[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by varooshgog

Hey All,

I have been looking into getting an IC for the OG M2 just to help with the heat in CA and eventually Texas (and hopefully make a bit more power on a stock tune). I have been looking into the Evolution Racewerks IC since I've always liked their product quality, but wanted to get some insight on the following:

1) Did anyone notice any increase/decrease in throttle response once you swapped over to the ER IC?

2) If someone dyno'd the car afterwards, but did you see any HP/Torque improvements on a stock tune post IC change (this is more general with any of the larger ICs)?

3) Would you say the ER IC was worth it? I know the install is a lot more complicated given you have to take off the bumper and some braces I believe (I'm using my local shop, so will likely have a larger labor bill), but do you think it was worth it/benefit the overall setup?

4) Would you recommend swapping the Turbo Inlet at the same? I already have the ER Charge Pipes installed (was a pain, but I also have gorilla hands) but figured its worth inquiring about the Turbo Inlet if I'm taking it to the shop anyways.

1) Did anyone notice any increase/decrease in throttle response once you swapped over to the ER IC?

You won't notice any decrease in the throttle as long as you are running stage 2 boost maps.

2) If someone dyno'd the car afterwards, but did you see any HP/Torque improvements on a stock tune post IC change (this is more general with any of the larger ICs)?

The temps rise from your first pull, so the performance increase can easily be noticeable on the dyno or datalog. And the more pulls you do back to back, the more significant the difference in performance will be.

3) Would you say the ER IC was worth it? I know the install is a lot more complicated given you have to take off the bumper and some braces I believe (I'm using my local shop, so will likely have a larger labor bill), but do you think it was worth it/benefit the overall setup?

An upgraded intercooler on this car is a must. And ER is the best quality intercooler on the market. It's the only one made in the US, as far as I know.

4) Would you recommend swapping the Turbo Inlet at the same? I already have the ER Charge Pipes installed (was a pain, but I also have gorilla hands) but figured its worth inquiring about the Turbo Inlet if I'm taking it to the shop anyways.[/QUOTE]

Upgrading the inlet will improve the airflow to your turbo and improve the performance.

[Mattaos]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

Race or Competition? The Comp is around 8" tall and the Race is 11" tall, which I was told (I have a M235i) require spacing.

Do you have pictures or logs?

Sorry I've been meaning to reply to this. It's the competition. Here's a photo of it very very near, if not touching at times, the front brace.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by Mattaos

Sorry I've been meaning to reply to this. It's the competition. Here's a photo of it very very near, if not touching at times, the front brace.

Logs?

[Mattaos]

Sorry none. There's very little opportunity to do a proper pull where I live.

[vrooooom]

1) Just want to add, you'll need a performance downpipe to do stage-2. which is probably the reason for not having the lag.

3) I don't think anyone would be able to tell u if it's worth it. I wish there are objective test that compares all the other IC to each other performance-wise.....but none that I'm aware of. if "made in USA" is what's impt to you then this is one of your option (if not the only). I almost bought the ER-IC but I didn't want to mess w/ the car too much. (brackets and removal of bumpers).

4) the FMIC is not connected to the turbo inlet. u also don't need to remove the IC to do the turbo inlet as far as I remember. one thing I'm sure of, if you think the charge pipe was tough, the turbo inlet will give you nightmares. It's easily 2x harder and tighter. I don't know how the others w/ big hands were able to. myb coz I also did the blow-off valve w/ that mod.

Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com

1) Did anyone notice any increase/decrease in throttle response once you swapped over to the ER IC?

You won't notice any decrease in the throttle as long as you are running stage 2 boost maps.

2) If someone dyno'd the car afterwards, but did you see any HP/Torque improvements on a stock tune post IC change (this is more general with any of the larger ICs)?

The temps rise from your first pull, so the performance increase can easily be noticeable on the dyno or datalog. And the more pulls you do back to back, the more significant the difference in performance will be.

3) Would you say the ER IC was worth it? I know the install is a lot more complicated given you have to take off the bumper and some braces I believe (I'm using my local shop, so will likely have a larger labor bill), but do you think it was worth it/benefit the overall setup?

An upgraded intercooler on this car is a must. And ER is the best quality intercooler on the market. It's the only one made in the US, as far as I know.

4) Would you recommend swapping the Turbo Inlet at the same? I already have the ER Charge Pipes installed (was a pain, but I also have gorilla hands) but figured its worth inquiring about the Turbo Inlet if I'm taking it to the shop anyways.

Upgrading the inlet will improve the airflow to your turbo and improve the performance.

[3t3p]

I'd I recall correctly I made around 8-9 peak extra HP on stock map just with addition of DO88 FMIC, MST V2 turbo inlet, forge charge pipe and turbosmart DV valve.

Ambient conditions similar but runs were not done on same day. Same tank of fuel though.

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by 3t3p

I'd I recall correctly I made around 8-9 peak extra HP on stock map just with addition of DO88 FMIC, MST V2 turbo inlet, forge charge pipe and turbosmart DV valve.

Ambient conditions similar but runs were not done on same day. Same tank of fuel though.

[Dabozo]

mike, long while ago you had reco the AA FMIC for my application...never bothered because i thought i would move on to another car but have decided to keep her and plan to make some upgrades.
-live in toronto
-no track likely
-have FS sport car (purchased from you -love it!)
-plan to go bm3 stg 1 and then 2.
-everything else is stock but other than maybe a catback exhaust, charge pipe, i dont plan on upgrading turbo etc...

what u recommend for a FMIC? And would your answer change if i stayed stg 1?

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by Dabozo

mike, long while ago you had reco the AA FMIC for my application...never bothered because i thought i would move on to another car but have decided to keep her and plan to make some upgrades.
-live in toronto
-no track likely
-have FS sport car (purchased from you -love it!)
-plan to go bm3 stg 1 and then 2.
-everything else is stock but other than maybe a catback exhaust, charge pipe, i dont plan on upgrading turbo etc...

what u recommend for a FMIC? And would your answer change if i stayed stg 1?

If you are unsure whether you will be going to stage 2, I recommend getting a race high-density intercooler so that if you upgrade, you do not have to change the intercooler.
The race intercooler is meant for stage 2 but will work well with stage 1.

MAD and BMS are the two most popular high-density intercoolers that we offer.

If you are staying with stage 1 for sure, you probably want to get a 5" high-density intercooler. It will perform the same as the race on the street, but it's lighter and will cost you less.

[Dabozo]

mike i see 5" and 7.5" for MAD...not 6". And yes, i will def be going stg 2 ...

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by Dabozo

mike i see 5" and 7.5" for MAD...not 6". And yes, i will def be going stg 2 ...

MAD 5" for the F chassis, part number MAD-1010
MAD 7" for the F chassis, called MAD Race, part number MAD-011

i'll fix my first post to avoid any confusion

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by Dabozo

mike i see 5" and 7.5" for MAD...not 6". And yes, i will def be going stg 2 ...

In the MADs price range, it’s a good deal. Basically most 5” cores will be interchangeable. The extra 1” depth on the 6” cores (CSF IS 5.5”) isn’t really as important as good frontal area/fin density. The MAD and BMS have 16/fins - per inch, the AA and CTS around 12-14, (the AA and CTS are about 4-4.5” depth I think) They will not cool as well.

To that end, something like the MAD and BMS both have the same fin density compared to something like the DO88 (a 6” core) - they will perform about the same.


TL: DR

Mike is right, get the BMS or MAD.

[Dabozo]

thank you both!

[k_mann]

Looking for IC recommendation for tracked car in the midwest. Goal is just to prevent power loss mainly, stock operated fine under 65F. Plan to add catless dp and a light tune as well

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by k_mann

Looking for IC recommendation for tracked car in the midwest. Goal is just to prevent power loss mainly, stock operated fine under 65F. Plan to add catless dp and a light tune as well

I would recommend the Wagner EVO 1.

Thanks to its tube and fin construction, it's lightweight and offers a significant upgrade over the stock version.

Considering that you don't intend to increase the power substantially beyond the stock level, a high-density core won't be necessary for your needs.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com

I would recommend the Wagner EVO 1.

Thanks to its tube and fin construction, it's lightweight and offers a significant upgrade over the stock version.

Considering that you don't intend to increase the power substantially beyond the stock level, a high-density core won't be necessary for your needs.

I’m going to vehemently 100% disagree with you.
The Evo 1 is expensive and absolutely under performs in all objective measures.

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

Please review the logs above:

-It recovers the same rate as stock
-The car was virtually stock per him (JB4 not active)
-It was 59 degrees on an overcast day (no direct sunlight)
-Intercooler still reached over 45 degree deltas

I’m guess I don’t see what’s so impressive about that? I’ve been to COTA (watched Formula 1 race, walked the course) and it’s a big course - and Texas is HOT. This is literally the best case scenario —
Example,

120iats once his pace picks up.

Edit: 130iat here

This is a EVO 1 tested on a basically stock N55 335i that sees MAYBE 8-10psi. There are deltas in temps of 52F.

It did even worse in a single gear pull on a JB4 car.

It’s not fit for a stage 1 N55 (about par for a M2) and it’s absolutely unfit for any type of track duty.

If you don’t want to modify anything, the CSF and the VRSF Competition are the Best Buy’s, but the VRSF is a tighter fit.

If you don’t mid pulling the bumper, the VRSF Race. MAD Race and ER are going to be the top of the line. I’m not recommending the Evo 3 because of its price to performance ratio and because it is being claimed to cause coolant issues.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by mikew2069

Well guys, I kind of screwed the pooch on my logs. Yesterday at 71.6* F, I did three back to back runs from 50-100mph. Believe it or not, we had identical weather today and when I went back out to do the comparison logs, it was also exactly 71.6* F. That's the good news.

The bad news is that I did three back to back runs from 50-100mph and the momentI was finished, I realized that I was in comfort mode when I was in Sport+ yesterday. So I then immediately put it in Sport+ and did it again. I am posting the comparison logs from the Comfort run and the Sport+ run. Although there are obvious gains here, I think the true story will be told when its hotter outside. As soon as it gets to 80* here, I'll post more logs....

Stock Sport+ vs Wagner Comfort

Wagner Comfort Log 72deg by mikew2069, on Flickr

Stock Sport+ vs Wagner Sport+ (Immediately after the Comfort runs)

Wagner Sport+ Log 72deg by mikew2069, on Flickr

As you can see - it’s a poor performer with just a “stage 1” tune (stock M2) it’s basically as bad a stock by 3rd gear.

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

I’m going to vehemently 100% disagree with you.

I know

While I acknowledge that a higher-density core may indeed improve cooling efficiency, considering the power output and the objective to use the car on the track, I believe that the lighter Wagner option could provide greater benefits.

[Info@mad-us.com]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

I’m going to vehemently 100% disagree with you.
The Evo 1 is expensive and absolutely under performs in all objective measures.



This is a EVO 1 tested on a basically stock N55 335i that sees MAYBE 8-10psi. There are deltas in temps of 52F.

It did even worse in a single gear pull on a JB4 car.

It’s not fit for a stage 1 N55 (about par for a M2) and it’s absolutely unfit for any type of track duty.

If you don’t want to modify anything, the CSF and the VRSF Competition are the Best Buy’s, but the VRSF is a tighter fit.

If you don’t mid pulling the bumper, the VRSF Race. MAD Race and ER are going to be the top of the line. I’m not recommending the Evo 3 because of its price to performance ratio and because it is being claimed to cause coolant issues.

Our 5” is still a great option over the factory cooler and does not require removing the bumper.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by Info@mad-us.com

Our 5” is still a great option over the factory cooler and does not require removing the bumper.

It’s on par with all the other 5” cores so it’s not a bad option, especially at its price point(Probably the best deal) the VRSF just has 1.5” of depth, and a denser fin pack (18 vs 16) The difference between all of them is likely small, until you get into the race intercoolers.

[mikeyryap]

So with me currently running CTS cold air intake, MHD stage 2 and VRSF catless downpipe, would the front mount intercooler be necessary? If so is VRSF a good one for that or do I need other brands

[vrooooom]

You mean you’re still running the stock IC with a stage-2?

I’m almost certain everyone here would recommend that you upgrade that stock IC.