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      05-24-2020, 09:07 AM   #1
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Question The Wagner EVO2 Performance intercooler for the BMW F-series will no longer be produc

Anyone know why they are discontinuing Wagner EVO2 Performance intercooler or if they will have a replacement?

The Wagner EVO2 Performance intercooler for the BMW F-series will no longer be produced in the future!
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      05-24-2020, 10:24 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ALO_21 View Post
Anyone know why they are discontinuing Wagner EVO2 Performance intercooler or if they will have a replacement?

The Wagner EVO2 Performance intercooler for the BMW F-series will no longer be produced in the future!
I’m guessing bc they didn’t sell many of the Evo2 Performance. Generally, if someone is going Evo2 they get the Evo2 Competition.
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      05-24-2020, 03:28 PM   #3
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I'd say because it was a bit over priced for its performance (CSF is only $599 and out performs this by miles) and alot of Chinese clones at a fraction of the price offered similar if not identical performance.
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      05-24-2020, 03:54 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by F87source View Post
I'd say because it was a bit over priced for its performance (CSF is only $599 and out performs this by miles) and alot of Chinese clones at a fraction of the price offered similar if not identical performance.
Yeah. I have been going back and forth between the two and I guess this makes it easier. I live in Germany there wasn't a price difference for me. I guess I will be ordering the CSF.
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      05-24-2020, 04:16 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by ALO_21 View Post
Yeah. I have been going back and forth between the two and I guess this makes it easier. I live in Germany there wasn't a price difference for me. I guess I will be ordering the CSF.
I see, yeah the CSF performs much better than the performance model from wagner.
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      05-25-2020, 01:23 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ALO_21 View Post
Yeah. I have been going back and forth between the two and I guess this makes it easier. I live in Germany there wasn't a price difference for me. I guess I will be ordering the CSF.
I just did an complete breakdown of the COMP vs other ICs. I don't know how the Comp sells more than the Performance.
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      05-25-2020, 03:39 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by AmuroRay View Post
I just did an complete breakdown of the COMP vs other ICs. I don't know how the Comp sells more than the Performance.
Are you saying that the Wagner Evo 2 Comp isn't a good option? I'm looking for a good intercooler for a stage 2 setup with minimal lag.
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      05-25-2020, 09:38 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squixs View Post
Are you saying that the Wagner Evo 2 Comp isn't a good option? I'm looking for a good intercooler for a stage 2 setup with minimal lag.
If you don’t track the car, they are all going to perform about the same on the street. But the Wagner’s claimed benefits aren’t really based in fact, and higher price tag mean I would look elsewhere.
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      05-26-2020, 11:53 AM   #9
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Their Competition line is their best seller, it also performs better than the performance for all applications.

I think Wagner should only offer tube and fin intercoolers going forward.
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      05-26-2020, 12:36 PM   #10
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I went for the evo 2 comp bit was surprised in the extra cost of tube/fin vs the performance bar/plate. Everything I've read seems to suggest tube and fin is cheaper to produce.
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      05-26-2020, 01:31 PM   #11
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I had a track day last Saturday with Wagner stage 1 comp and I was really surprised how the temps can drop so fast between pulls/straights.

My engine is fully stock expect afe air filter.

Ultimately a similar size bar and plate can absorb more heat but I think the tube and fin is the winner for avoiding heat soaking and dissipate heat between sessions.

Depends on usage, on my M235i I dragged race a huge bar and plate was ideal.
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      05-26-2020, 02:04 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PackPride85 View Post
I went for the evo 2 comp bit was surprised in the extra cost of tube/fin vs the performance bar/plate. Everything I've read seems to suggest tube and fin is cheaper to produce.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PLF69 View Post
I had a track day last Saturday with Wagner stage 1 comp and I was really surprised how the temps can drop so fast between pulls/straights.

My engine is fully stock expect afe air filter.

Ultimately a similar size bar and plate can absorb more heat but I think the tube and fin is the winner for avoiding heat soaking and dissipate heat between sessions.

Depends on usage, on my M235i I dragged race a huge bar and plate was ideal.

Because it is cheaper to produce, and it's part of the reason the stock intercooler is Tube and Fin.

But what isn't true, is the Competition outperforming the Performance model. This is per information from Wagner themselves, test's conducted (2nd party) by Wagner, and the Competition's performance against other Bar and Plate style intercoolers.

You can see that information here:
https://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31479

What's also false is that the EVO competition series cools quicker than stock -

https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...16&postcount=3

You'll note that the Evo 1 was barely adequate for one multi gear pull, before overheating. You'll also note it cools at the same exact rate the OEM intercooler cools at.

Wagner's claim that the tube and fin inter coolers "cool down quicker" than bar and plate is patently false. Mass has no effect on thermal transfer - two similar materials will heat and cool at the same rate.

This is PHYSICS.

Note Wagner does not publish or provide a comparison between the B&P vs T&F cool down - nor could I find ANY evidence to support such a claim. (again, one doesn't exist)

Tube and Fin inter coolers are inherently inferior because they have less total thermal capacity, and ultimately hold less heat. This means average temperatures will always be higher on a T&F unit of the same size compared to a B&P.
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Last edited by AmuroRay; 05-26-2020 at 02:26 PM..
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      05-26-2020, 02:37 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AmuroRay View Post
Because it is cheaper to produce, and it's part of the reason the stock intercooler is Tube and Fin.

But what isn't true, is the Competition outperforming the Performance model. This is per information from Wagner themselves, test's conducted (2nd party) by Wagner, and the Competition's performance against other Bar and Plate style intercoolers.

You can see that information here:
https://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31479

What's also false is that the EVO competition series cools quicker than stock -

https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...16&postcount=3

You'll note that the Evo 1 was barely adequate for one multi gear pull, before overheating. You'll also note it cools at the same exact rate the OEM intercooler cools at.

Wagner's claim that the tube and fin inter coolers "cool down quicker" than bar and plate is patently false. Mass has no effect on thermal transfer - two similar materials will heat and cool at the same rate.

This is PHYSICS.

Note Wagner does not publish or provide a comparison between the B&P vs T&F cool down - nor could I find ANY evidence to support such a claim. (again, one doesn't exist)

Tube and Fin inter coolers are inherently inferior because they have less total thermal capacity, and ultimately hold less heat. This means average temperatures will always be higher on a T&F unit of the same size compared to a B&P.

Mass does have an effect on heat transfer. It's called Volumetric Heat Capacity or "Thermal Inertia". Their claim is correct just by the fact that the tube and fin intercooler has less mass than the bar and plate. Is it noticeable in most conditions? Probably not.

I'm not sure how much faith I would put in car testing where you can't really emulate the same conditions every time. If you want an accurate test it should be done in controlled conditions in a lab.
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      05-26-2020, 02:47 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PackPride85 View Post
Mass does have an effect on heat transfer. It's called Volumetric Heat Capacity or "Thermal Inertia". Their claim is correct just by the fact that the tube and fin intercooler has less mass than the bar and plate. Is it noticeable in most conditions? Probably not.

I'm not sure how much faith I would put in car testing where you can't really emulate the same conditions every time. If you want an accurate test it should be done in controlled conditions in a lab.
I had a feeling someone would argue thermal inertia - but that doesn’t apply for materials of the same type, and is absolutely not true in the case of these intercoolers.

iE a 1kg block of iron will heat up quicker than 5kg of Steel.

If there is one block that’s 2kg and another that is 5kg, they will heat and cool at the same rate, however because the 5kg block carries more heat, it will take longer to reach Equilibrium.

https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1518971

Quote:
I was quite surprised at the ATM vs Wagner results when I reviewed the data. I realized after that, that the whole "tube & fin recovers significantly faster" was just marketing speak.
Note the Wagner did no cool down any faster than the Bar and Plate intercooler, despite having less mass to cool.
Wagner repackaged a disadvantage as an advantage.

Last edited by AmuroRay; 05-26-2020 at 02:52 PM..
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      05-26-2020, 02:51 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AmuroRay View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by PackPride85 View Post
Mass does have an effect on heat transfer. It's called Volumetric Heat Capacity or "Thermal Inertia". Their claim is correct just by the fact that the tube and fin intercooler has less mass than the bar and plate. Is it noticeable in most conditions? Probably not.

I'm not sure how much faith I would put in car testing where you can't really emulate the same conditions every time. If you want an accurate test it should be done in controlled conditions in a lab.
I had a feeling someone would argue thermal inertia - but that doesn’t apply for materials of the same type, and is absolutely not true in the case of these intercoolers.

https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1518971

Quote:
I was quite surprised at the ATM vs Wagner results when I reviewed the data. I realized after that, that the whole "tube & fin recovers significantly faster" was just marketing speak.
Note the Wagner did no cool down any faster than the Bar and Plate intercooler, despite having less mass to cool.
Wagner repackaged a disadvantage as an advantage.
Volumetric heat capacity is the heat capacity of the material divided by the volume. So yes size does matter lol.
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      05-26-2020, 02:53 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PackPride85 View Post
Volumetric heat capacity is the heat capacity of the material divided by the volume. So yes size does matter lol.
Read my revised post - you are correct.
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