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      09-28-2015, 01:21 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wositsch
It will be really weird if the M2 gets this engine. Here are some thoughts why. First of all, if you look at the 340i (B58) with the new M performance power and sound kit, then you'll see it has 360PS (355bhp) and 500Nm (369ft-lbs) of torgue (Link). So the same power as the X4 M40i, but more torque (35Nm). But the pre-LCI F30 335i with the MPP kit had the exact figures as the M235i. And now the new M240i is going to have just ~15hp more than the standard 340i (according to ynguldyn) and ~20hp less than the 340i with MPP kit.

What I'm trying to say is that, if this is all true, then BMW is going to have 3 different engine outputs with 2 different engines with just 20PS difference between them. 360PS for N55 (X4, M2) and B58 (340i MPP), ~340PS for B58 (M240i). Which to me doesn't make any sense. Why don't they put the B58 with 360PS into the M2? It has more torque, max power is between 5500-6500rpm (revs higher) and it's a newer engine than the N55.

Or am I missing something?
It's all about costs for the M2 (for nostalgia you know like the 1M...not to actually cut costs and make more k£rrching).

Still surely it's all about to get leaked a little ahead of the supposed Oct 14th.

Actually why is any kind of a release date still under wraps? Odd.
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      09-28-2015, 02:19 PM   #90
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Audi tunes their 3.0 V6 supercharged engine to different power levels for different cars as well, but they don't use it in an RS car. The SQ5 has the highest power (I think) followed by S4, A6/7, Q7, Q5, etc. perhaps BMW is going this route as well. Use a well designed and reliable engine and control your lineup with power levels. I certainly hope that isn't the case, but it's not necessarily the end of the world.
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      09-28-2015, 03:07 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by Transfer View Post
Audi tunes their 3.0 V6 supercharged engine to different power levels for different cars as well, but they don't use it in an RS car. The SQ5 has the highest power (I think) followed by S4, A6/7, Q7, Q5, etc. perhaps BMW is going this route as well. Use a well designed and reliable engine and control your lineup with power levels. I certainly hope that isn't the case, but it's not necessarily the end of the world.
If they go that route, they should just go all the way and make it an "ala-carte" ordering system, where you pick the body style, whatever engine you want and the options available for that particular car. That would be awesome. 😎
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      09-28-2015, 03:15 PM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris The Manx View Post
It's all about costs for the M2 (for nostalgia you know like the 1M...not to actually cut costs and make more k£rrching).

Still surely it's all about to get leaked a little ahead of the supposed Oct 14th.

Actually why is any kind of a release date still under wraps? Odd.
Exactly.. it is about costs... and apparently some are not considering the US FEDERALIZATION process whereupon BMW must CRASH each model with EACH motor configuration. There is a reason that BMW has such a limited range of motor options on their diesel model vehicles... and it's clear that they don't like paying a ton of money to crash a bunch of cars.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmboone25 View Post
If they go that route, they should just go all the way and make it an "ala-carte" ordering system, where you pick the body style, whatever engine you want and the options available for that particular car. That would be awesome. ��
so would winning the lottery.. add that to your " field of dreams " list..

Note that the Audi method above uses one engine.. with varied tunes.....one way to avoid crash testing each engine configuration
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      09-28-2015, 06:13 PM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hazey82 View Post
Are you keeping the m3? I've thought about keeping the M3 for all the reasons of timeless design, special raw feeling and NA sweet six while getting the M2. But I know the new car bug has hit and Id be waking up early in the morning always choosing the M2. I just couldn't justify 45K current value to sit there and look pretty and talk about it at the pub to people.
Yes,definitely keeping it when I get the M2.I actually don't think I will ever sell it.IMO the E46 M3 is the last of the classic old school BMW's and I still have a blast driving it.I just hope the M2 measures up to how much I have enjoyed my car.I will definitely still keep driving it regularly when I get the M2.The only thing I have to decide is if I order the M2 in manual or DCT.My E46 is 6MT and I will probably also order the M2 with the manual tranny but man those shifts are quick in the new M3 with the DCT.
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      09-29-2015, 02:44 PM   #94
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When the M2 Drops. I would not like to see pointless debate on whether its an M car which is currently ongoing at the moment.
Although using the same engine as both X4 M40i and M440i Gran Coupe.
The M2 is developed to work in tandem with the separate engineering and chassis development of a smaller car like the M2 to whether is this an M? It is the same question as before with the 1er M Coupe. Yes...
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      09-29-2015, 02:47 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26
When the M2 Drops. I would not like to see pointless debate on whether its an M car which is currently ongoing at the moment.
Although using the same engine as both X4 M40i and M440i Gran Coupe.
The M2 is developed to work in tandem with the separate engineering and chassis development of a smaller car like the M2 to whether is this an M? It is the same question as before with the 1er M Coupe. Yes...
Good to have confirmation to end the speculation on the engine but trust me this is not what most of us were hoping for.

Interesting to see what the price delta would be between M440 grand coupe and M3
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      09-29-2015, 11:44 PM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
When the M2 Drops. I would not like to see pointless debate on whether its an M car which is currently ongoing at the moment.
Although using the same engine as both X4 M40i and M440i Gran Coupe.
The M2 is developed to work in tandem with the separate engineering and chassis development of a smaller car like the M2 to whether is this an M? It is the same question as before with the 1er M Coupe. Yes...
I keep trying to tell 'em.. but they HATE the broken record Scott...

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobloblaw View Post

As far as the whining goes.. oh, believe me.. it will happen... I would love to not have to be a witness..
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      09-30-2015, 02:44 AM   #97
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Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
I keep trying to tell 'em.. but they HATE the broken record Scott...

As far as the whining goes.. oh, believe me.. it will happen... I would love to not have to be a witness..
At this point, I'm convinced you're a BMW PR bot with defensiveness turned up to a 10. 90% of the "whining" about the car are just concerns or discussions and almost all of them are justifiable or at least arguable. I think you're kind of blinded by something that you can't see this. Trust me, the vast vast majority of us want to see this car succeed just as much as you do.
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      09-30-2015, 04:56 AM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
When the M2 Drops. I would not like to see pointless debate on whether its an M car which is currently ongoing at the moment.
Although using the same engine as both X4 M40i and M440i Gran Coupe.
The M2 is developed to work in tandem with the separate engineering and chassis development of a smaller car like the M2 to whether is this an M? It is the same question as before with the 1er M Coupe. Yes...
There is always gonna be those who question the authenticy of a car specially if they belong to the old school population of BMW drivers, I Guess a lot of people think BMW stopped making real "M" cars after the E46 and E91+ models.

I my self find it quite exciting that BMW actually dears to go the whole hog. I would love to see even more development around smaller engines with more power & torque then the previous ones both for the sake of dropping weight and lowering mpg and getting maximum performance out of them.

The V8s of old are still good but BMW has to adapt to the world market or they will go under, I for one would not like to see BMW go under just because they decided to stand still while the world was moving forward just to satisfy a certain customer base because "The cars should just be as it was before" then whats the point of developing a new car if it ain't gonna change?

For me the M235i is "M" as it will be for the 2er model until the real M2 gets here. But i will not say i have the new M2 of course not, But it is the M version of the 2er until the M2 gets here and takes the spot. Have to see it like this the M235i is holding the seat for the M2 until it gets here.

We have a saying here in Sweden "Fint folk kommer alltid sent" Translated to English i guess it would be something like "Save the best for last"

So agree with scott on regarding the thing on classifying a car as a "M" or not. Its kinda a pointless discussion.
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      09-30-2015, 07:03 AM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
When the M2 drops, I would not like to see pointless debate on whether it's an M car which is currently ongoing at the moment. Although using the same engine as both X4 M40i and M440i Gran Coupe. The M2 is developed to work in tandem with the separate engineering and chassis development of a smaller car like the M2 to whether is this an M? It is the same question as before with the 1er M Coupe. Yes...
Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
I keep trying to tell 'em.. but they HATE the broken record Scott...
As far as the whining goes.. oh, believe me.. it will happen... I would love to not have to be a witness..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alden_88M View Post
So agree with scott on regarding the thing on classifying a car as a "M" or not. Its kinda a pointless discussion.
Yup, let's anticipate to that already. Actually, we don't mind playing some old records, such as for example this one: a video of June 2011 featuring Chris Harris' take on the "it's not a proper ///M car" debate (from 02:44 onwards). CH may have kinda nailed it:



BMW invited CH in Fall 2010 for a test drive of a 1M test mule. Prior to have known the specs and having driven it, he explains his recipe for an ///M car (see from 01:00 onwards):



And he got behind the wheel of the 1M for a third time for an EVO video at the end of 2011 for the Car Of The Year review:



The end.

Given his notoriety, competence and exposure - now even more than back in 2010/2011 - I guess CH will be one of the first non-BMW folks invited to drive the M2.
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      09-30-2015, 07:37 AM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alden_88M View Post
There is always gonna be those who question the authenticy of a car specially if they belong to the old school population of BMW drivers, I Guess a lot of people think BMW stopped making real "M" cars after the E46 and E91+ models.

I my self find it quite exciting that BMW actually dears to go the whole hog. I would love to see even more development around smaller engines with more power & torque then the previous ones both for the sake of dropping weight and lowering mpg and getting maximum performance out of them.

The V8s of old are still good but BMW has to adapt to the world market or they will go under, I for one would not like to see BMW go under just because they decided to stand still while the world was moving forward just to satisfy a certain customer base because "The cars should just be as it was before" then whats the point of developing a new car if it ain't gonna change?

For me the M235i is "M" as it will be for the 2er model until the real M2 gets here. But i will not say i have the new M2 of course not, But it is the M version of the 2er until the M2 gets here and takes the spot. Have to see it like this the M235i is holding the seat for the M2 until it gets here.

We have a saying here in Sweden "Fint folk kommer alltid sent" Translated to English i guess it would be something like "Save the best for last"

So agree with scott on regarding the thing on classifying a car as a "M" or not. Its kinda a pointless discussion.
You had me at this part. The M235i is nothing more than some badges and some "M tuned" parts. It's basically what the "is" models were (335is, 135is). It was never meant to be an "M" version of anything until the real M version came out. It almost seems that you took the marketing hook, line, and sinker.

Also, about the change. The enthusiasts want change, they just want evolution or development of the same formula.

I am excited about the M2, but wouldn't it be more exciting if the car had it's own unique "M" engine? Just like the M3/M4, M5/M6, X5M/X6M.
It seems like the bean counters got and execs, were the real ones that dictated what engine the M2 got. Because, with a lighter car than the M4, M Division cannot justify a car that will come close or surpass the legendary M3. So, that is another justification for a tuned up N55.
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      09-30-2015, 08:45 AM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobloblaw View Post
At this point, I'm convinced you're a BMW PR bot with defensiveness turned up to a 10. 90% of the "whining" about the car are just concerns or discussions and almost all of them are justifiable or at least arguable. I think you're kind of blinded by something that you can't see this. Trust me, the vast vast majority of us want to see this car succeed just as much as you do.

LOL at the fact that you said " want this car to succeed"

Perhaps you still aren't picking up what I am putting down... I am saying this car WILL succeed. And so should you! What BMW M car has NOT succeeded in the last ... EVER? Pretty much every M car is EPIC... . This car WILL be phenomenal... and anyone that hasn't figured that part out and gotten in line yet... might could just miss out. SO yes... I'm probably blinded by that because I watched a lot of " it's only a glorified 135 ers" 5 years ago. Trust me.. if it doesn't have a CF roof... or come in red.. or have "M seats" .. it will still be phenomenal.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
When the M2 Drops. I would not like to see pointless debate on whether its an M car which is currently ongoing at the moment.
Although using the same engine as both X4 M40i and M440i Gran Coupe.
The M2 is developed to work in tandem with the separate engineering and chassis development of a smaller car like the M2 to whether is this an M? It is the same question as before with the 1er M Coupe. Yes...

whoa.... I know I'm a senseless, defensive, repetitive PR bot... but... did you also say... M440i Gran Coupe?

I *loves* me some Gran Coupe... BMW should do more...

Last edited by M3 Adjuster; 09-30-2015 at 09:00 AM..
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      09-30-2015, 09:00 AM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IS3andME View Post
You had me at this part. The M235i is nothing more than some badges and some "M tuned" parts. It's basically what the "is" models were (335is, 135is). It was never meant to be an "M" version of anything until the real M version came out. It almost seems that you took the marketing hook, line, and sinker.

Also, about the change. The enthusiasts want change, they just want evolution or development of the same formula.

I am excited about the M2, but wouldn't it be more exciting if the car had it's own unique "M" engine? Just like the M3/M4, M5/M6, X5M/X6M.
It seems like the bean counters got and execs, were the real ones that dictated what engine the M2 got. Because, with a lighter car than the M4, M Division cannot justify a car that will come close or surpass the legendary M3. So, that is another justification for a tuned up N55.
Ofcourse it would be cool if it had its own different engine, But i still believe even with the N55 the M2 when it comes its gonna be as real as an "M" can get, If the people over at "M" has worked there magic on it wont even matter that the N55 is the engine cause everything else have been so heavily re-worked that it will be a different car completely it won't even come close to the M235i in how good it will.

I think there is both pro and cons to the usage of N55 engine. As you said if it had a totally new engine stopping at 360 bhp would be in the lowest range of that engine, Unless they were planing to use it for future models, Otherwise it would be a waste of money to develop a totally new engine to be used once and in 5-6 years when the new M2 comes again develop a new once again. Lets remember that the M2 is going to replace the 1M in its own sens. The 1M is like 5-6 years old now i believe wasn't it announced in 2010?

So i think the car will be so heavily worked that it will be justified at having the real "M" name on it self. But until then we should just sit here and cry for them not showing it yet to us
So the BMW M2 will be a real bad ass.
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      09-30-2015, 12:18 PM   #103
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I'll say it again: the M2 with the now almost confirmed specs will be a great car in isolation, but when the M3 exists (for about $10k more) with a bespoke M engine, CF roof, special seats etc.. Suddenly the M2 doesn't look so good anymore.

The M2 should have been a baby M4 with a detuned S55, no one here had any illusions about a brand new engine, instead we are getting a glorified M235 with an LSD and wider track. No thanks.
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      09-30-2015, 12:28 PM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramos View Post
I'll say it again: the M2 with the now almost confirmed specs will be a great car in isolation, but when the M3 exists (for about $10k more) with a bespoke M engine, CF roof, special seats etc.. Suddenly the M2 doesn't look so good anymore.

The M2 should have been a baby M4 with a detuned S55, no one here had any illusions about a brand new engine, instead we are getting a glorified M235 with an LSD and wider track. No thanks.
Disagree completely. If that was the case, none of us would be here. There are PLENTY of forum members that could afford an M3/4, yet here we are on the M2 subforum. Why do you think the hype about this car is still so high, even though pretty much everything about it is already known?

I've driven the M235i and M3/4 back to back and every single time, I've come away preferring the 2er. What's ironic about your post is that when I drive the M3/4 in isolation, I think it's a great car (although the cold start is horrid). When I drove it after a "lowly" M235i, that's when I had doubts about the M3/4.

And think about this: At best, the M3/4 reviews have been all over the map. Some journalists love it, some hate it (Steve Sutcliff comes to mind). I have yet to find a bad review on the M235i. I would not be remotely surprised if the M2 comes out and gets rave reviews.
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      09-30-2015, 12:48 PM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramos View Post
I'll say it again: the M2 with the now almost confirmed specs will be a great car in isolation, but when the M3 exists (for about $10k more) with a bespoke M engine, CF roof, special seats etc.. Suddenly the M2 doesn't look so good anymore.

The M2 should have been a baby M4 with a detuned S55, no one here had any illusions about a brand new engine, instead we are getting a glorified M235 with an LSD and wider track. No thanks.
Looking good/bad on paper is waaay different than actual driving experience. The M2 is not the car for you if you are only concerned about the former.
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      09-30-2015, 12:48 PM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
When the M2 Drops. I would not like to see pointless debate on whether its an M car which is currently ongoing at the moment.
Although using the same engine as both X4 M40i and M440i Gran Coupe.
The M2 is developed to work in tandem with the separate engineering and chassis development of a smaller car like the M2 to whether is this an M? It is the same question as before with the 1er M Coupe. Yes...

A lot of the members here value ///M for its exclusivity and with the amount of development time the M2 has been bestowed, it's tough to imagine 4+ years yields a refreshed 1M in a different suit.

We can lament opportunities missed with the 1M, but this isn't 2011 anymore.

Of course the engineering and chassis development will be different, they're entirely different platforms - we know that. I get the feeling you're disappointed by some of the responses because you're not viewing a crowd of people enchanted with BMW because BMW.

I'm waiting for more info on an M2 CSL.
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      09-30-2015, 01:44 PM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramos View Post
I'll say it again: the M2 with the now almost confirmed specs will be a great car in isolation, but when the M3 exists (for about $10k more) with a bespoke M engine, CF roof, special seats etc.. Suddenly the M2 doesn't look so good anymore.

The M2 should have been a baby M4 with a detuned S55, no one here had any illusions about a brand new engine, instead we are getting a glorified M235 with an LSD and wider track. No thanks.
Although you're going to get flamed by members for this as someone who has both owned and driven the M4 and M235i very recently it feels this way to me sometimes too.

Cue the cries of but its the 1M formula.

But why does it have to be the same 1M formula, even if it is I can't see how this car will become the icon the 1M already is, that boa has sailed and you were on it or not.

This car, the M2, is a modern BMW with at BMWs own admission far greater time spent on getting it right.

I feel now there are 2 differing opinions on the relation to M3/4 and to M235.

Looks wise, I'm just going to say it, it looks closer to M235i than to M4 specialness to me. Now that is based on not even seeing the finished article of course so it kinda nonsense....but it does only look like a wide M235i. No CF. No vents. No mirrors yes (but we know they come last), no bespoke seats? So visually little difference perhaps perhaps not.

Where the magic really lives is how close the M2 is performance and handling wise compared to an M235i and M3/3. The under the hood M engineering will be top notch as will the chassis, the M4 was just magic in that regard...but too large. An M235i body with that level of on the limit composure and handling, my god will be awesome.

Time will tell very soon but I think price will sway many peoples opinion as you have said $10k isn't a massive amount to many who might step up ut many here ate in if for the M2 size and entry M price alone.

Can't wait to see how she pans out now in (hopefully) early October teasers/reveals.

Enjoy your choices all, all the Ms are special with different attributes, choose wisely.
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      09-30-2015, 01:47 PM   #108
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I'm sure it'll be a fun car, and it's far from an m235i, but there's no denying it's less special for using a normal series' engine. Kind of the same way with the Cayman GT4 (on another level I know...) and it's base Carrera engine... The feeling that they intentionally gimped it to save big brother would come every time every time I got behind the wheel, especially if I ever pulled up next to my better sibling at a stoplight...

Little bit of that in the Z4M with gearing, but that's easier to deal with...
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      09-30-2015, 01:48 PM   #109
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I'm actually one of those who tops out at the M2 price wise. If I could comfortably afford an M3 there would probably be one sitting in my garage already.
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      09-30-2015, 02:11 PM   #110
Artemis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramos View Post
I'll say it again: the M2 with the now almost confirmed specs will be a great car in isolation, but when the M3 exists (for about $10k more) with a bespoke M engine, CF roof, special seats etc.. Suddenly the M2 doesn't look so good anymore.
The M2 should have been a baby M4 with a detuned S55, no one here had any illusions about a brand new engine, instead we are getting a glorified M235 with an LSD and wider track. No thanks.
By no means BMW will stop you from ordering an M3 or M4 instead of an M2.
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