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      12-19-2019, 12:54 PM   #8801
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Originally Posted by Joekerr View Post
Depends on whether you bought a tariff'd good or not. If you did, then you paid. Tariffs are taxes paid by the importer of the tariff'd good to the government. That importer may be American or may not. But they generally don't have the margin to just bear the tariff and so they pass it along to the end consumer (americans, like you) in the form of an increased price.

In addition, because of the capitalist society in which we operate, the domestic producers of that good then raise their prices too in order to generate more profit.



I'm not arguing about the Chinese currency. I don't think devaluation and the government interference is right. But I'm not confident you didn't experience an increase in cost based on how tariffs work, see above.

But hypothetically - let's say that happened - so China lost a percentage of their buying power. How did that result in China paying the US anything (which is what you first postulated). Losing buying power is not the same as the US getting any dollars.

The people who pay are the ones in the home country IF they continue to buy tariff'd goods that are not made domestically. That's the whole point of tariffs. To encourage / protect domestic production to the detriment of foreign production.

Trump is not playing 3 dimensional chess with China. They blocked him from building hotels there so he's got an ax to grind. With Trump it's as about him. Don't get me wrong I have no respect in the way China operates
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      12-19-2019, 12:58 PM   #8802
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joekerr View Post
Depends on whether you bought a tariff'd good or not. If you did, then you paid. Tariffs are taxes paid by the importer of the tariff'd good to the government. That importer may be American or may not. But they generally don't have the margin to just bear the tariff and so they pass it along to the end consumer (americans, like you) in the form of an increased price.

In addition, because of the capitalist society in which we operate, the domestic producers of that good then raise their prices too in order to generate more profit.



I'm not arguing about the Chinese currency. I don't think devaluation and the government interference is right. But I'm not confident you didn't experience an increase in cost based on how tariffs work, see above.

But hypothetically - let's say that happened - so China lost a percentage of their buying power. How did that result in China paying the US anything (which is what you first postulated). Losing buying power is not the same as the US getting any dollars.

The people who pay are the ones in the home country IF they continue to buy tariff'd goods that are not made domestically. That's the whole point of tariffs. To encourage / protect domestic production to the detriment of foreign production.
This is spot on. I built my house last year and from the time that the planning happened to actual construction (3 months permits/demo/etc) the costs of the raw materials all jumped 25-40%. Even things that didn't have tariffs discussed like lumber had a jump. Metal jumped much higher.

So yeah, I got to pay lots extra due to suppliers raising prices in anticipation of tariffs or increases in supply related operational costs.
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      12-19-2019, 01:01 PM   #8803
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Originally Posted by NormanConquest View Post
they made everything more expensive for themselves to purchase just to keep the prices the same at the consumer level (our side) due to the fear a slow down in purchases.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-49245654

So in short at the point since the prices of most goods was not effected due to the currency devaluement offsetting the tariff in the Chinese people who paid for the tariff as I stated earlier.
Still going along the hypothetical that prices weren't affected (I suspect they were, certainly I know steel was for sure with the tariff), what you said was, and I quote "We didn't pay anything, it came from the traiff collected which was paid by China..."

You can argue Chinese people paid a price by lower buying power, sure, but that isn't what you said. You said the US COLLECTED money paid by China from the tariffs. And I'm asking how. Because I don't think they paid anything to the US.

Let's stipulate that their buying power was reduced in this hypothetical, I'm not arguing that, so let's not go back to it as though I am arguing it. I'm not.

What I want to know is how did a dollar from China go into US coffers as a result of tariffs.
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      12-19-2019, 01:24 PM   #8804
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Personally, I'm fine with putting tariffs on China specifically; and I sell products that are directly impacted by them!

Everyone across the political spectrum agrees they're a bad actor on many levels. Something has to be done. I think it's fair to think imposing tariffs is a wrong move, but that's what the person the country elected to make these decisions decided to do. As Mulvaney said... deal with it. Elections have consequences. I sure as Hell have had other Presidents make decisions I didn't agree with. I got a long list of things President Obama did that I disagreed with. Perhaps the difference is I'm an adult and realize everything isn't always going to go the way I'd like.
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      12-19-2019, 05:17 PM   #8805
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joekerr View Post
Still going along the hypothetical that prices weren't affected (I suspect they were, certainly I know steel was for sure with the tariff), what you said was, and I quote "We didn't pay anything, it came from the traiff collected which was paid by China..."

You can argue Chinese people paid a price by lower buying power, sure, but that isn't what you said. You said the US COLLECTED money paid by China from the tariffs. And I'm asking how. Because I don't think they paid anything to the US.

Let's stipulate that their buying power was reduced in this hypothetical, I'm not arguing that, so let's not go back to it as though I am arguing it. I'm not.

What I want to know is how did a dollar from China go into US coffers as a result of tariffs.
I guess the best way to put it is both of us are paying in different ways but China more so since the depend on us more then we depend on them

https://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapo.../#4c00f9631fae
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      12-19-2019, 06:12 PM   #8806
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Miss- Why in the world does he bash dead guys? That is ugly.
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      12-19-2019, 08:50 PM   #8807
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Hit- the mess of the preposterous impeachment of the President didnít stop the Republican party from setting a fundraising record in the month of November with over 20 million added to the war chest.
On top of that, the market today set a new high record, nobodies worried about the stupid threats from the paper tiger dems.
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      12-20-2019, 10:08 AM   #8808
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Originally Posted by N54Yankee View Post
Hit- the mess of the preposterous impeachment of the President didnít stop the Republican party from setting a fundraising record in the month of November with over 20 million added to the war chest.
On top of that, the market today set a new high record, nobodies worried about the stupid threats from the paper tiger dems.
People out here not enjoying their lives worrying about shit they can't control. That shit will kill you quicker. Makes no sense to me.

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      12-20-2019, 03:28 PM   #8809
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Who saw the close today?
I did, I did.
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      12-20-2019, 05:47 PM   #8810
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Who saw the close today?
I did, I did.
As I noted in another thread, he has no positive influence on the market. If anything, he's had a detrimental impact. I work in mergers and acquisitions on the due diligence side. On a daily basis, I'm privy to internal company documents and shareholder meeting records that discuss how US companies are having to respond the tariffs and how those costs are being directly transferred to you and me.
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      12-20-2019, 06:00 PM   #8811
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Originally Posted by XutvJet View Post
As I noted in another thread, he has no positive influence on the market. If anything, he's had a detrimental impact. I work in mergers and acquisitions on the due diligence side. On a daily basis, I'm privy to internal company documents and shareholder meeting records that discuss how US companies are having to respond the tariffs and how those costs are being directly transferred to you and me.
Put down the crackpipe man. Most financial experts predict if trump loses the election the market will tank.

You can't make this shit up...wait..you did
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      12-20-2019, 08:05 PM   #8812
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adc100 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by XutvJet View Post
As I noted in another thread, he has no positive influence on the market. If anything, he's had a detrimental impact. I work in mergers and acquisitions on the due diligence side. On a daily basis, I'm privy to internal company documents and shareholder meeting records that discuss how US companies are having to respond the tariffs and how those costs are being directly transferred to you and me.
Put down the crackpipe man. Most financial experts predict if trump loses the election the market will tank.

You can't make this shit up...wait..you did
Sure.......Says the Trump supporter
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      12-20-2019, 09:26 PM   #8813
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if you only went by headlines you would think illegal immigration is no longer a thing, children in "cages" was resolved, border crisis resolved, rashida tlaib didn't blame an african american racist anti-semite for being a white supremicist, elon musk solved flint's water problem, ms-13 doesn't exist, joe biden's never made a ridiculous gaffe; ever, jussie's fake hate crime never happened, eppstein is still alive, las vegas shooting never happened, russia collusion never happened, popeye's has plenty of sandwiches and dt is no longer president. funny how "news" turns to "olds" based on what "they" want us to start thinking. now let's not focus on how the party of diversity has all white wealthy people on stage pretending to champion for the poor and people of color. who needs comedy central when ever news outlet has more amusing content?
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      12-20-2019, 09:39 PM   #8814
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Originally Posted by iconoclast View Post
if you only went by headlines you would think illegal immigration is no longer a thing, children in "cages" was resolved, border crisis resolved, rashida tlaib didn't blame an african american racist anti-semite for being a white supremicist, elon musk solved flint's water problem, ms-13 doesn't exist, joe biden's never made a ridiculous gaffe; ever, jussie's fake hate crime never happened, eppstein is still alive, las vegas shooting never happened, russia collusion never happened, popeye's has plenty of sandwiches and dt is no longer president. funny how "news" turns to "olds" based on what "they" want us to start thinking. now let's not focus on how the party of diversity has all white wealthy people on stage pretending to champion for the poor and people of color. who needs comedy central when ever news outlet has more amusing content?
Complains about the news.........,Which news should we be focusing on? How Trump betrayed The country? Steven Miller and his white supremacy Seems to also Have been forgotten.
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      12-20-2019, 09:43 PM   #8815
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At first glance, I like this


Nord Stream 2: Trump approves sanctions on Russia gas pipeline https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-50875935
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      12-20-2019, 09:44 PM   #8816
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Complains about the news.........,Which news should we be focusing on? How Trump betrayed The country? Steven Miller and his white supremacy Seems to also Have been forgotten.
How did Trump betray the country? By denying HRC her's turn?
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      12-20-2019, 09:46 PM   #8817
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Originally Posted by Captain Blood View Post
At first glance, I like this


Nord Stream 2: Trump approves sanctions on Russia gas pipeline https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-50875935
Gee he a really lousy pawn if he punishing the puppet master.
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      12-20-2019, 09:48 PM   #8818
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NormanConquest View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Blood View Post
At first glance, I like this


Nord Stream 2: Trump approves sanctions on Russia gas pipeline https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-50875935
Gee he a really lousy pawn if he punishing the puppet master.
Many people, when finding that someone they've been opposed to in the past, find they agree with them on a subject, they attempt to find more common ground. Your boldly going in another direction.
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      12-20-2019, 09:50 PM   #8819
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Complains about the news.........,Which news should we be focusing on?
Simply referring to the main news outlets that broadcast the furthest and widest which get the most exposure. You decide which those are.
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      12-20-2019, 09:58 PM   #8820
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iconoclast View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Blood View Post
Complains about the news.........,Which news should we be focusing on?
Simply referring to the main news outlets that broadcast the furthest and widest which get the most exposure. You decide which those are.
So you have better news outlets?
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      12-20-2019, 10:26 PM   #8821
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No, I have the same and watch the same as you and everyone else. I cannot be alone in noticing that some of the most talked about topics of 2019 have fallen out of the headlines.
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      12-21-2019, 12:07 AM   #8822
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As I noted in another thread, he has no positive influence on the market. If anything, he's had a detrimental impact. I work in mergers and acquisitions on the due diligence side. On a daily basis, I'm privy to internal company documents and shareholder meeting records that discuss how US companies are having to respond the tariffs and how those costs are being directly transferred to you and me.
This. Iím in the same space. This is just plain stupid, but you know... MAGA or whatever?!?!
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