BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
BMW M2 Forum > Pricing / Ordering / European Delivery / PCD > 6MT vs DCT & exhaust sound - performance

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      02-06-2017, 06:36 PM   #45
Dav3
Major
Dav3's Avatar
947
Rep
1,027
Posts

Drives: G87 M2/E89 35is/F21 M140i/GT4
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Europe

iTrader: (0)

DCT




6-MT


https host
Appreciate 2
Dackelone10511.00
      02-07-2017, 04:35 PM   #46
doug_999
Brigadier General
doug_999's Avatar
2539
Rep
3,967
Posts

Drives: 2011 1M/2021 992/2023 X3
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Chicago, IL

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZPrime View Post
Obviously DCT is only really found in M-cars, right?
Don't let the guys with 135s and 335is hear you say that - they will start thinking they have a M car!

__________________
2011 1M, Black loaded sans sat radio
2021 911 C4S Gentian Blue, manual
2023 X3 M40i - loaded sans Park Assist
Appreciate 1
ZPrime610.50
      02-07-2017, 05:39 PM   #47
ZPrime
I INDIC8
ZPrime's Avatar
United_States
611
Rep
1,282
Posts

Drives: 2018 LBB M2, 6MT
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Cleveland, OH

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2018 BMW M2  [9.50]
Quote:
Originally Posted by doug_999 View Post
Don't let the guys with 135s and 335is hear you say that - they will start thinking they have a M car!

I wasn't aware the 135 and 335 got the DCT, thought those were the ZF 8speed. My coworker has a 435x and I'm pretty sure that is the 8 speed slushbox... The actual stick itself has the P on top, I thought the easy way to tell them apart was the DCT has the little "M-knob" instead?

I suppose there are no AWD cars with DCT too...
Appreciate 0
      02-07-2017, 05:57 PM   #48
doug_999
Brigadier General
doug_999's Avatar
2539
Rep
3,967
Posts

Drives: 2011 1M/2021 992/2023 X3
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Chicago, IL

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZPrime View Post
I suppose there are no AWD cars with DCT too...
Now you are just getting crazy

(and yes, lots of people wish the X5M/X6M came with DCT)

and yes, the DCT was available on those cars! And believe it or not, it was only $450 (so no, I'm not sure it was the same - but it was DCT) and... the Z4 got it too! forgot about that one.

However, today, you are correct, you can't find it in a non M car. Unless you find a Z4 35is sitting around a dealer lot.
__________________
2011 1M, Black loaded sans sat radio
2021 911 C4S Gentian Blue, manual
2023 X3 M40i - loaded sans Park Assist
Appreciate 0
      02-07-2017, 06:26 PM   #49
amw896
Major
amw896's Avatar
Canada
583
Rep
1,117
Posts

Drives: 2015 BMW M235i
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: ontario

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2015 BMW M235i  [10.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by bim2er
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomwac View Post
The title sounds maybe a bit silly, but I'm on the verge of ordering an M2. I have all the options figured out but can't decide on the transmission. I test drove the DCT but there is no 6MT to be found for a test drive. This will be my wife's car and I know, as a daily, DCT is easier, but I keep reading the rave reviews on the 6MT and just don't want to make a mistake. As it will also be my occasional trackway car (just 1, 2 times a year and some 'ring laps) I just wonder what the performance difference is. I'm quite familiar with DCT as my F83 has it, but I don't know how the 6MT feels on the M2, what the driving experience is. When I put my F83 in sport/sport+ and crank up de DCT setting, all this drama awakens, which makes the car sharp and aggressive, the exhaust burbles and crackles... as the M2 does not have the DCT custom settings, the choice gets even thougher... Is the shifter as precise as, say, GT4, or is it just like a 'normal' 2 series? Short throws? Does the exhaust note change, I read that the car gets too aggressive in sport? Any thoughts are welcome
Happy Wife, Happy Life
wrong wife my dude.

Appreciate 1
doug_9992538.50
      02-12-2017, 04:33 PM   #50
tomwac
First Lieutenant
Belgium
73
Rep
363
Posts

Drives: 545i/520d/320d/S1000R/E24
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Belgium

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benef1cient View Post
No love for manuals in PL.
I'm a bit afraid to choose a manual (although it would be unique then in PL) while going to track.
Myslalem ze Polacy bardziej lubia samochody ... nie kieroj sie tym co inni robia, tylko tym co chcesz ...
Appreciate 0
      02-12-2017, 04:48 PM   #51
tomwac
First Lieutenant
Belgium
73
Rep
363
Posts

Drives: 545i/520d/320d/S1000R/E24
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Belgium

iTrader: (0)

So, BMW Belgium went a long way to arrange a manual for me to test. The DCT car was with all the M Performance goodies + exhaust, while this was a standard equipped car. I went to the test center with no high expectations, but already when I got into the car it felt better: manual seats = lower seating position which suits me much better. Started the car: no droning like with the M Perf exhaust. I'll make the story short: while during the DCT test drive I returned the car after 45min, leaving with the impression that it's a fun little car, but a bit clinical, this time I came back after 1.5h, because I really had to, not because I wanted to. Completely different car, so much more fun. Imo, the M2 is made to be sold with a manual, and this is coming from someone who loves the DCT transmission. But, while in my M4 cab the DCT feels like the 2 are made for each other, the opposite is true for the M2. Rev matching didn't bother me as it's very subtle in comfort mode. In sports mode, the sounds, popping, crackles get very present, the whole car comes alive. Yes, the throw is long and rubbery, sure the clutch pedal has a long travel, but these minuses did not spoil the experience. I just loved every second of the drive and now really understand why the more serious car journo's rave about it. For me, the decision is made and I would strongly suggest to anyone considering this car, to test drive both.
Appreciate 2
Dackelone10511.00
      02-12-2017, 05:13 PM   #52
Franzino
Captain
Franzino's Avatar
Belgium
860
Rep
923
Posts

Drives: M2 MY17 / Alpine A110 MY19
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Belgium

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomwac View Post
So, BMW Belgium went a long way to arrange a manual for me to test. The DCT car was with all the M Performance goodies + exhaust, while this was a standard equipped car. I went to the test center with no high expectations, but already when I got into the car it felt better: manual seats = lower seating position which suits me much better. Started the car: no droning like with the M Perf exhaust. I'll make the story short: while during the DCT test drive I returned the car after 45min, leaving with the impression that it's a fun little car, but a bit clinical, this time I came back after 1.5h, because I really had to, not because I wanted to. Completely different car, so much more fun. Imo, the M2 is made to be sold with a manual, and this is coming from someone who loves the DCT transmission. But, while in my M4 cab the DCT feels like the 2 are made for each other, the opposite is true for the M2. Rev matching didn't bother me as it's very subtle in comfort mode. In sports mode, the sounds, popping, crackles get very present, the whole car comes alive. Yes, the throw is long and rubbery, sure the clutch pedal has a long travel, but these minuses did not spoil the experience. I just loved every second of the drive and now really understand why the more serious car journo's rave about it. For me, the decision is made and I would strongly suggest to anyone considering this car, to test drive both.
I did not expect that you would change your mind from DCT to manual... Like you can read in this topic; is also tested both M2's (DCT vs Manual) and changed my order from DCT to manual after the test (electric seat and M performance exhaust are items I never considered in buying)... Like you said; only downside is the long pedal travel of the clutch. Was the manual M2 that BMW Belgium provided; a blue one?
__________________
Appreciate 0
      02-12-2017, 05:42 PM   #53
tomwac
First Lieutenant
Belgium
73
Rep
363
Posts

Drives: 545i/520d/320d/S1000R/E24
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Belgium

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Franzino View Post
I did not expect that you would change your mind from DCT to manual... Like you can read in this topic; is also tested both M2's (DCT vs Manual) and changed my order from DCT to manual after the test (electric seat and M performance exhaust are items I never considered in buying)... Like you said; only downside is the long pedal travel of the clutch. Was the manual M2 that BMW Belgium provided; a blue one?
Yes, it was a blue one, press car... as was the DTC car... they also pulled out a brand new white one, for me to see it IRL, as this is the color I want...I must say that the guys in Bornem are extremely helpful...
I also didn't expect that the manual would convince me, but life is full of surprises ... it's just a more natural package for this car, albeit not a popular one when looking at sales numbers...
Appreciate 0
      02-12-2017, 06:40 PM   #54
Franzino
Captain
Franzino's Avatar
Belgium
860
Rep
923
Posts

Drives: M2 MY17 / Alpine A110 MY19
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Belgium

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomwac View Post
Yes, it was a blue one, press car... as was the DTC car... they also pulled out a brand new white one, for me to see it IRL, as this is the color I want...I must say that the guys in Bornem are extremely helpful...
I also didn't expect that the manual would convince me, but life is full of surprises ... it's just a more natural package for this car, albeit not a popular one when looking at sales numbers...
The blue press car is the same as I drove in Bornem...they were also very helpfull to help me make my gearbox decisison. The most popular choice in Belgium is indeed the DCT, I thought it was 75% DCT vs 25% Manual....in the M2...with the M3/M4 there are almost 0 manual cars sold in Benelux.
__________________
Appreciate 1
      02-13-2017, 02:40 AM   #55
Benef1cient
First Lieutenant
Benef1cient's Avatar
Poland
287
Rep
344
Posts

Drives: '18 LBB M2 LCI 6MT
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Poland

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomwac View Post
Myslalem ze Polacy bardziej lubia samochody ... nie kieroj sie tym co inni robia, tylko tym co chcesz ...
You know polish, congrats on knowing one of top 3 hardest languages on Earth
Most of people here buy new M cars for status reasons i think and not because of driving involvement, but that's just my theory.
You're right that I should follow my desires but I'm also a pragmatic that can't test manual anywhere, hence my uncertainties. Maybe I'll call BMW Berlin dealerships as I'm from Poznan which is 270km from Berlin
Appreciate 2
koastal375.50
      02-13-2017, 02:36 PM   #56
tomwac
First Lieutenant
Belgium
73
Rep
363
Posts

Drives: 545i/520d/320d/S1000R/E24
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Belgium

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benef1cient View Post
You know polish, congrats on knowing one of top 3 hardest languages on Earth
Most of people here buy new M cars for status reasons i think and not because of driving involvement, but that's just my theory.
You're right that I should follow my desires but I'm also a pragmatic that can't test manual anywhere, hence my uncertainties. Maybe I'll call BMW Berlin dealerships as I'm from Poznan which is 270km from Berlin
Polish is my mother language, is no big deal
You should definitely drive a manual before signing, as it's much more entertaining but probably not for everyone, especially if you're in doubt...
Appreciate 0
      02-19-2017, 03:41 AM   #57
michaeldorian
Major
United_States
235
Rep
1,125
Posts

Drives: M2 CS
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Currently North Carolina

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomwac View Post
So, BMW Belgium went a long way to arrange a manual for me to test. The DCT car was with all the M Performance goodies + exhaust, while this was a standard equipped car. I went to the test center with no high expectations, but already when I got into the car it felt better: manual seats = lower seating position which suits me much better. Started the car: no droning like with the M Perf exhaust. I'll make the story short: while during the DCT test drive I returned the car after 45min, leaving with the impression that it's a fun little car, but a bit clinical, this time I came back after 1.5h, because I really had to, not because I wanted to. Completely different car, so much more fun. Imo, the M2 is made to be sold with a manual, and this is coming from someone who loves the DCT transmission. But, while in my M4 cab the DCT feels like the 2 are made for each other, the opposite is true for the M2. Rev matching didn't bother me as it's very subtle in comfort mode. In sports mode, the sounds, popping, crackles get very present, the whole car comes alive. Yes, the throw is long and rubbery, sure the clutch pedal has a long travel, but these minuses did not spoil the experience. I just loved every second of the drive and now really understand why the more serious car journo's rave about it. For me, the decision is made and I would strongly suggest to anyone considering this car, to test drive both.
Thanks for posting this. Super helpful review of the 2. I'm also so undecided.
Appreciate 0
      02-19-2017, 04:02 AM   #58
Benef1cient
First Lieutenant
Benef1cient's Avatar
Poland
287
Rep
344
Posts

Drives: '18 LBB M2 LCI 6MT
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Poland

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomwac View Post
Polish is my mother language, is no big deal
You should definitely drive a manual before signing, as it's much more entertaining but probably not for everyone, especially if you're in doubt...
I was thinking about it for the last two weeks.
As much as I like DSG in my GTI i lack interaction so I've decided to go manual in the M2 even without testing it first. I've driven shitty/normal manuals in my previous cars (as we all do in Europe) and this one is gonna be awesome comparing to those for sure.
Driving the GTI for two years leaves me with one conclusion - It's a great all-rounder but it doesn't excel in anything and this time I want a focused car - focused on fun and interaction, even when I'm tired after work or in traffic
I think I finally understand why people love the 1M so much.
I've made too many rational decisions in my life, it's high time to start to listen to my inner self
Appreciate 1
Kid Eh569.50
      02-19-2017, 02:45 PM   #59
tomwac
First Lieutenant
Belgium
73
Rep
363
Posts

Drives: 545i/520d/320d/S1000R/E24
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Belgium

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeldorian View Post
Thanks for posting this. Super helpful review of the 2. I'm also so undecided.
It is a difficult decision... Yesterday, I went for a fast drive in the Ardennes with a buddy with a M4 and having the DCT in my cab was a blast...bang, bang bang, changing gears without even thinking and faster than any human could do, so I even started to second guess my 'manual M2' decision, but after rethinking how fun the manual config was, I'm sticking with it ...
Appreciate 1
Dackelone10511.00
      02-19-2017, 03:53 PM   #60
Franzino
Captain
Franzino's Avatar
Belgium
860
Rep
923
Posts

Drives: M2 MY17 / Alpine A110 MY19
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Belgium

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomwac View Post
It is a difficult decision... Yesterday, I went for a fast drive in the Ardennes with a buddy with a M4 and having the DCT in my cab was a blast...bang, bang bang, changing gears without even thinking and faster than any human could do, so I even started to second guess my 'manual M2' decision, but after rethinking how fun the manual config was, I'm sticking with it ...
It was also a really difficult decision for me...and I also tested both cars. I doubted it almost till the day my M2 was delivered. But in the end I thought that over time a manual gearbox would keep me longer entertained even if it makes the car slower. The manual for me is also more fun and more engaging... something that fits well with the M2. Time will tell if I made the right choice, but for now I'm happy with the manual even with the clutch feeling not being the greatest.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      02-19-2017, 04:47 PM   #61
Artemis
Moderator
Artemis's Avatar
28912
Rep
13,047
Posts

Drives: BMW M2 Competition
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Belgium

iTrader: (0)

Jan 25:
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomwac View Post
A very sensible post, and I agree fully. I don't care what people say about manuals and like I mentioned, it will 99% be the DCT, I just want to experience what the hype is all about...unless Harris and the likes are right and it blows me away, with the info I have, I don't see myself getting the manual.
Feb 12:
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomwac View Post
So, BMW Belgium went a long way to arrange a manual for me to test. The DCT car was with all the M Performance goodies + exhaust, while this was a standard equipped car. I went to the test center with no high expectations, but already when I got into the car it felt better: manual seats = lower seating position which suits me much better. Started the car: no droning like with the M Perf exhaust. I'll make the story short: while during the DCT test drive I returned the car after 45min, leaving with the impression that it's a fun little car, but a bit clinical, this time I came back after 1.5h, because I really had to, not because I wanted to. Completely different car, so much more fun. Imo, the M2 is made to be sold with a manual, and this is coming from someone who loves the DCT transmission. But, while in my M4 cab the DCT feels like the 2 are made for each other, the opposite is true for the M2. Rev matching didn't bother me as it's very subtle in comfort mode. In sports mode, the sounds, popping, crackles get very present, the whole car comes alive. Yes, the throw is long and rubbery, sure the clutch pedal has a long travel, but these minuses did not spoil the experience. I just loved every second of the drive and now really understand why the more serious car journo's rave about it. For me, the decision is made and I would strongly suggest to anyone considering this car, to test drive both.
Ha, now that's a flip-flop.

See also this dedicated thread: http://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1177987 ("M2 transmission: do you prefer manual or double-clutch ?")

Speaking for myself: 6MT was a deliberate choice from day 1 of the M2 ordering process back in October 2015 (and even long before). I had tons of fun with my 1M, so knew that BMW M wouldn't screw up with the M2 6MT. I tried to explain why in an earlier post (see here).

It's very subjective. We cannot make decisions for each other. Decide what you personally like most, likely with the pragmatic restriction how you'll mainly gonna use your car (for example, if you - or your significant other - encounter a lot of commuting traffic with painstakingly long queues, M-DCT may be the more appropriate option).

Anyways, whatever floats your boat, can't go wrong with either gearbox option.

__________________
///M is art Artemis
Appreciate 2
Kid Eh569.50
Dackelone10511.00
      02-20-2017, 04:38 AM   #62
M2 Belgium
Private
27
Rep
57
Posts

Drives: BMW M2
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Belgium

iTrader: (0)

Only test drove the DCT, immediately felt it wasn't for me. I drove an M135i from my mate, the 8 speed ZF gearbox was a lot smoother, and barely any slower to respond.

I'm now at 2000km and don't regret my choice for the manual. A lot more fun at slower speeds. In May the first trackday at Zolder is planned, curious to see what the manual is like there.
Appreciate 0
      02-20-2017, 05:10 AM   #63
M2MG17
First Lieutenant
M2MG17's Avatar
Germany
51
Rep
327
Posts

Drives: M4 GTS
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Miami

iTrader: (0)

I think the M2 and manual tranny is the essence of this car.

This is like BMW's version of the 911R where it's not just about performance but about the purist driving experience and this is as close as you can get to that.

Having said that the GT4 manual transmission is hands down the best manual setup I have ever driven.
Appreciate 0
      02-20-2017, 07:31 AM   #64
DivideBYZero
Never underestimate the Home-Bowl
DivideBYZero's Avatar
United Kingdom
484
Rep
821
Posts

Drives: F87 M2<E92 M3<E46 M3
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: UK

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
After owning an e92 with DCT for 6 years, there are some clear differences in the application used in the M2.

Firstly, in comfort mode it's shift points are comically early in Drive. Turning out of the end of my street has the trans shifting to 2nd at around 10mph and it doesn't get any better. Manual shifts are smooth, but dulled and sometimes late, especially on the down shift, meaning I have grabbed 1st when I wanted 2nd a couple of times, because I'm an impatient sod.

However, in Sport or above, the shifts are much quicker and bang in harder and at my command. No waits or double cog drops due to me calling for the gear again.

This has meant that I exclusively use the manual actuation, rather than using D, which I would use occasionally in the e92, if I were just pottering around town.

Does this mean I would have preferred to have the manual now? Not a chance. A flat out Sunday morning blast confirms that the constant wall or torque and timely, perfect shifts, are sublime when "making progress" down a great B road.

It is different to the E92, and this is primarily because you cannot change the DCT ferocity without changing the driving mode. That's about the only thing I miss.
__________________
2017 F87 M2, MG, M-DCT
2002 E36/7 Z3 2.2 Sport 5MT
2016 F22 M235i Coupe, MW, ZF8
Appreciate 0
      02-20-2017, 07:45 AM   #65
Dackelone
European Editor
Dackelone's Avatar
Germany
10511
Rep
22,992
Posts

Drives: N54 e82
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Bayern, Germany

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomwac View Post
On Sunday I had a test drive with the DCT... Awesome, power is obviously down on my M4, but it's a much more focused car...as if the M4 cab is a very fast cruiser and if you ask it, it will play along on the back roads. The M2 is more of a terrier who is nagging to go the the back roads and gun it. Very enjoyable little car. The only thing which is a huge 'nah' is the interior, just plain 2 series, and the M performance exhaust, which was droning like crazy. Not for everyday use, at least not for me nor for my wife. In 2 weeks I have a test drive scheduled with the manual, so I'm curious, even though I think I will order the DCT anyhow. I just know the auto rev-matching will drive me crazy, but I'm openminded
Personally I would get a M2 manual with the MPE. I drove Artemis's M2 on our Sella 3.0 tour this year... and it was incredible! In fact everyone who drove Luc's car was sold on a M2 manual!!

I really loved the sound from the MPE. It is loud but it has a lot of deep bass to it. Plus keep in mind when you guys test drive a new car... that the exhaust sound will deepen once the car has 10K kms or so on it. That is what I noticed on my 135i with a PE. Perhaps I am prejudiced on the MPE.

Luc also showed me that "hidden" MPE sport mode... where the exhaust will get REALLY loud! It's meant only for race tracks but my GOD it sounds INCREDIBLE!!

The Auto rev matching worked well. And I found that IF you double clutch or even just blip your own throttle on the downshifts... the tcm does not interfere. I don't know why, but no one seems to report on that feature(deactivation) - that it will let YOU the driver do everything(rev matching).

A DCT is nice(and faster) but for me the "only" way to order a M2 would be with the manual transmission. That is how I would take mine.

I consider myself lucky to have Artemis as a friend who let me drive his "baby" in the Alps.

Dackel
Appreciate 3
bim2er223.50
Corinne1171.00
Artemis28911.50
      02-20-2017, 02:17 PM   #66
Artemis
Moderator
Artemis's Avatar
28912
Rep
13,047
Posts

Drives: BMW M2 Competition
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Belgium

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dackelone View Post
I consider myself lucky to have Artemis as a friend who let me drive his "baby" in the Alps.
Dackel
Looking forward to also let you this year row the M2 6MT gears in the twisties.

Name:  SellaTour_2016_RB_09.jpg
Views: 1001
Size:  532.3 KB

Name:  SellaTour_2016_RB_03.jpg
Views: 1036
Size:  718.6 KB
__________________
///M is art Artemis
Appreciate 1
Dackelone10511.00
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:07 AM.




m2
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST