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      04-18-2020, 05:52 PM   #573
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZM2 View Post
So, I spent quite a bit of time this morning going thru a crap ton of logs (you’re welcome). There are two sets of logs with the Dinan IC (bar plate) and one set with the Evo2 Comp (tube fin) below.

The environmental and use differences between the logs should heavily assist the Dinan: ambient temps are much colder in one set, and pulls are only halfway into 4th gear in the other.

For the Evo2 log, I didn’t start the recording until having already completed many pulls so the IC is already nice and hot at the start of the log, and most of the pulls are all the way thru 4th. So, this is not fair bc in normal daily driving before doing pulls I would consistently see IATs 10-20F cooler with the Evo2 as a starting point.

Outcome:
When singling out similar types of pulls to review IAT rise, the Wagner increases are lower. You can also see this in the general overall IAT temp line trend increasing over time with the Dinan. The basically shows that the Wagner has more cooling capacity than the Dinan, which I don’t think is a shocker to anyone here.

As for recovery, both ICs reduced temps around 10F between pulls going halfway into 4th. The Wagner recovered a little more when doing pulls all the way thru 4th.

Would a larger bar plate have performed better than the Dinan? Yes. Would the Evo 2 have shown even better recovery if I had started logging the earlier pulls? Probably.

So, which is better, tube fin or bar plate? Inconclusive! These logs are exactly what I mean that you cannot throw out a blanket statement that one type of heat exchanger is better than the other. It’s more about which specific products are available on the market, and what works best for someone’s specific use scenarios.

Bottom line, the Evo2 Comp is large enough for anyone running up to a Stage 2 tune on the street. It’s also large enough for anyone not consistently doing more than 20min track sessions on hot summer days. And, it weighs 10lbs less than the large heavier bar plate IC’s that may have a little more cooling capacity.

For those of us pushing the use case boundaries, we need more cooling than the Evo2 and many of the bar plate ICs. If one of you guys could go buy the large VRSFs and the Evo3 Comp and do the same logging comparison, we would all appreciate it!

Dinan IC logs
https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5c2c...729b51747a4b72
https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5c8c...729b3511ea8fd1

Evo2 Comp logs
https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5cb9...729b44f4273e3b
I looked through the logs, and unless I’m reading wrong -

The Wagner heat up quicker, even after the cool down.
It’s maximum temps were higher than the Dinanby almost 10* it did have a lower minimum, but once it got to the higher temperatures, it couldn't agreed heat fast enough.

And when you think about it, higher average temperatures are never good. Even if it’s lower once, you want the engine to behave in a consistent manner and give you all the power all the time - this intercooler clearly can’t do that. All that marketing about its cools down quicker between turns’ is meaningless, because some turns are a taken at a higher rpm in a lower gear (or should be) and if you’re going slow enough, you’re not getting bough airflow to cool it down.

How big is the dinan cooler?
Do you have track data?
Thank you for posting btw
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      04-18-2020, 05:53 PM   #574
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AmuroRay View Post
I spent all last night and this morning reading. The Evo 3 measurements may still make it smaller than the VRSF race. Per Tiago in the thread, the IC cost about .85psi. The core is absolutely MASSIVE, it’s almost DOUBLE the size of the other cores - there is just no way around the size disparity and thermal capacity.

Read through the thread, no mention of increased lag either. If your tracking the car, the Race IC should be the final word.
I’m leery of the VRSF fitment issues I’ve heard, so I don’t really want to buy it, try to put it in, and it doesn’t fit.

If one happened to show up, we were able to get it to fit, and it showed a big impact on IATs, I’m happy to buy it.

I have hours and hours of on track logs with the Evo2 Comp, so we’d be able to quickly see the difference.
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      04-18-2020, 05:58 PM   #575
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AmuroRay View Post
I looked through the logs, and unless I’m reading wrong -

The Wagner heat up quicker, even after the cool down.
It’s maximum temps were higher than the Dinanby almost 10* it did have a lower minimum, but once it got to the higher temperatures, it couldn't agreed heat fast enough.

And when you think about it, higher average temperatures are never good. Even if it’s lower once, you want the engine to behave in a consistent manner and give you all the power all the time - this intercooler clearly can’t do that. All that marketing about its cools down quicker between turns’ is meaningless, because some turns are a taken at a higher rpm in a lower gear (or should be) and if you’re going slow enough, you’re not getting bough airflow to cool it down.

How big is the dinan cooler?
Do you have track data?
Thank you for posting btw
You have to look at temp deltas not absolutes, and on similar length pulls. If you do that, what I said in my original post holds up.

But again, picking apart minute data differences in non-back to back logs that are not identical runs is pointless.

The question is will it do the job for 90% of the guys out there. Yeah, and it weighs less. Is it enough for my needs, no.

Last edited by ZM2; 04-18-2020 at 06:05 PM..
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      04-18-2020, 06:00 PM   #576
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZM2 View Post
I’m leery of the VRSF fitment issues I’ve heard, so I don’t really want to buy it, try to put it in, and it doesn’t fit.

If one happened to show up, we were able to get it to fit, and it showed a big impact on IATs, I’m happy to buy it.

I have hours and hours of on track logs with the Evo2 Comp, so we’d be able to quickly see the difference.
I know it fits the m235i - the biggest issue I heard was with the fan shroud. And even after that, they sent the spacers and brackets.
At the prices they are going for, night as well.


For me, I think the decision has been made.
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      04-18-2020, 06:04 PM   #577
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Originally Posted by AmuroRay View Post
I know it fits the m235i - the biggest issue I heard was with the fan shroud. And even after that, they sent the spacers and brackets.
At the prices they are going for, night as well.


For me, I think the decision has been made.
I still haven’t seen a post from a forum member highlighting a painless install with concrete data backing up how much more it cools on track vs the Evo2, and I don’t want to pay to find out.

If one shows up and it is all it claims to be, happy to pay.
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      04-18-2020, 06:04 PM   #578
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZM2 View Post
You have to look at temp deltas not absolutes, and on similar length pulls. If you do that, what I said I’m my original post holds up.

But again, picking apart minute data differences in non-back to back logs that are not identical runs is pointless.

The question is will it do the job for 90% of the guys out there. Yeah, and it weighs less. Is it enough for my needs, no.
I agree. For most people, none of this matters.

I wouldn’t buy a stage 1 IC no matter what - the stage 2 intercoolers like the Comp 2, VRSF 6” comp, ATM, CFS are likely going to perform the same on the street, have extra head room for mods (bigger turbo, occasional track day) don’t cost much more or have any trade offs in response vs the smaller ICs.

But for people like you, and hopefully me - yeah, we’ll need something more consistent and that works all the time. And I was afraid of massive lag, but didn’t hear (or read) about any. So the trade off is really size and 1psi.
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      04-24-2020, 12:42 AM   #579
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Decided to go with the CSF intercooler from mike@x-ph.com . Can someone point me to a good but not super expensive hard pipe kit that will fit easily and straight forward with this intercooler?

Cant wait till the rona blows over so I can get this car to stage 2
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      04-24-2020, 05:16 AM   #580
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C0YS View Post
Decided to go with the CSF intercooler from mike@x-ph.com . Can someone point me to a good but not super expensive hard pipe kit that will fit easily and straight forward with this intercooler?

Cant wait till the rona blows over so I can get this car to stage 2
CTS turbo makes really high quality charge pipes with excellent fitment, for a turbo outlet you don't have to replace it since the factory one is a single piece of extremely tough woven fiber around a rubber interior which will not break like the brittle plastic chargepipe. But if you must replace it ER and FTP motor sports makes a good replacement.
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      04-24-2020, 11:38 AM   #581
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C0YS View Post
Decided to go with the CSF intercooler from mike@x-ph.com . Can someone point me to a good but not super expensive hard pipe kit that will fit easily and straight forward with this intercooler?

Cant wait till the rona blows over so I can get this car to stage 2
Congrats

Active Autowerke, VRSF and Evolution Racewerks charge pipes are the most popular for us.
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      04-24-2020, 02:04 PM   #582
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C0YS View Post
Decided to go with the CSF intercooler from mike@x-ph.com . Can someone point me to a good but not super expensive hard pipe kit that will fit easily and straight forward with this intercooler?

Cant wait till the rona blows over so I can get this car to stage 2
Do you mind doing some before and after logging?
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      04-25-2020, 02:06 PM   #583
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AmuroRay View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by C0YS View Post
Decided to go with the CSF intercooler from mike@x-ph.com . Can someone point me to a good but not super expensive hard pipe kit that will fit easily and straight forward with this intercooler?

Cant wait till the rona blows over so I can get this car to stage 2
Do you mind doing some before and after logging?
If I have the tune before or way to log before I do the intercooler I'll see what I can do
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      04-25-2020, 02:08 PM   #584
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by C0YS View Post
Decided to go with the CSF intercooler from mike@x-ph.com . Can someone point me to a good but not super expensive hard pipe kit that will fit easily and straight forward with this intercooler?

Cant wait till the rona blows over so I can get this car to stage 2
Congrats

Active Autowerke, VRSF and Evolution Racewerks charge pipes are the most popular for us.
Thank you, wondering if anyone had any install experience with the CSF and which individual set of pipes were easiest to fit to the CSF intercooler
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      04-26-2020, 02:30 PM   #585
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Thank you, wondering if anyone had any install experience with the CSF and which individual set of pipes were easiest to fit to the CSF intercooler
Please let us know which one you pick and how it fits
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      04-26-2020, 02:58 PM   #586
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Please let us know which one you pick and how it fits
+1
Always good to know fitment combinations.
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      04-27-2020, 11:09 AM   #587
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Thank you, wondering if anyone had any install experience with the CSF and which individual set of pipes were easiest to fit to the CSF intercooler
I put one on my car. No fitment issues. Pretty much all the different intercoolers will work with all the different pipes as they're designed to plug up to stock components if desired.
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      04-27-2020, 04:31 PM   #588
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cecaa850 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by C0YS View Post
Thank you, wondering if anyone had any install experience with the CSF and which individual set of pipes were easiest to fit to the CSF intercooler
I put one on my car. No fitment issues. Pretty much all the different intercoolers will work with all the different pipes as they're designed to plug up to stock components if desired.
Ok thank you so I'll sort out what to order and let you guys know how it goes when the weather warms up
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      04-28-2020, 10:10 AM   #589
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Ok thank you so I'll sort out what to order and let you guys know how it goes when the weather warms up
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      06-01-2020, 11:01 PM   #590
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Received my Wagner Comp II & VRSF CP from Mike at EPH, many thanks

One question, I have a track day this Sunday (20min sessions) and could probably find time to get them in but not sure if it's worth the rush? I have 6MT and will still be on stock tune (will be going to BM3 stage 2), it's winter & forecast max temp is 17C + likely rain.
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      06-02-2020, 07:15 AM   #591
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Received my Wagner Comp II & VRSF CP from Mike at EPH, many thanks

One question, I have a track day this Sunday (20min sessions) and could probably find time to get them in but not sure if it's worth the rush? I have 6MT and will still be on stock tune (will be going to BM3 stage 2), it's winter & forecast max temp is 17C + likely rain.
You'll be totally fine, once you figure out the oem clips the intercooler takes 15mins.
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      06-02-2020, 10:40 AM   #592
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You'll be totally fine, once you figure out the oem clips the intercooler takes 15mins.
Was wondering though will the Comp II intercooler deliver a noticeable power increase with stock tune & 17C ambient temp? If yes I’ll make time to install before weekend.
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      06-02-2020, 11:43 AM   #593
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PLF69 View Post
You'll be totally fine, once you figure out the oem clips the intercooler takes 15mins.
Was wondering though will the Comp II intercooler deliver a noticeable power increase with stock tune & 17C ambient temp? If yes I’ll make time to install before weekend.
I don't think you will gain any power but it will surely prevent the engine from cutting timing when your stock intercooler is totally overwhelmed after a 20min session.

I really felt it on long stretches with the oem intercooler, I now have the comp 1 and I saw a difference. For now I find the stock power adequate for track day but It was frustrating to feel the loss of power.
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      06-04-2020, 12:45 PM   #594
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PLF69 View Post
You'll be totally fine, once you figure out the oem clips the intercooler takes 15mins.
Was wondering though will the Comp II intercooler deliver a noticeable power increase with stock tune & 17C ambient temp? If yes I’ll make time to install before weekend.
It's not so much power you will gain it's power you will lose when the ECU pulls timing because IAT temps.
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