[shaneguags]

Originally Posted by varooshgog

You are probably right. I am neither a materials scientist nor a auto engineer, but I do agree that anything is better than those flimsy pieces of steel that are currently acting as the corner braces.

I know RKP has (or at least had) some corner braces which are made of stainless steel tube. They would technically have a higher youngs modulus than carbon based on a quick google search (~183 GPa vs ~190 GPa), and given their design might be "more compliant" for cornering and bumps. Again, this is all heresay on my part, and I might end up cancelling my order for the CPM braces to try something else given what you shared F87source.

I also just realized we had a huge side discussion in shaneguags thread. So, for sake of clarity, if you plan on keeping the M2 for a while and therefore don't care about the resale value as much, I would say the M2C carbon bracing is the best as it looks the most OEM and obviously has been tested by BMW engineers, with the caveat that it requires a lot of parts + some modification and will generally cost you more than $1K (if you do labor yourself).

If you want an easier set of mods (which are both cheaper and is likely equivalent OR better than the M2C carbon bracing) I would recommend getting the aFe Control Strut brace + some corner bracing (like the Turner pieces). These also have the added benefit of being entirely reversible for sale down the road unlike the M2C carbon bracing (from my knowledge).

**Note: For the aFe Strut Brace, you may not be able to use the stock engine cover. I [...]

I was looking into the OEM carbon bracing but idk if I can justify spending north to $1k on a brace. I rather just do the aFe one at that point. I probably will ditch the cover too since I’ll be a pain in the ass for engine installs.

[shaneguags]

Originally Posted by TargaM2

The M2CSR front bar is supposedly made by H&R & is identical to the aftermarket bars by H&R & Whiteline.
All 3 are a 30mm solid bar with 3 point adjustment on the blade.
Oddly the Genuine M2CSR bar is the cheapest (Turner/ECS have them new).

damn I never knew that. they prob all the same then

[shaneguags]

Originally Posted by F87source

Actually, those young's modulus ratings were based off of generic carbon fiber, there are many different variants of carbon based on the weave they have (I discussed all of this on my main review) but the TMS braces have 6k 5HS carbon weave for it's core, with a 2x2 weave on the exterior for aesthetics. This has a much higher young's modulus than titanium or even chromoly steel (known as the strongest grade of steel). So even the rkp brace shouldn't be as stiff as these TMS braces.


1) 6k 5HS carbon fiber:
The source for this data is a carbon supplier:https://www.fibreglast.com/product/6...rbon_fiber_all

Tensile strength: 610 - 700 KSI (which is Kilopound per square inch) = 4,205.8 Mpa - 4,826.33 Mpa
Tensile Modulous (Young's Modulus or rigidity): 33.6 - 34.9 MSI (million pounds per square inch) = 231.66384504 Gpa - 240.62702953 Gpa

2) Grade 5 titanium (Ti6Al4V which is the most commonly used titanium in industry):
The source for this data is from AZO materials: https://www.azom.com/properties.aspx?ArticleID=1547

Tensile strength: 862 - 1,200 MPa
Tensile Modulous (Young's Modulus or rigidity): 110 - 119 GPa

3) Chromoly steel
The source for this data is from: https://material-properties.org/chro...melting-point/

Ultimate tensile strength: 700 MPa
Tensile Modulous (Young's Modulus or rigidity): 205 GPa

4) Stainless steel grade 304 (a pretty common stainless steel that is both very corrosion resistant and strong):
The source for this data is from Azo material: https://www.azom.com/properties.aspx?ArticleID=965

Tensile strength: 510 - 620 [...]

you really think the side carbon brace really make that much of a difference ? I feel like it’s just for aesthetics

[F87source]

Originally Posted by shaneguags

you really think the side carbon brace really make that much of a difference ? I feel like it’s just for aesthetics

Yes I do think it makes a difference. I did detail why it would tighten the chassis in my review as well.

But in short, it ties down the strut tower both in xy axis movement as well as the z axis movement. It also strengths the wheel house as well, which is where alot of chassis components are bolted too.


So you do feel it on harder cornering.

[varooshgog]

Originally Posted by F87source

Yes I do think it makes a difference. I did detail why it would tighten the chassis in my review as well.

But in short, it ties down the strut tower both in xy axis movement as well as the z axis movement. It also strengths the wheel house as well, which is where alot of chassis components are bolted too.


So you do feel it on harder cornering.

Thanks for the detailed breakdown F87source. Again, as I mentioned, I am neither a materials scientists nor an auto engineer, so I will 100% take the input of someone who has CLEARLY spent more time researching and looking into the material choices than I have (I just tried using logic of seemingly thicker metal + additional points of reinforcement = better...not the best logic, but usually works in most cases :P ).

Anyways shaneguags , I do think the strut brace and the corner braces together would provide a significant improvement during cornering/hard driving, and would yield some benefits for day-to-day in regards to chassis undulation when handling road bumps. If you are tight on budget, for sure get the aFe brace first since I feel like that is a better value proposition vs. the corner braces (also on sale right now it seems).

If you still decide to look into the M2C Carbon brace retrofit, here is the thread on it: https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1363860 The costs in there are probably higher than what it costs today, but I believe the main parts would still put you near the $1K mark

[F87source]

Originally Posted by varooshgog

Thanks for the detailed breakdown F87source. Again, as I mentioned, I am neither a materials scientists nor an auto engineer, so I will 100% take the input of someone who has CLEARLY spent more time researching and looking into the material choices than I have (I just tried using logic of seemingly thicker metal + additional points of reinforcement = better...not the best logic, but usually works in most cases :P ).

Anyways shaneguags , I do think the strut brace and the corner braces together would provide a significant improvement during cornering/hard driving, and would yield some benefits for day-to-day in regards to chassis undulation when handling road bumps. If you are tight on budget, for sure get the aFe brace first since I feel like that is a better value proposition vs. the corner braces (also on sale right now it seems).

If you still decide to look into the M2C Carbon brace retrofit, here is the thread on it: https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1363860 The costs in there are probably higher than what it costs today, but I believe the main parts would still put you near the $1K mark

No problem.

Well at some point thickness would help over come material differences, but likely not in this case because it's not that much thicker (if it is even thicker at all) vs. the TMS braces. and with the 3x rigidity difference between the 6k 5HS carbon vs. the aluminium, and the TMS braces being tubular, there is almost 0 chance that the aluminium braces come close in terms of rigidity.


If you want the TMS braces, I would wait for a sale, generally they are on sale for around $500 or so, I can't remember.

[shaneguags]

Originally Posted by varooshgog

Thanks for the detailed breakdown F87source. Again, as I mentioned, I am neither a materials scientists nor an auto engineer, so I will 100% take the input of someone who has CLEARLY spent more time researching and looking into the material choices than I have (I just tried using logic of seemingly thicker metal + additional points of reinforcement = better...not the best logic, but usually works in most cases :P ).

Anyways shaneguags , I do think the strut brace and the corner braces together would provide a significant improvement during cornering/hard driving, and would yield some benefits for day-to-day in regards to chassis undulation when handling road bumps. If you are tight on budget, for sure get the aFe brace first since I feel like that is a better value proposition vs. the corner braces (also on sale right now it seems).

If you still decide to look into the M2C Carbon brace retrofit, here is the thread on it: https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1363860 The costs in there are probably higher than what it costs today, but I believe the main parts would still put you near the $1K mark

I plan on adding the stuff when I start my track build. but that’ll prob not be for awhile. when I’m done with the performance and aethetics, my plan was to focus on the handling. defintely gonna put the strut brace and side braces next on the list

[shaneguags]

Originally Posted by F87source

No problem.

Well at some point thickness would help over come material differences, but likely not in this case because it's not that much thicker (if it is even thicker at all) vs. the TMS braces. and with the 3x rigidity difference between the 6k 5HS carbon vs. the aluminium, and the TMS braces being tubular, there is almost 0 chance that the aluminium braces come close in terms of rigidity.


If you want the TMS braces, I would wait for a sale, generally they are on sale for around $500 or so, I can't remember.

I’ll probably be ready to buy them next Black Friday

[F87source]

Originally Posted by shaneguags

I’ll probably be ready to buy them next Black Friday

Good call to get it when its cheapest.

[shaneguags]

Originally Posted by F87source

Good call to get it when its cheapest.

I pretty much got all the exterior stuff this past Black Friday and the year before that, I did a lot of performance. I also been getting very lucky on bimmerpost too !

[MannyM5]

I went with the Ultra racing strut bar. Simple, effective, and only $220. Turner/ECS has it. I may upgrade the corner braces eventually to the Turner Carbon ones, but for now I am happy with the ultra bar.
I’ll be running a square wheel/tire setup on track next season. If the balance feels off with too much oversteer, my next mod will be the m2csr front sway bar.

[shaneguags]

Just found these on an M2 made by CPM Chassis Tuning. What do you guys think about this design ? Price is steep though, around $700 for the fromt strut brace and $165 for the front member brace

[varooshgog]

Originally Posted by shaneguags

Just found these on an M2 made by CPM Chassis Tuning. What do you guys think about this design ? Would this be better than aFe’s top bar strut design ? It looks pretty solid but would run me $700 ($400+ more than aFe)

Hey shaneguags, this is the other corner brace I mentioned ordering previously (now cancelled). Per F87source's research, these are aluminum corner braces which are likely not as good as the steel RKP corner braces or the CF Turner corner braces due to the material choice.

The aFe is a Strut brace (which is a bit different and mounts to the strut towers rather than the corner mounts). The strut brace in combination would a corner brace (either the RKP or ideally the Turner Corner brace) would yield the best handling results.

[shaneguags]

Originally Posted by varooshgog

Hey shaneguags, this is the other corner brace I mentioned ordering previously (now cancelled). Per F87source's research, these are aluminum corner braces which are likely not as good as the steel RKP corner braces or the CF Turner corner braces due to the material choice.

The aFe is a Strut brace (which is a bit different and mounts to the strut towers rather than the corner mounts). The strut brace in combination would a corner brace (either the RKP or ideally the Turner Corner brace) would yield the best handling results.

gotcha, that’s what I figured. I think I’m going to order the aFe brace today

[F87source]

Originally Posted by varooshgog

Hey shaneguags, this is the other corner brace I mentioned ordering previously (now cancelled). Per F87source's research, these are aluminum corner braces which are likely not as good as the steel RKP corner braces or the CF Turner corner braces due to the material choice.

The aFe is a Strut brace (which is a bit different and mounts to the strut towers rather than the corner mounts). The strut brace in combination would a corner brace (either the RKP or ideally the Turner Corner brace) would yield the best handling results.

Correct, although cpm's brace looks very good and undoubtedly has fantastic build quality, aluminum is just not as rigid as carbon fiber or steel, so it wouldn't perform as good, especially since it isn't tubular in design either - meaning it isn't going to be able to resist forces in all axis to the same extent.

[shaneguags]

Originally Posted by F87source

Correct, although cpm's brace looks very good and undoubtedly has fantastic build quality, aluminum is just not as rigid as carbon fiber or steel, so it wouldn't perform as good, especially since it isn't tubular in design either - meaning it isn't going to be able to resist forces in all axis to the same extent.

what do you think about the NRW carbon corner braces in comparison to the Turner ones ? https://mashimarho.com/products/nrw-...ce-f2x-f3x-f87

[shaneguags]

Originally Posted by F87source

Correct, although cpm's brace looks very good and undoubtedly has fantastic build quality, aluminum is just not as rigid as carbon fiber or steel, so it wouldn't perform as good, especially since it isn't tubular in design either - meaning it isn't going to be able to resist forces in all axis to the same extent.

Also, are there even any steel ones besides the RKP ones ? because I’m not dropping $1k on corner braces lol

[F87source]

Originally Posted by shaneguags

what do you think about the NRW carbon corner braces in comparison to the Turner ones ? https://mashimarho.com/products/nrw-...ce-f2x-f3x-f87

No clue, I don't know what kind of weave and twill they're using, all they say is grand master twill which iirc means very large weave.

I know they use an insert which is good for increasing rigidity, but I don't know if their design is tubular or completely flat (it looks to be very thin). But since they heavily emphasize it being very light (even lighter than stock which is insanely light, as the stock braces a tiny pieces of stamped steel and weigh almost nothing) I hesitate to believe it's stronger or more rigid than the TMS braces. But I can't conclude anything as I don't know much about these braces, all I do know is turner tested their braces extensively and it never ever failed, and they put immense research and r&d into their braces as well.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by shaneguags

Also, are there even any steel ones besides the RKP ones ? because I’m not dropping $1k on corner braces lol

I don't think so. Most are aluminum or carbon

[shaneguags]

Originally Posted by F87source

No clue, I don't know what kind of weave and twill they're using, all they say is grand master twill which iirc means very large weave.

I know they use an insert which is good for increasing rigidity, but I don't know if their design is tubular or completely flat (it looks to be very thin). But since they heavily emphasize it being very light (even lighter than stock which is insanely light, as the stock braces a tiny pieces of stamped steel and weigh almost nothing) I hesitate to believe it's stronger or more rigid than the TMS braces. But I can't conclude anything as I don't know much about these braces, all I do know is turner tested their braces extensively and it never ever failed, and they put immense research and r&d into their braces as well.

the braces I sent seem to have just come out. I know M2ghost (Matt) was using them as a prototype for awhile until released. Matt said they were very solid and he’s actually selling his so I’m pretty interested in maybe pair them with the aFe strut

[shaneguags]

Originally Posted by F87source

I don't think so. Most are aluminum or carbon

yea I find that very strange considering it’s a bracing part. Usually you want something strong.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by shaneguags

the braces I sent seem to have just come out. I know M2ghost (Matt) was using them as a prototype for awhile until released. Matt said they were very solid and he’s actually selling his so I’m pretty interested in maybe pair them with the aFe strut

Yeah I have no idea, I've never really seen them before. But again I don't think they're going to be as the TMS braces, because if you're focused on weight and all materials are equal, then the heavier object will be stronger as there is more material.