[Nezil]

Originally Posted by Mdkcrf250r

You’re threatening a lawsuit against the oil companies (who have a team of lawyers, good luck) because someone on the internet said you “might” have 88 octane fuel? Do you even hear yourself? I’d venture out on a limb and guess the car would run fine on 87 so long as you’re not tracking it exclusively.

I agree that it's ridiculous, and there is no way I'd take on the oil companies alone. I'd have thought however, that many of the auto companies would be interested to know if the fuel was being 'misrepresented' in a particular area of the country. Particularly if it does cause damage to their under warranty vehicles.

I see you're in San Jose, and if you've not taken datalogs, and are happy just to live in ignorant bliss, then fine, you'll be like the 99.99% rest of the population. Just because one person finds a (possible) issue, doesn't mean that it's not an issue.

As a bit of an update, I did get these message from Halim at ProTuning Freaks yesterday:

I checked [the logs] of your stock map on 91ACN, it had a lot of timing pulled even on stock map. We can build an ACN91 OTS, that's not a problem really, but you must realize that the octane really sucks. I really think it's worse than 88.

Halim asked me to take some logs with their Stage 2 91 Octane OTS map, which I did, and he replied with:

Hey Neil, the octane is really the worst I have ever seen in an M2. Ever.

So to say it is only one person on the internet saying I 'might' have 88 octane fuel, is wrong, it's several, and the logs show it, it's not just conjecture.

The bigger questions, and ones I'm trying to find the answers to, are:

• Is there any better fuel in the bay area - I've tried Costco, Shell and Chevron, in Santa Clara, Sunnyvale, San Jose and Redwood City, but not Valero yet.
• Is anyone else having the same issues - Need to find someone that is happy and capable of taking logs in the bay area.
• Is there some way of independently testing fuel for octane performance.

[Mdkcrf250r]

Correct me if I'm wrong but that's the same guy so it is still only one person saying you have bad gas. I'm not doubting Pro Tuning Freaks or Halim but you might want to get a second opinion with someone in person. That said I am in S.F. Bay Area and am running the stage 2 93 oct map with 1 gallon of 118 oct mixed with 91 pump gas. Datalogs come up clean with occasional knock events every once in a while which Pro Tuning Freaks themselves said is normal even for a stock map.

[Nezil]

Originally Posted by Mdkcrf250r

Correct me if I'm wrong but that's the same guy so it is still only one person saying you have bad gas. I'm not doubting Pro Tuning Freaks or Halim but you might want to get a second opinion with someone in person. That said I am in S.F. Bay Area and am running the stage 2 93 oct map with 1 gallon of 118 oct mixed with 91 pump gas. Datalogs come up clean with occasional knock events every once in a while which Pro Tuning Freaks themselves said is normal even for a stock map.

No, Halim was just the most recent person, and possibly the most qualified. Cary Jordan, SeanWRT and others have looked at my logs and said 'Ooh, bad gas' or similar.

Great, awesome! You're in the Bay Area, and are running 91 pump gas, albeit with a blend of 118. That calculates to exactly 93 AKI assuming mixing octane is linear.

You're also running BM3, which means you are able to take logs. Are you able (and willing) to take logs on pure pump gas with the stock map? Ideally I'd like to fill up at the same station as you, so that we know the fuel is the same, then compare logs.

Where do you get your 118 by the way?

[trainer247]

Have you tried Sunol Super Stop? They have 94-101 octane.

https://m.yelp.com/biz/sunol-super-gasoline-sunol

[akkando]

Originally Posted by cookiesowns

There's quite a few parameters that the DME looks for in fuel quality. Timing correction overtimes, calculated fuel density. Unfortunately I still haven't found a factory bosch function document for the MEVD172G DME's ( cost several thousand dollars ) so I can't tell you specifically.

In bimmerlink there is a PID to measure the DME reported fuel multiplier. Anything less than 1 would mean less than perfect fuel quality. On shell VPower+ Nitro 91 here in so cal, I generally average about .98 to .99 on the stock tune, with occasional 1.0+

I'm not at my car right now and bimmer link doesn't allow you to view the saved dashboard settings until you are connected. I'll chime back here, along with ISTA screenshots when i work on it tomorrow.

Can you please tell me how to find this in bimmerlink?

[Mdkcrf250r]

Originally Posted by Nezil

No, Halim was just the most recent person, and possibly the most qualified. Cary Jordan, SeanWRT and others have looked at my logs and said 'Ooh, bad gas' or similar.

Great, awesome! You're in the Bay Area, and are running 91 pump gas, albeit with a blend of 118. That calculates to exactly 93 AKI assuming mixing octane is linear.

You're also running BM3, which means you are able to take logs. Are you able (and willing) to take logs on pure pump gas with the stock map? Ideally I'd like to fill up at the same station as you, so that we know the fuel is the same, then compare logs.

Where do you get your 118 by the way?

I can’t go back to the stock tune since I have catless downpipe and intercooler but I’d be willing to datalog with the stage 2 91 octane map using 91 pump. I get the 118 from the sun gas station at the bottom of the Sunol grade. They have 5 gallon drums of methanol, 116 and 118.

[Nezil]

Originally Posted by trainer247

Have you tried Sunol Super Stop? They have 94-101 octane.

https://m.yelp.com/biz/sunol-super-gasoline-sunol

Not recently, I live on the penninsula, so it's quite a drive over there. It's also prohibitively expensive to buy a full tank.

I can get Sunoco SS100 in Redwood city and Saratoga, which are a little closer. I think Almaden has VP Racing VP-101 at the pump.

Sunol Super Stop I believe is all Torco BTW.

[Nezil]

Originally Posted by Mdkcrf250r

I can’t go back to the stock tune since I have catless downpipe and intercooler but I’d be willing to datalog with the stage 2 91 octane map using 91 pump.

If you could get a few 3rd gear pulls from < 3,000 rpm to Redline that would be ideal. It would be helpful to know where you filled up to get those. I'll then fill up in the same place, flash the same map and we can compare logs.

I get the 118 from the sun gas station at the bottom of the Sunol grade. They have 5 gallon drums of methanol, 116 and 118.

Yeah, I heard that the Redwood City 76 has a few different 5 gallon drum options in addition to the SS100 at the pump.

You're catless, and I'm Sport Catted, so I can't use the Leaded 118 that you're using. It's a shame, because a gallon of 118 is probably less than 3 gallons of ~100 to achieve the same octane!

Have you ever tried an E30 blend and the E30 OTS map?

[cookiesowns]

Are there any other bay area folks that have the same issue? Send me a tune request on BM3 with some logs. I might be able to get you guys an ACN91 tune that's based on the stock performance map with overboost disabled or increased.

I'm one of the only 3 authorized tuners - that is not a tuner shop at least.

[Nezil]

Sorry cookiesowns, I know I owe you a response... I need to put my latest logs with FMIC installed up on my other thread... You should be able to look at those; I'd appreciate your feedback!

I've been out of the house all day, and haven't been able to type except on my phone, which I find really annoying... I'll reply to your pm later today.

[SeanWRT]

Using fuel below manufacture's minimum octane requirement stress engine in many ways. Can lead to engine damage if you drive hard enough.

I'm not saying OP had a chance fighting against oil company with what he has, but it's appropriate for him to seek a solution for his car. Be it finding a better gas station, figuring out a good mixture or custom tuning to his octane.

[cookiesowns]

Originally Posted by Nezil

Sorry cookiesowns, I know I owe you a response... I need to put my latest logs with FMIC installed up on my other thread... You should be able to look at those; I'd appreciate your feedback!

I've been out of the house all day, and haven't been able to type except on my phone, which I find really annoying... I'll reply to your pm later today.

No worries my friend. Family & life first. Cars second

Originally Posted by SeanWRT

Using fuel below manufacture's minimum octane requirement stress engine in many ways. Can lead to engine damage if you drive hard enough.

I'm not saying OP had a chance fighting against oil company with what he has, but it's appropriate for him to seek a solution for his car. Be it finding a better gas station, figuring out a good mixture or custom tuning to his octane.

While it's pretty obvious it's a octane issue from the pumps he had there... getting a safer tune worked out for the guys in the bay area is a much easier solution than fighting the oil companies, at least in the interim.

[Nezil]

Small update. I have run my tank almost dry and will be putting half a tank of Valero in later today.

I'm going for Valero because there are three refineries in the Bay Area - Chevron, Shell and Valero. My last two tanks were Chevron from two different stations, and the one before that Shell from a recently remodeled station that had new tanks installed! Valero is the third refinery to try...

[Nezil]

OK, I put 6 gallons of Valero in the tank last night, and did some pull and datalogs of the stock map and the BM3 Stage 1 91 Octane OTS map with my car. Logs are here: http://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...1497548&page=3

SeanWRT has confirmed that the logs show a slight improvement over the Chevron gas I was using for my previous runs, but the difference is small, and probably too little to be of any use. Tomorrow's delivery to Chevron may be better than I had last time, the difference is that small I think.

The only thing left to is to compare logs of the same fuel from the same station in two different M2s, with similar mods. Fortunately Mdkcrf250r has suggested that this might be possible, but there is a timing issue here (pun intended!).

I'm going on vacation June 12th ~ July 5th, and therefore won't be able to do any more testing / logging beyond this coming weekend until I'm back. I'm not sure if there will be a chance for Mdkcrf250r to take logs and let me know which station to use before then...

Another thing that would help, would be if we could find a way for akkando to take logs. BM3 licenses are locked to a VIN, so I don't think it would be possible for him to datalog even if I gave him my OBD Agent Device and an OBD Cable.

I'll ask the question to proTUNING Freaks; maybe they could make an exception in this case.

[Mdkcrf250r]

I’m willing to do some logs when you get back. Send me a pm when you’re back.