06-20-2019, 05:14 PM | #45 |
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For me my M2C is a weekend toy, so there is zero reason for me to spec DCT.
Does that make DCT and its brethren like PDK bad? Far from it. In fact not even close. If I was going to daily my M2C, DCT is a no brainer, imo. I think having two options for driving preference and usage, be it daily or weekender is a win win all around. This whole MT vs DCT argument is silly at best. |
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06-20-2019, 05:25 PM | #46 | ||
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06-20-2019, 07:12 PM | #47 |
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I should have known when I posted the review that adding a comment about the DCT would spark a DTC vs Manual thread.
I like Savagegeese’s reviews a lot. However some of them are like 35 plus minutes long. That’s a long time to be watching something on YouTube. |
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06-20-2019, 07:35 PM | #48 | |
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Anyway, I thought his use-case driven decision making between the Supra and the M2 was actually the best part of the video. He says the M2 is the the more fun street car and the Supra is the more precise machine if you are interested in competitive auto cross. It fits my decision to get the M2. If I want my car to be competitive... I would probably be doing that in a track built Miata or similar vs hoping my brand new $50-65k street car is "competitive" out of the box. |
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06-20-2019, 08:05 PM | #49 |
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He's the best yt car reviewer in the biz atm.
BMW manuals? Far from best in its game. Rubbery, numb... DCT is arguably better than PDK. Visceral.
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06-20-2019, 08:06 PM | #50 |
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His review of the OG M2 left him really unimpressed. I like his reviews too. It kind of cut me deep
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06-20-2019, 08:46 PM | #51 |
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The slowest cars on track are those with DCT, all Dinan goodies, carbon fiber aero appendages, and CCB’s.
All joking aside, his review may have been honest, but it was full of inaccuracies and delivered in a manner that to me came across all wrong. Also, the lap times posted by the M2C do not point out to an oversteery untamable beast. Just saying. Some look to reviews to validate or invalidate their purchases or decisions. Reviewers can sometimes put things into context, but they can also be jaded by other cars they’ve experienced. Reality often times falls in between, is what I’ve found.
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06-20-2019, 08:57 PM | #52 |
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I'm an OG patreon donor for Savage Geese.
Love his production quality and Tubowski. I thought the review was really good. His archives are really good. |
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06-20-2019, 09:43 PM | #53 | ||
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06-20-2019, 10:10 PM | #54 | |
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I'm test driving a M2C DCT on July 15th when the M Town Tour is coming to my local BMW dealership. If I find it engaging and fun on the streets, I might just sell my M240i and upgrade. If I drove my car more on the streets, I wouldn't even consider doing this, but I live where the roads are crap 6 months of the year and being a new father of 2 little ones, I don't have much free time for weekend joy rides anymore. So now I'm leaning more towards a track 1st, street 2nd type of car with the DCT transmission being the major factor there. One thing I found interesting in this video review was that they were going on and on about how the M2C would actually not make for a good track car "because the rear end gets too loose too easily." I saw 1st hand on track how superior the M2 Competitions were in the turns compared to my M240i. I'm sure with a little throttle discipline, the M2 Competition would make for a fine weekend warrior.
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06-20-2019, 10:56 PM | #55 | |
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The other thing is that some drivers don't think a car corners good unless it's on rails the whole time, and that is somewhat of an artificial requirement. Fastest time is what counts on a track and cornering on rails isn't necessarily the best or only way to get that out of a car. |
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06-20-2019, 11:00 PM | #56 | |
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Agreed! Let's be clear. Driving a manual well is a skill. Heel/toe downshifts are a skill, and I would wager that most people don't know know to do it. Fact: DCT/auto transmissions require little to no skill. Let the fire rage.... |
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06-20-2019, 11:49 PM | #58 | ||
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Granted I'm playing devils advocate a bit... I've had multiple manuals, autos and DCTs. I'm 34 and still long for manual gear changes when I'm out for a fun cruise. Day to day, drinking my coffee and eating on the way to work in moderate traffic I love an auto/DCT. So neither is perfect, neither sucks. As for the DCT is great but I'd take a manual over an auto argument ... I honestly only get that unless you're a fanboy bc although I understand they are different, they're much closer to each other than a manual and DCT. So why on earth would you go from 2 pedals to 3? I'm skeptical about the new M3 auto but that's bc I enjoy a manual in my "fun" car... and no PDK or DCT I've owned gets close. I had way more fun driving my F80 6MT over the F80 with DCT I had ... sure hope they keep giving us options and I hope the auto satisfies the DCT crowd, too.
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06-20-2019, 11:49 PM | #59 | |
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The DCT will get by shifting its own gears but it will never be anywhere near as good as an automatic gear box, mainly because it isn’t. The joy of the DCT is in shifting your own gears. It’s bloody amazing. It sounds so good, feels so fast. It’s an incredibly engaging drives. Moreso than the manual in my opinion. As for the skill aspect in driving manual. Try this. Place one hand on your tummy and rotate in a clockwise direction. Now with the other hand pat yourself on the head. If you can do this you have more skill than is needed to heel and toe. As far as driving goes, it’s probably the simplest skill there is. |
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06-21-2019, 07:26 AM | #60 | |
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What differentiates a woman's style of arguing from a man's. |
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06-21-2019, 07:39 AM | #61 | |
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I had a blast on the test drive doing DCT in "manual" mode. lot of fun. a lot more fun than my zf in the x5 (though that is fun too). great shift speed and responsiveness. a lot of fun. and I am a MT guy. all my previous sports cars have been MT. I personally didn't feel cheated by not having to pump my left leg for every shift.
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06-21-2019, 07:42 AM | #62 | |
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06-21-2019, 07:44 AM | #63 | ||
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"Here's what I don't get. Every "manual guy" driver drives a DCT like an automatic then complains about it and declares they take joy in shifting their own gears. " because there's no third pedal. Without a third pedal that requires precise control and provides feedback to the driver each time you disengage the tranny between shifts, there's really no point in driving the dct around in manual mode all the time. Dct makes the daily drive boring. It's like playing a video game a hitting r1 for upshoft and r2 for downshift, why bother. Been driving stick exclusively since I got my license for 20 years now, traffic and all, hope they keep it around.
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06-21-2019, 08:22 AM | #64 |
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He's not my favorite but I like that he is one of the few in the automotive media that was willing to address the manual transmission problems in the Civic Type R. It's a good video as he explains how automakers purposely never admit to known problems until it escalates to a point where they have no choice.
All the reviews of the Civic describe it as a brilliant manual transmission but plenty of owners have had issues and I wonder sometimes if media kind of avoids being critical of this stuff because they badly want the manual transmission to remain relevant as they will always point out the flaws in a DCT or other Auto transmission but rarely will they pick apart a manual transmission. Heck several posters here seem to believe the M2 manual transmission isn't very good but have you ever seen a single review where the reviewer said anything bad about it? |
06-21-2019, 08:45 AM | #65 | |
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06-21-2019, 09:17 AM | #66 | ||
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