[F87source]

Originally Posted by mr_lab_rat

I got a different brand clutch stop and had to go to a minimum thickness (about 5mm) otherwise I had difficulties to shift from 1st to 2nd.

Wait 5mm in total for your clutch stop? That's almost nothing vs. stock. I have something like 1-1.5cm with two washers on the bms clutch stop.

Have you checked your shift linkage, transmission fluid and if your clutch pedal is bled well?

Also try to put your car in 1st gear and slowly lift the clutch pedal with a but of extra throttle to see when it starts to creep to determine amount of dead space. If there is another of dead space before it starts to creep even with extra throttle it is imo definitely not the clutch stops fault and you may have other issues with your transmission.

[mr_lab_rat]

Originally Posted by F87source

Wait 5mm in total for your clutch stop? That's almost nothing vs. stock. I have something like 1-1.5cm with two washers on the bms clutch stop.

Have you checked your shift linkage, transmission fluid and if your clutch pedal is bled well?

Also try to put your car in 1st gear and slowly lift the clutch pedal with a but of extra throttle to see when it starts to creep to determine amount of dead space. If there is another of dead space before it starts to creep even with extra throttle it is imo definitely not the clutch stops fault and you may have other issues with your transmission.

The clutch stop can do anything between 5 to 15mm. When I release the clutch I feel it grabbing significantly higher than that but when I tried the clutch stop at 10mm the shifts from 1st to 2nd became more difficult and caused me to miss a shift couple of times.
The car is only 1 year old with low mileage but I'll take a look at all the components.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by mr_lab_rat

The clutch stop can do anything between 5 to 15mm. When I release the clutch I feel it grabbing significantly higher than that but when I tried the clutch stop at 10mm the shifts from 1st to 2nd became more difficult and caused me to miss a shift couple of times.
The car is only 1 year old with low mileage but I'll take a look at all the components.

yeah I know it does alot compared to stock, but alot of people are running 3 spacers with the bms clutch stop without issues, so it is very little in comparison.

Have you tested the clutch lift method with the clutch stop in place? Even with two spacers on level ground and additional gas my car still needs me to lift the clutch pedal a fair bit (albeit significantly less than stock) before it will creep.

[veggie]

I'm thinking about getting the bms clutch stop, but after reading everyone's experience I'm a little worried about the long term effects. For everyone who's had it for 1.5-2 years, have you had any issues? If not, how many spacers are you using?

[F87source]

Originally Posted by veggie

I'm thinking about getting the bms clutch stop, but after reading everyone's experience I'm a little worried about the long term effects. For everyone who's had it for 1.5-2 years, have you had any issues? If not, how many spacers are you using?

I'm at the two year mark and zero issues, nothing concerning me when I drive around vs. stock. Much better clutch throw, as stock was way too long that I never even bottomed out the clutch when it was stock.

If you follow my testing procedure a few posts prior imo I think that's the most comprehensive way to make sure the clutch is fully disengaged when the clutch stop is in place. with two stoppers I noticed I still have maybe a cm or more of clutch release before the car starts to creep forward.

[arquitecto]

Originally Posted by veggie

I'm thinking about getting the bms clutch stop, but after reading everyone's experience I'm a little worried about the long term effects. For everyone who's had it for 1.5-2 years, have you had any issues? If not, how many spacers are you using?

I’ve had mine on for over a year, installed immediately upon delivery of the car while it was still at the Performance Center in SC.

All three shims, zero issues and still able to disengage clutch fully.

Don’t overthink it, takes 30 seconds to install and is easily reversible if you don’t like it.

[veggie]

Thanks F87source & arquitecto. Do you guys track? I wonder if the issues people are reporting are due to driving behavior rather than the clutch stop itself. I don't plan to track in the near future, only planning to drive normally, so I hope it'll be fine.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by veggie

Thanks F87source & arquitecto. Do you guys track? I wonder if the issues people are reporting are due to driving behavior rather than the clutch stop itself. I don't plan to track in the near future, only planning to drive normally, so I hope it'll be fine.

You're welcome!
I haven't tracked the m2 yet, but I've done alot of lapping with my 6mt m235i and clutch stop w/o issue.

[DarthFader]

I've had the BMS clutch stop in my M2 for 6500 miles so far without issue.

I had the same clutch stop in my previous 135i for 3 years/45k miles without issue.

2.5 shims

[Dabozo]

2+ years no issues.

[Sideshow]

I'm going to try it on my M2 when I collect it in the middle of January. What I don't understand is the stop is still past the point of engagement, what's the point? Are people just pushing it to the floor then they switch gears? If that's the case I guess I see it. I can't remember the last time I put the clutch to the floor on my E92.

I'll try it and see.

[Mr 2]

Agree, really odd how these cars behave so differently between individual cars. I had same issue, started with 2 BMS washers, was great at first. Over the year I noticed that second was sometimes hard to get into gear. Went back to stock and second second is noticeable smoother engagement. Sucks it didn't work for me, I liked the pedal feel but the second gear engagement stated getting really annoying.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by Mr 2

Agree, really odd how these cars behave so differently between individual cars. I had same issue, started with 2 BMS washers, was great at first. Over the year I noticed that second was sometimes hard to get into gear. Went back to stock and second second is noticeable smoother engagement. Sucks it didn't work for me, I liked the pedal feel but the second gear engagement stated getting really annoying.

Yeah I'm going to try it out this summer and report back. I lost the stock clutch stop though so that's unfortunate...

[veggie]

Originally Posted by Mr 2

Agree, really odd how these cars behave so differently between individual cars. I had same issue, started with 2 BMS washers, was great at first. Over the year I noticed that second was sometimes hard to get into gear. Went back to stock and second second is noticeable smoother engagement. Sucks it didn't work for me, I liked the pedal feel but the second gear engagement stated getting really annoying.

I've been using the clutch stop for almost 5 months now. About 2 months in I've noticed going into second was a little hard, so I removed it but it still felt a little rougher than when I first bought the car. I put the clutch stop back and I've been using it since. I did notice when I'm fully stopped it's easy to go into 2nd, but when I'm driving that's when it's rougher. Maybe I'm being paranoid, but I'm not sure if too much damage has already been done and if I should remove it again. Suggestions?

[F87source]

Originally Posted by veggie

I've been using the clutch stop for almost 5 months now. About 2 months in I've noticed going into second was a little hard, so I removed it but it still felt a little rougher than when I first bought the car. I put the clutch stop back and I've been using it since. I did notice when I'm fully stopped it's easy to go into 2nd, but when I'm driving that's when it's rougher. Maybe I'm being paranoid, but I'm not sure if too much damage has already been done and if I should remove it again. Suggestions?

When you're moving there is load in the transmission so that's why it feels harder to shift vs. when stopped. The rougher overtime is probably general wear and tear etc. What I noticed is that i'm getting a bit more shifter play compared to when it was brand new.

You could try running without the clutch stop for awhile and see what happens, but I personally can't stand it without the clutch stop. IIRC 1st to 2nd was still hard even before I had the clutch stop, so I think that's how the transmission is.

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by veggie

I've been using the clutch stop for almost 5 months now. About 2 months in I've noticed going into second was a little hard, so I removed it but it still felt a little rougher than when I first bought the car. I put the clutch stop back and I've been using it since. I did notice when I'm fully stopped it's easy to go into 2nd, but when I'm driving that's when it's rougher. Maybe I'm being paranoid, but I'm not sure if too much damage has already been done and if I should remove it again. Suggestions?

If it hinders the pedal from properly disengaging the clutch, as it was designed to do, I say remove it.

The distance of pedal travel was already factored in when it was engineered and is even monitored by an electronic sensor. When you change play, by blocking it with a physical washer, you're not allowing the clutch to release properly.

I can't believe so many folks here are ok with this, when logically the results are long term gear grind, mid-shifting, and possible damage to the synchronizers..

I each is own, I guess :

[veggie]

Originally Posted by Poochie

If it hinders the pedal from properly disengaging the clutch, as it was designed to do, I say remove it.

The distance of pedal travel was already factored in when it was engineered and is even monitored by an electronic sensor. When you change play, by blocking it with a physical washer, you're not allowing the clutch to release properly.

I can't believe so many folks here are ok with this, when logically the results are long term gear grind, mid-shifting, and possible damage to the synchronizers..

I each is own, I guess :

Is there a difference between having the clutch installed vs people shifting without stepping down all the way? I'm curious because it seems like a lot of people shift without stepping down all the way. Does anyone have issues who are doing that?

I'll probably remove it and give it a try for a few weeks. If I don't see an improvement I might have to bring it in for an inspection.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by Poochie

If it hinders the pedal from properly disengaging the clutch, as it was designed to do, I say remove it.

The distance of pedal travel was already factored in when it was engineered and is even monitored by an electronic sensor. When you change play, by blocking it with a physical washer, you're not allowing the clutch to release properly.

I can't believe so many folks here are ok with this, when logically the results are long term gear grind, mid-shifting, and possible damage to the synchronizers..

I each is own, I guess :

I doubt BMW actually exact took pedal travel into account when designing the clutch system. That would make it difficult for right hand drive cars vs. left hand drive cars and varying levels of clutch wear and after market clutches.... They likely just designed it so there was enough travel for the clutch to disengage before the pedal hits the floor, there's no way it has to be exactly at the floor allowing room for a dead spot that a clutch stop eliminates.

Your computer argument doesn't make sense either, because the car still starts when the clutch stop is in, meaning the pedal has been depressed far enough for the sensor to allow the car to start without moving. So by your own argument if BMW took into account exact pedal positions they should have made the clutch pedal sensor only engage and allow starting if the clutch was fully disengaged for safety reasons. Thus if the car starts with a clutch stop then that means the clutch should be fully disengaged... Plus you are not block any sensors with a clutch stop, you just don't allow the pedal to hit the floor. Proof the clutch h engagement sensor still works is the car will not start unless the clutch is pressed past a certain point...

People are ok with this because they know there's a physical dead spot, it wouldn't make sense if there wasn't because you can feel when the clutch engaged and that's way at the top of the pedal travel. I've tested this by putting the car in 1st on a level surface releasing the clutch with a clutch stop in play (2 washers) and reving the absolute piss out of it to see when it will creep forward. Even with the clutch stop there was a good few cm's of dead space before any remote creeping was in play. The next test this summer will be on axle stands to remove all the load and allow the wheels to spin even easier to test.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by veggie

Is there a difference between having the clutch installed vs people shifting without stepping down all the way? I'm curious because it seems like a lot of people shift without stepping down all the way. Does anyone have issues who are doing that?

I'll probably remove it and give it a try for a few weeks. If I don't see an improvement I might have to bring it in for an inspection.

No the clutch stop does the exact same thing as not fully bottoming out the pedal when you shift. BMW even has a factory clutch stop in place, but it's a super thin rubber piece.

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by F87source

I doubt BMW actually exact took pedal travel into account when designing the clutch system. That would make it difficult for right hand drive cars vs. left hand drive cars and varying levels of clutch wear and after market clutches.... They likely just designed it so there was enough travel for the clutch to disengage before the pedal hits the floor, there's no way it has to be exactly at the floor allowing room for a dead spot that a clutch stop eliminates.

Your computer argument doesn't make sense either, because the car still starts when the clutch stop is in, meaning the pedal has been depressed far enough for the sensor to allow the car to start without moving. So by your own argument if BMW took into account exact pedal positions they should have made the clutch pedal sensor only engage and allow starting if the clutch was fully disengaged for safety reasons. Thus if the car starts with a clutch stop then that means the clutch should be fully disengaged... Plus you are not block any sensors with a clutch stop, you just don't allow the pedal to hit the floor. Proof the clutch h engagement sensor still works is the car will not start unless the clutch is pressed past a certain point...

People are ok with this because they know there's a physical dead spot, it wouldn't make sense if there wasn't because you can feel when the clutch engaged and that's way at the top of the pedal travel. I've tested this by putting the car in 1st on a level surface releasing the clutch with a clutch stop in play (2 washers) and reving the absolute piss out of it to see when it will creep forward. Even with the clutch stop there was a good few cm's of dead space before any remote creeping was in play. The next test this summer will be on axle stands to remove all the load and allow the wheels to spin even easier to test.

If what you're saying is true, explain to me why there are so many cases of hard shifting and gear grind?

There might be some play in travel from end of the pedal before it's considered fully engaged but it seems asinine to physically block out the linkage with some aftermarket washer, when there have been confirmed cases of shifting issues with this product and also when a part of vehicle's inherent lag is related to computer.

But like I said; to each is own - and yet another reminder why I would avoid ever buying a used, manual "boy racer" vehicle.

May God be with your synchros #RIP 👏🏻😇

[F87source]

Originally Posted by Poochie

If what you're saying is true, explain to me why there are so many cases of hard shifting and gear grind?

There might be some play in travel from end of the pedal before it's considered fully engaged but it seems asinine to physically block out the linkage with some aftermarket washer, when there have been confirmed cases of shifting issues with this product and also when a part of vehicle's inherent lag is related to computer.

But like I said; to each is own - and yet another reminder why I would avoid ever buying a used, manual "boy racer" vehicle.

May God be with your synchros #RIP ������

It could be a bad clutch fluid bleed, cold transmission fluid, etc. Stock cars still grind and have hard shifts so your conclusion doesn't make a difference. I've owned so many manual cars that had shifting issues like this it's not even a shock for me. The evo X I had was by far the worse, and the only solution was the red line transmission fluid cocktail and a weighted titanium shift knob.

There is no linkage, it's a hydraulic clutch so all your doing is raising the clutch bottoming point. you're technically not blocking anything, you're just increasing the thickness of the factory clutch stop which the clutch pedal arm rests on when bottomed out. Why don't you look at some images of how the whole clutch pedal assembly before you start running to conclusions. The factory clutch stop is like 3mm thick the newer one is thicker which emulates the bottom out position being higher, which in effect is like not pressing the clutch all the way down. Like I said before there are reports of the cars having shifting issues bone stock as well, so blaming it all on the clutch stop is a statistical sampling bias.


100% agreed on your point of not buying a used car.


No need to worry about my synchros, I had a manual m235i that was time attacked with 550whp and 3 shims on the clutch stop without issues. Plus I've done actual testing on my end to make sure to the best of my ability the clutch is actually engaged, and am not an internet keyboard speculation warrior. When the clutch needs replacing I'll pull the transmission off to try and see if the throw out bearing has fully disengaged the clutch with a clutch stop in place. If anything the clutch stop has made the shifting smoother in all other gears, except the occasional 1-2 rough shift which also occured stock.

[F87source]

But I should add this -

There is a chance that I could be wrong and the clutch isn't fully engaged, that is a legit possibility. But there is a chance that I could be right and it is fully disengaged, there is no way to know for sure unless the transmission is pulled, which isn't likely as the number of high mile m2's are pretty low.

What I do know is that I've done all the testing I can possibly do to ensure that the clutch is disengaged with more testing coming soon this summer.

All in all, I've run into issues with the transmission stock and with the clutch stop, so I'm going to say that's probably how it is, seeing that this is pretty common on most manual cars. So logically this points at the clutch engagement not being an issue with the shifts so a clutch stop if not too thick shouldn't have an impact.