[3t3p]

Some are over thinking it I think, most are not reporting lag with normal FMIC sizes upgrades.

In fact I have faster turbo spool and therefore lower perceived lag after my mods were fitted but I have no experience of changing out the FMIC only.

I can't see it being an issue. Regardless we all know how woeful the stock one is. My car honestly feels like it's had a map thrown on it after DV, fmic, CP, turbo inlet and sports cat.

[XutvJet]

I've been running my Wagner EVO I Competition IC since October 2020. Although I'd never say the N55 in my M235 was ever laggy when in Sport+ mode and with my current mods (catted DP, Dinan Stage 2, M2 airbox), I felt that the lag was reduced once I added Wagner EVO I Competition IC. What I noticed under moderate and full throttle, was that throttle response was quicker and lag reduced over the stock IC. I was actually quite surprised at the difference. I was loosing traction with my PS4S tires way more easily when going full throttle in 2nd at 3500-4000rpms.

Now after 6 months of ownership, I'd have to say there are random instances where there is a very slight delay and/or momentary dead spot under light and moderate throttle that wasn't there before the IC. This is very random and only someone very tuned into their car would only notice. I also notice that power comes on harder at full throttle from a 3,000rpm+ punch.

The slight delay and/or dead spot under light and moderate throttle doesn't feel like lag, but rather momentary DME confusion. Since the IC is more efficient, the DME might not be expecting the flow it's seeing. Same goes for what I notice power wise above 3,000rpms. My N55 didn't rip as hard when going full throttle with the stock IC. It feels more manic. I don't go full throttle from a roll below 3,000rpms so I have no idea how the car performs in that situation, stock or modded. Full throttle above 3,000rpm has no hiccups. It just rides a wave of power to redline in all gears (1st is pretty useless).

I really like the Wagner EVO I Competition IC and my car feels stronger, faster, and the power way more consistent in warm/hot temps. The motor just feels more flexible and eager. I also like the fact that the IC slide right and bolted up like the stock IC and had no issues connecting to my FTP charge pipe or needing to modify any of the OEM surrounding plastic panels/shrouds. It's definitely a tighter fit, but it goes in fine once you angle it in.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

I've been running my Wagner EVO I Competition IC since October 2020. Although I'd never say the N55 in my M235 was ever laggy when in Sport+ mode and with my current mods (catted DP, Dinan Stage 2, M2 airbox), I felt that the lag was reduced once I added Wagner EVO I Competition IC. What I noticed under moderate and full throttle, was that throttle response was quicker and lag reduced over the stock IC. I was actually quite surprised at the difference. I was loosing traction with my PS4S tires way more easily when going full throttle in 2nd at 3500-4000rpms.

Now after 6 months of ownership, I'd have to say there are random instances where there is a very slight delay and/or momentary dead spot under light and moderate throttle that wasn't there before the IC. This is very random and only someone very tuned into their car would only notice. I also notice that power comes on harder at full throttle from a 3,000rpm+ punch.

The slight delay and/or dead spot under light and moderate throttle doesn't feel like lag, but rather momentary DME confusion. Since the IC is more efficient, the DME might not be expecting the flow it's seeing. Same goes for what I notice power wise above 3,000rpms. My N55 didn't rip as hard when going full throttle with the stock IC. It feels more manic. I don't go full throttle from a roll below 3,000rpms so I have no idea how the car performs in that situation, stock or modded. Full throttle above 3,000rpm has no hiccups. It just rides a wave of power to redline in all gears (1st is pretty useless).

I really like the Wagner EVO I Competition IC and my car feels stronger, faster, and the power way more consistent in warm/hot temps. The motor just feels more flexible and eager. I also like the fact that the IC slide right and bolted up like the stock IC and had no issues connecting to my FTP charge pipe or needing to modify any of the OEM surrounding plastic panels/shrouds. It's definitely a tighter fit, but it goes in fine once you angle it in.

I think it's a gloried paperweight, but this was a well written review.

[Dasnub]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

I've been running my Wagner EVO I Competition IC since October 2020. Although I'd never say the N55 in my M235 was ever laggy when in Sport+ mode and with my current mods (catted DP, Dinan Stage 2, M2 airbox), I felt that the lag was reduced once I added Wagner EVO I Competition IC. What I noticed under moderate and full throttle, was that throttle response was quicker and lag reduced over the stock IC. I was actually quite surprised at the difference. I was loosing traction with my PS4S tires way more easily when going full throttle in 2nd at 3500-4000rpms.

Now after 6 months of ownership, I'd have to say there are random instances where there is a very slight delay and/or momentary dead spot under light and moderate throttle that wasn't there before the IC. This is very random and only someone very tuned into their car would only notice. I also notice that power comes on harder at full throttle from a 3,000rpm+ punch.

The slight delay and/or dead spot under light and moderate throttle doesn't feel like lag, but rather momentary DME confusion. Since the IC is more efficient, the DME might not be expecting the flow it's seeing. Same goes for what I notice power wise above 3,000rpms. My N55 didn't rip as hard when going full throttle with the stock IC. It feels more manic. I don't go full throttle from a roll below 3,000rpms so I have no idea how the car performs in that situation, stock or modded. Full throttle above 3,000rpm has no hiccups. It just rides a wave of power to redline in all gears (1st is pretty useless).

I really like the Wagner EVO I Competition IC and my car feels stronger, faster, and the power way more consistent in warm/hot temps. The motor just feels more flexible and eager. I also like the fact that the IC slide right and bolted up like the stock IC and had no issues connecting to my FTP charge pipe or needing to modify any of the OEM surrounding plastic panels/shrouds. It's definitely a tighter fit, but it goes in fine once you angle it in.

Curious, are you a 6MT or DCT? The lag you speak of sounds very similar to the lag between shifts that has been discussed here on the 6MT that was very recently fixed Bootmod3.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by Dasnub

Curious, are you a 6MT or DCT? The lag you speak of sounds very similar to the lag between shifts that has been discussed here on the 6MT that was very recently fixed Bootmod3.

6MT. It doesn't happen on shifts. That lag/delay that plagues many N55 M2 owners on hard shifts is something I experienced often when I had the Dinan Sport on my M235. Once I removed it, it went away. With my Dinan Stage 2 piggyback, there's never a lag/delay on hard shifts. It's impressive considering it's a turbo. My M235 feels naturally aspirated on full throttle, high rpm shifts. There is no perceivable lag entering the next gear; it's just a constant surge of power. My prior 2012 WRX with a flash tune was the complete opposite. A big whiff of lag on shifts, very old school.

[Dasnub]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

6MT. It doesn't happen on shifts. That lag/delay that plagues many N55 M2 owners on hard shifts is something I experienced often when I had the Dinan Sport on my M235. Once I removed it, it went away. With my Dinan Stage 2 piggyback, there's never a lag/delay on hard shifts. It's impressive considering it's a turbo. My M235 feels naturally aspirated on full throttle, high rpm shifts. There is no perceivable lag entering the next gear; it's just a constant surge of power. My prior 2012 WRX with a flash tune was the complete opposite. A big whiff of lag on shifts, very old school.

Funny you say that, had a FBO JB4 M235i before my M2 and it also had zero shift lag. It was a big “uhhh what?” moment when I got in the M2 for the first time. I thought something was broken.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

I think it's a gloried paperweight, but this was a well written review.

You really don't think it works at all? It has one of the highest fin counts of the ICs you're evaluating and its construction is like a blend of a tube/fin and bar/plate IC. I've been running the thing over 6 months and have acquired a ton of data. You have no direct experience with it. I'm not sure any supporting data would change your mind as it sounds like you made up your mind long ago based on one specific set of data someone posted. Quite a biased approach, IMO.

[3t3p]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

You really don't think it works at all? It has one of the highest fin counts of the ICs you're evaluating and its construction is like a blend of a tube/fin and bar/plate IC. I've been running the thing over 6 months and have acquired a ton of data. You have no direct experience with it. I'm not sure any supporting data would change your mind as it sounds like you made up your mind long ago based on one specific set of data someone posted. Quite a biased approach, IMO.

He's an IC Zealot

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

You really don't think it works at all? It has one of the highest fin counts of the ICs you're evaluating and its construction is like a blend of a tube/fin and bar/plate IC. I've been running the thing over 6 months and have acquired a ton of data. You have no direct experience with it. I'm not sure any supporting data would change your mind as it sounds like you made up your mind long ago based on one specific set of data someone posted. Quite a biased approach, IMO.

Straight up, I still think you measured the fin density wrong - no other core that small has more than 16, and the one log we actually have to reference shows the Evo 1 performing like garbage, so it clearly isn't helping.

But I forgot, did you try every IC before coming to the conclusion you did? If you want to justify paying almost $700 for one of the worst ICs on the market, that’s fine. But it’s inferior to its larger Evo 2 sibling, which is already at it limit on a Stage 1 car in 80* ambient.

What does the Evo 1 provide that of the Do88 doesn’t? Or VRSF 5”?

If your answer isn’t ‘inferior cooling ability, no objective benefits and a higher price tag’ I’m not sure how anyone can take you seriously.

[Dj_Quik]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

Straight up, I still think you measured the fin density wrong - no other core that small has more than 16, and the one log we actually have to reference shows the Evo 1 performing like garbage, so it clearly isn't helping.

But I forgot, did you try every IC before coming to the conclusion you did? If you want to justify paying almost $700 for one of the worst ICs on the market, that’s fine. But it’s inferior to its larger Evo 2 sibling, which is already at it limit on a Stage 1 car in 80* ambient.

What does the Evo 1 provide that of the Do88 doesn’t? Or VRSF 5”?

If your answer isn’t ‘inferior cooling ability, no objective benefits and a higher price tag’ I’m not sure how anyone can take you seriously.

Wait, but have YOU tested these intercoolers individually?? I dont remember you testing them objectively individually to come up with your conclusions lmfao! And im pretty sure noone takes you seriously either. Again, stop calling yourself high and mighty intercooler guy unless youve actually tested these intercoolers and gather HARD evidence yourself to present to us before you ramble on and call people out on their choices.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by Dj_Quik

Wait, but have YOU tested these intercoolers individually?? I dont remember you testing them objectively individually to come up with your conclusions lmfao! And im pretty sure noone takes you seriously either. Again, stop calling yourself high and mighty intercooler guy unless youve actually tested these intercoolers and gather HARD evidence yourself to present to us before you ramble on and call people out on their choices.

Yeah yeah yeah, you don’t like what I have to say, but that doesn’t make me wrong. :shrug:

Then again, I’m not sure why you think
1. I care about your approval
2. Care enough about what you think to spend my own money to prove you - a person on the internet ‘wrong’
3. You (or anyone else) have provided anything that contradicts the conclusions I’ve come to.

Per Xutvjet, his temps go up 10-15 degrees in ONE GEAR.

https://www.2addicts.com/forums/show....php?t=1773277

Originally Posted by XutvJet

With my car, I see a 10 to 15 degrees climb in IAT over ambient across the span of a 3rd gear run (~2500rpms to 7000rpms) with Wagner which is far better than stock.

I’m not sure how my credibility is in questions when this is information HE provided from HIS intercooler.

So either the data he provided is wrong, or I’m looking at it wrong. Per the same thread:

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

So baseline temperatures are 95 degrees - and rise about 10 - 15 degrees during a single gear pull.

Wagner Evolution 1
Ambient temp - starting Temp bottom of 3rd - end of 3rd
70 - 95 - 110 (40 degrees over ambient!)

VRSF Competition:
79F - 92F - 92F (13 degrees over ambient)

Just extrapolate that over 2 gears or even 3, and you'll see that the IC is ill suited for what you're asking it to do.

If I’m wrong, prove it. This has gone beyond simple tech talks to personal attacks.

[AmuroRay]

Evo 1 vs stock



And I’m super underwhelmed by Wagner’s products, especially at their price point.

https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=932195

Originally Posted by mikew2069

Well guys, I kind of screwed the pooch on my logs. Yesterday at 71.6* F, I did three back to back runs from 50-100mph. Believe it or not, we had identical weather today and when I went back out to do the comparison logs, it was also exactly 71.6* F. That's the good news.

The bad news is that I did three back to back runs from 50-100mph and the momentI was finished, I realized that I was in comfort mode when I was in Sport+ yesterday. So I then immediately put it in Sport+ and did it again. I am posting the comparison logs from the Comfort run and the Sport+ run. Although there are obvious gains here, I think the true story will be told when its hotter outside. As soon as it gets to 80* here, I'll post more logs....

Stock Sport+ vs Wagner Comfort

Wagner Comfort Log 72deg by mikew2069, on Flickr

Stock Sport+ vs Wagner Sport+ (Immediately after the Comfort runs)

Wagner Sport+ Log 72deg by mikew2069, on Flickr

Please again reference this test of the Evo 1 on a near stock 335i. Note that the Evo goes up by 10+degrees per gear. So overall, on a near stock car, IATs increased over 55 degrees in 3 gears - that’s extremely poor performance.

Just a comparison, Xutvjet’s car is Stage 2, his conclusion was 40 degrees above ambient in one gear.

Do you agree the data speaks for itself? What else is there to argue?

[PackPride85]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

Evo 1 vs stock



And I’m super underwhelmed by Wagner’s products, especially at their price point.

https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=932195



Please again reference this test of the Evo 1 on a near stock 335i. Note that the Evo goes up by 10+degrees per gear. So overall, on a near stock car, IATs increased over 55 degrees in 3 gears - that’s extremely poor performance.

Just a comparison, Xutvjet’s car is Stage 2, his conclusion was 40 degrees above ambient in one gear.

Do you agree the data speaks for itself? What else is there to argue?

That's not really a controlled testing environment. Needs a bench test.

[Dj_Quik]

If I’m wrong, prove it. This has gone beyond simple tech talks to personal attacks.[/QUOTE]

The only way to prove you wrong without rebutting every single thing everyone says here is to individually test each intercooler in acontrolled scientific manner. Im not willing to do that. Neither are you. So youre not as credible as you think you are. The difference is im not claiming to be the intercooler guy calling out everyone on their individual choices that is not your own. Make suggestions and leave it at that. And when someone says i bought this and that intercooler and it works for them, dont be a dick and be like “your intercooler is garbage”. Seriously. Its fine when you post numbers of what that intercooler did for that guy and how that intercooler did for that guy, thats actually very helpful. But when youre commenting how someone made a bad choice on an intercooler coz it wasnt what you chose, is when people dont appreciate you. Let whoever is reading these posts decide for thenselves.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by PackPride85

That's not really a controlled testing environment. Needs a bench test.

Says who? I get your an engineer, but are you going to claim that none of this (or any log) is valid because they weren’t tested on the same day, and there is nothing of value to be gathered by the data?

Ok.

[tx_M2]

On page 5 of the link AmuroRay posted their is a video of some guy at the track in Austin Texas (COTA). He was impressed with the recovery rate of the Wagner EVO 1 Competition. That was on a race track going balls to the wall. Not going through a pull or two for 3 gears. Difference in Ambient and intake temps varied between 20 to 30 degrees. I'm not a self proclaimed intercooler god but I dont think that is to awfully bad. And it's more of a true representation of driving and putting it to the test !

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by tx_M2

On page 5 of the link AmuroRay posted their is a video of some guy at the track in Austin Texas (COTA). He was impressed with the recovery rate of the Wagner EVO 1 Competition. That was on a race track going balls to the wall. Not going through a pull or two for 3 gears. Difference in Ambient and intake temps varied between 20 to 30 degrees. I'm not a self proclaimed intercooler god but I dont think that is to awfully bad. And it's more of a true representation of driving and putting it to the test !

Please review the logs above:

-It recovers the same rate as stock
-The car was virtually stock per him (JB4 not active)
-It was 59 degrees on an overcast day (no direct sunlight)
-Intercooler still reached over 45 degree deltas

I’m guess I don’t see what’s so impressive about that? I’ve been to COTA (watched Formula 1 race, walked the course) and it’s a big course - and Texas is HOT. This is literally the best case scenario —
Example,

120iats once his pace picks up.

Edit: 130iat here

[vrooooom]

Actually it hit delta of 52F on the 2nd video @ 9.15 ~136F.

I'd like to filter out all those comments that may be considered offensive and just get the info that are helpful. I don't really care if a product is called garbage when it's backed by posted data. why someone wuld come to that conclusion.

None of us here would be willing to buy & test every single IC but I'm sure some of us here knows more than the others. Not all of us are respectful or more politically correct.... just the nature of forums. Let the numbers speak for themselves.... and call it as it is. No need to be offended.

If I had paid more for a product, I'd be expecting more I can understand that. Question is, did it perform equal or better than the cheaper IC. The fact that we're on a BMW, means we're willing to pay more for "brand".

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

Evo 1 vs stock



And I’m super underwhelmed by Wagner’s products, especially at their price point.

https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=932195

THAT IS NOT a Wagner EVO 1 Competition intercooler or at least the Wagner EVO 1 Competition they are selling now. I will post a follow-up response to this.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

Straight up, I still think you measured the fin density wrong - no other core that small has more than 16......

I got under my M235 today to get measurements of my Wagner EVO I Competition intercooler (and stock IC as well) for the sole reason of providing the forum USEFUL data

Photos of the Wagner EVO I Competition intercooler prior to install as well as the fin count per inch photo are attached.



Wagner EVO I Competition intercooler measurement and fin count

4 7/8" core thickness
20 1/4" wide core
Front core height is 8" tall
Rear core height is 6" tall
"Step" on the front of the IC is 1.5" thick
Fin count is 17 to 18 fins per inch (see photo below)


Stock intercooler measurement and fin count

4" core thickness
19 1/2" wide core
Core height is 5" tall
Fin count is 16 fins per inch

[PackPride85]

Not BMW testing but about the closest you'll get to a true bench test comparison for a bunch of IC's:

http://mygolfmk7.com/mk7-gti-intercooler-test/

[tx_M2]

Originally Posted by PackPride85

Not BMW testing but about the closest you'll get to a true bench test comparison for a bunch of IC's:

http://mygolfmk7.com/mk7-gti-intercooler-test/

Now that is 1 good way to test intercoolers 👍