Saurma) in October 2018 (M-DCT M2 Competition - no manual) (see list here + full lap video here);
    • Sport Auto pinned the following comment under its video: "Hi guys, just one more information: The official lap time of BMW M testdriver Jörg Weidinger in the M2 Competition was 7.50 min";
  • during the closed room M2 CS preview event in Brussels (Sep 17), a BMW guy mentioned "about 10 seconds faster than the M2 Competition";
  • on the M2 CS release day (Nov 6), a Belgian YouTuber posted an M2 CS walkaround video (see here); he mentions (02:35-02:40) that the M2 CS laps the Nürburgring "8 seconds faster than the M2 Competition".
As 07:42 is the lap time of the first generation Porsche Cayman GT4 (981) (manual, of course - no PDK) clocked By Sport Auto (Christian Gebhardt) in 2015, I hope that the M2 CS manages to perform that lap time. I think that it's gonna be a close call (± 07:43).

BMW M lap times (source: here)
  • 7:27.88 = F82 M4 GTS
  • 7:35 (previously 7:38) = F80 M3 CS + F82 M4 CS
  • 7:38.92 = F90 M5
  • 7:4?.?? = F87 M2 CS
  • 7:48 = E92 M3 GTS
  • 7:50 = E46 M3 CSL + F87 M2 Competition (BMW)
  • 7:52 = F82 M4
  • 7:52.36 = F87 M2 Competition (Sport Auto)
  • 7:54 = F10 M5 Competition
  • 7:58 = F87 M2
  • 8:05 = E92 M3
  • 8:07 = E52 Z8
  • 8:09 = E63 M6
  • 8:12 = E86 Z4 M Coupé
  • 8:13 = E60 M5
  • 8:15 = E82 1M
  • 8:22 = E46 M3
  • 8:22 = E36/8 M3
  • 8:35 = E36 M3
  • 8:50 = E30 M3
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      06-22-2020, 07:58 PM   #2191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
It laps the Nürburgring eight seconds faster than the M2 Competition."
If track times are really so important, then there is really only one comparison to be had . . . throw some Cup 2 tires on an M2C and on same day with same driver, and let them have at it.

Is that going to influence anyone not making a living racing cars to go with the M2CS over M2C, or vice versa? I know your stance on this whole M2CS vs M2C matter and am in agreement with you.

It is a simple $25K question. . .

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      06-22-2020, 09:04 PM   #2192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///AVM View Post
If track times are really so important, then there is really only one comparison to be had . . . throw some Cup 2 tires on an M2C and on same day with same driver, and let them have at it.
Is that going to influence anyone not making a living racing cars to go with the M2CS over M2C, or vice versa? I know your stance on this whole M2CS vs M2C matter and am in agreement with you.
It is a simple $25K question. . .
///AVM
M2C & M2 CS on Michelin PSS will definitely be slower around the Nürburgring in dry conditions than an M2C & M2 CS on Michelin Cup2's with the same driver.

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      06-22-2020, 09:08 PM   #2193
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///AVM View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
"It laps the Nürburgring eight seconds faster than the M2 Competition."
If track times are really so important, then there is really only one comparison to be had . . . throw some Cup 2 tires on an M2C and on same day with same driver, and let them have at it.

Is that going to influence anyone not making a living racing cars to go with the M2CS over M2C, or vice versa? I know your stance on this whole M2CS vs M2C matter and am in agreement with you.

It is a simple $25K question. . .

///AVM
I agree this is a valid comparo... or do the reverse and throw pss on both of them.

I doubt that difference would be large. However a lot of people seem to think track tests are solid representations of real world. performance.. which could not be further from the truth. Only a few % of people ever track these cars and tracks are for the most part setup with perfect conditions and surfaces... something never seen in the real world. I would test both cars on country backroads or widny roads and simply see which one feels better... the little top end power difference may make a small difference but thats about it.
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      06-22-2020, 09:11 PM   #2194
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ///AVM View Post
If track times are really so important, then there is really only one comparison to be had . . . throw some Cup 2 tires on an M2C and on same day with same driver, and let them have at it.
Is that going to influence anyone not making a living racing cars to go with the M2CS over M2C, or vice versa? I know your stance on this whole M2CS vs M2C matter and am in agreement with you.
It is a simple $25K question. . .
///AVM
M2C & M2 CS on Michelin PSS will definitely be slower around the Nürburgring in dry conditions than an M2C & M2 CS on Michelin Cup2's with the same driver.

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Artemis

Yes, I realize that. . . my point was that, whatever the tire, it be the same on both, on same day with same driver (and same transmission). As you say, the Cup 2 will be faster . . . on a dry track.

Track times really irrelevant anyway, again, to 99% buying either an M2C or M2CS. . . It doesn't answer the $25K question.

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      06-23-2020, 12:11 AM   #2195
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Originally Posted by ///AVM View Post
Track times really irrelevant anyway, again, to 99% buying either an M2C or M2CS. . . It doesn't answer the $25K question.

///AVM
Some people just want the best form of their favourite car.

It's like people choosing between the 4 cylinder Cayman or the fancy one. Get what floats your boat if you can.
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      06-23-2020, 12:30 AM   #2196
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Originally Posted by Davil View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ///AVM View Post
Track times really irrelevant anyway, again, to 99% buying either an M2C or M2CS. . . It doesn't answer the $25K question.

///AVM
Some people just want the best form of their favourite car.

It's like people choosing between the 4 cylinder Cayman or the fancy one. Get what floats your boat if you can.
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      06-23-2020, 01:43 AM   #2197
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Originally Posted by ///AVM View Post
Artemis

Yes, I realize that. . . my point was that, whatever the tire, it be the same on both, on same day with same driver (and same transmission). As you say, the Cup 2 will be faster . . . on a dry track.

Track times really irrelevant anyway, again, to 99% buying either an M2C or M2CS. . . It doesn't answer the $25K question.

///AVM
Seriously now mate , do you think that the CS does not worth the 25K from the Competition for what it is ? 8 seconds faster on the ring is a significant time , the Comp had 6 sec difference from the OG , which again had 40hp more . So why not the CS ? We can see a 25k more yes , from a stock M2Comp ofc . Have a look at this video where Joe Achilles drag race in a Competition , which had some extras and overall worth 77k UK pounds ! The CS if im not mistaken starts from 75k pounds , and already have more power , more unique parts , unique and better quality interior/leather , and its a limited edition ! So , why complain ? Is there anyone really , that doesnt know the CS is the best overall F87 ?
The price question is different for each one , for you it might not worth it , for me? its a f***** bargain for what it is . How would you feel if you had one of these special cars ? DO you think the M2 CS does not belong here? I can guarantee you the M2 CS is as special as the Sport Evo of its time , or the E46 CSL of its time etc . Why ? Because all those cars share the same idea , and all of them - limited production -
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      06-23-2020, 02:34 AM   #2198
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I agree that the M2CS is a special car mainly due to its limited nature and added M performance goodies as standard. But just to put it in perspective, if you want a special car that is truly special in terms of build, you can argue the Subaru STI S209 as much more special than the CS (styling and brand prestige aside). Check out Savagegeese's review of this incredible "hand assembled" STI, limited to 209 units. Disclaimer, I'm not even a STI fan, but I am a fan of engineering and craftsmanship.

I bring this up because the definition of the best variation, limited edition and quality of assembly has a wide spectrum of definitions. It just depends what you value more. For me personally, I think something hand assembled to exacting tolerances really add something additional to the traditional mass market builds. And all in, it's hard to find a car built in these exacting standards for $70K.




Side bar - not sure why there is such intense aversion to the 4 cylinder 718s. Objectively, it beats out the previous 6 cylinder in every way. Also, new "enthusiasts" who do not have cylinder bias or are Porsche fanboys seem to enjoy the 4 cylinder when given some seat time to actually drive it.

However, you can effectively argue that you may have a better overall driving experience with the 6 cylinder, mainly due to better aural attributes. But this is key, because you're talking about experience and not judging by objective metrics, such as lap times, 0-60, skid pad, etc. Again I bring this up because some argue the CS is "better" and worth $XX because it is faster on the ring, etc. Yes, objectively speaking it is better than the C. But in terms of driving experience, there may not be a large gap between a C and CS.

It's pretty easy for car brands to make a fast car these days and in the future. Especially in the era of electric vehicles. However, it is much harder to build a car that harnesses the great driving experience. The intangibles, the sound, the feel of the shifter, clutch, etc.
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      06-23-2020, 04:41 AM   #2199
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So do we get this in the CS? No comfort access but using my Apple Watch would be just as good. It says models built after July 1. Hmmm

https://www.macrumors.com/2020/06/22...r-key-details/

Oh. I think I just answered my own question.

"The Comfort Access option (SA 322), Connected Drive Services (SA 6AE), a compatible iPhone and your BMW must be linked to your BMW ID (via the MyBMW app). The list of compatible iPhones and operating system versions may vary for different car models and software. You can view the list on the BMW website. You only need an internet connection to set up the digital key. Once it has been set up, no active internet connection is required in order to unlock the driver's door and start the engine. After you've opened the door, you must place your iPhone in the smartphone holder to start the car."

Maybe M2C will get it but not M2CS.
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      06-23-2020, 05:32 AM   #2200
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