[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by F87source

You'll get better cylinder temps resulting in lower coolant and oil temps.

And run more boost pressure which would give more power vs the standard manifold at the same boost level.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

And run more boost pressure which would give more power vs the standard manifold at the same boost level.

If cooling is a concern boost isn't where you should be placing your focus, you would want to lean more on timing instead of boost as that will drop EGT's and thus your coolant and cylinder temps.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by F87source

If cooling is a concern boost isn't where you should be placing your focus, you would want to lean more on timing instead of boost as that will drop EGT's and thus your coolant and cylinder temps.

When he said gains, I assumed power over absolute cooling, but you're correct.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

When he said gains, I assumed power over absolute cooling, but you're correct.

Yeah cooling will always be a problem on a car with such a tiny radiator, so I probably will stay sub 400 whp to maximize cooling and not over heat, it will also probably extend the life of the car when pushing it hard on the track.

[SuperMarioM2]

Love this thread. I also track my 2017 N55 M2 regularly and so I have some of the same issues. The funny thing is, I've taken a very similar path over the years and never saw this thread until now.

Difference is my M2 is a 6 spd manual, and my oil temps have always been lower. Likely because the DCT? By lower, I mean on track in Florida, at Sebring and Homestead in June and even July I usually don't see oil temps above 255 or 260 max. IAT's are high (up to 150 and more).

Also started out with a Dinan Stage 4 setup, then changed to Bootmod3 Stage 2. I also removed most of the Dinan mods except the turbo and went FBO using FTP pipes and the Wagner Evo 2 Comp. - it's so much lighter than the Dinan and doesn't require cutting the car into pieces...

I tried the CSF radiator (the non AC delete version) and my coolant temps went up. That's the ONLY time my M2 ever overheated on track. Temps were also higher on the street, but no overheating issues there. The fix was to remove the CSF radiator and run the stock version. Weird, but that was my experience...

I also added the GTS aluminum hood from Suvneer and have to say the fit and finish is very good. I can't say whether it actually reduces temps, but would guess not in any significant way.

I'm also running the CSF oil cooler, the Turbosmart BOV and an upgraded XDI-35 HPFP and Spool Stage 2 LPFP. I've also started running an e30 flex fuel BM3 map recently and love the power it makes. Setting up 3 custom maps now using the Bend Calibration Ultimate BM3 Flex Fuel kit read the ethanol content of the fuel and pass the info to the car via their wiring harness that plugs into the CAN Bus. It's a really cool setup where the car reads the "e" content live and BM3 adjusts the maps accordingly. I haven't had it on track yet with this setup, but should be able to report back after HMS track day coming up on Nov. 7th.

Would love to see more data on that Evo3 on track. I've seen the same data as shared here and it looks impressive. What was the install like? Any cutting needed?

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by SuperMarioM2

Love this thread. I also track my 2017 N55 M2 regularly and so I have some of the same issues. The funny thing is, I've taken a very similar path over the years and never saw this thread until now.

Difference is my M2 is a 6 spd manual, and my oil temps have always been lower. Likely because the DCT? By lower, I mean on track in Florida, at Sebring and Homestead in June and even July I usually don't see oil temps above 255 or 260 max. IAT's are high (up to 150 and more).

Also started out with a Dinan Stage 4 setup, then changed to Bootmod3 Stage 2. I also removed most of the Dinan mods except the turbo and went FBO using FTP pipes and the Wagner Evo 2 Comp. - it's so much lighter than the Dinan and doesn't require cutting the car into pieces...

I tried the CSF radiator (the non AC delete version) and my coolant temps went up. That's the ONLY time my M2 ever overheated on track. Temps were also higher on the street, but no overheating issues there. The fix was to remove the CSF radiator and run the stock version. Weird, but that was my experience...

I also added the GTS aluminum hood from Suvneer and have to say the fit and finish is very good. I can't say whether it actually reduces temps, but would guess not in any significant way.

I'm also running the CSF oil cooler, the Turbosmart BOV and an upgraded XDI-35 HPFP and Spool Stage 2 LPFP. I've also started running an e30 flex fuel BM3 map recently and love the power it makes. Setting up 3 custom maps now using the Bend Calibration Ultimate BM3 Flex Fuel kit read the ethanol content of the fuel and pass the info to the car via their wiring harness that plugs into the CAN Bus. It's a really cool setup where the car reads the "e" content live and BM3 adjusts the maps accordingly. I haven't had it on track yet with this setup, but should be able to report back after HMS track day coming up on Nov. 7th.

Would love to see more data on that Evo3 on track. I've seen the same data as shared here and it looks impressive. What was the install like? Any cutting needed?

Welcome to Florida.
While I believe it's possible that the Evo3 performs better than VRSF/BMS R - I think it's a hard sell at 3 times the price.

Weight is similar between the two (My VRSF-R weighs about 32-33lbs) and pressure drop (PSI cost) is about .85PSI thejeremyman9 installed his in place of the VRSF 5" and experienced no change in WGDC, and no added lag.

His IAT performance can get as low as 5F over ambient.

[ZM2]

Originally Posted by SuperMarioM2

Love this thread. I also track my 2017 N55 M2 regularly and so I have some of the same issues. The funny thing is, I've taken a very similar path over the years and never saw this thread until now.

Difference is my M2 is a 6 spd manual, and my oil temps have always been lower. Likely because the DCT? By lower, I mean on track in Florida, at Sebring and Homestead in June and even July I usually don't see oil temps above 255 or 260 max. IAT's are high (up to 150 and more).

Also started out with a Dinan Stage 4 setup, then changed to Bootmod3 Stage 2. I also removed most of the Dinan mods except the turbo and went FBO using FTP pipes and the Wagner Evo 2 Comp. - it's so much lighter than the Dinan and doesn't require cutting the car into pieces...

I tried the CSF radiator (the non AC delete version) and my coolant temps went up. That's the ONLY time my M2 ever overheated on track. Temps were also higher on the street, but no overheating issues there. The fix was to remove the CSF radiator and run the stock version. Weird, but that was my experience...

I also added the GTS aluminum hood from Suvneer and have to say the fit and finish is very good. I can't say whether it actually reduces temps, but would guess not in any significant way.

I'm also running the CSF oil cooler, the Turbosmart BOV and an upgraded XDI-35 HPFP and Spool Stage 2 LPFP. I've also started running an e30 flex fuel BM3 map recently and love the power it makes. Setting up 3 custom maps now using the Bend Calibration Ultimate BM3 Flex Fuel kit read the ethanol content of the fuel and pass the info to the car via their wiring harness that plugs into the CAN Bus. It's a really cool setup where the car reads the "e" content live and BM3 adjusts the maps accordingly. I haven't had it on track yet with this setup, but should be able to report back after HMS track day coming up on Nov. 7th.

Would love to see more data on that Evo3 on track. I've seen the same data as shared here and it looks impressive. What was the install like? Any cutting needed?

Nice! Sounds very similar to my path!

I have to admit the CSF radiator has always been suspect for me, but I had not heard of anyone changing from it back to OEM, and coolant (and oil) temps then went down.

Can you confirm that with any data or more details about your track outings that confirmed the CSF radiator was the issue?

Thanks!

[ZM2]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

Welcome to Florida.
While I believe it's possible that the Evo3 performs better than VRSF/BMS R - I think it's a hard sell at 3 times the price.

Weight is similar between the two (My VRSF-R weighs about 32-33lbs) and pressure drop (PSI cost) is about .85PSI thejeremyman9 installed his in place of the VRSF 5" and experienced no change in WGDC, and no added lag.

His IAT performance can get as low as 5F over ambient.

Performance seems close between those IC’s (and much better than the Evo2).

The advantages of the Evo3 are it comes with all the pipes so that narrows the cost delta, and it mounts secure to the crash bumper which is great for track sturdiness/reliability.

SuperMarioM2 Install is a bit of a pain, tho: https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1727351

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by ZM2

Performance seems close between those IC’s (and much better than the Evo2).

The advantages of the Evo3 are it comes with all the pipes so that narrows the cost delta, and it mounts secure to the crash bumper which is great for track sturdiness/reliability.

SuperMarioM2 Install is a bit of a pain, tho: https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1727351

I do like the mounting, but you're right, it's involved.
I noted that the Evo 3 does have oversize piping, but that actually seems to be the norm - https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1867696

in terms of cost, you're correct - its closer if you factor in the cost of the chargepipe and TIC

VRSF MSRP - $600 ($480 on sale price)
VRSF Charge Pipe- $220
Total - $700 - $820

Vs

Wagner Evo 3 MSRP - $1,600.00
Chargepipe (included) $0.00
TIC pipe (included - $0.00

Price gets about half as much when you factor in the TIC pipe (FTP or the link) but it's not really necessary. I'll see if thejeremyman9 is ok with me posting his logs for comparison.

With so little data on the EVO 3 (I have you and 1 other to review logs from) its hard to come to any definitive answer, but both seem to be legitimate choices. With both you will likely have to remove the bumper, and on the BMS/VRSF you may need to modify the fan shroud tab.

[ZM2]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

I do like the mounting, but you're right, it's involved.
I noted that the Evo 3 does have oversize piping, but that actually seems to be the norm - https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1867696

in terms of cost, you're correct - its closer if you factor in the cost of the chargepipe and TIC

VRSF MSRP - $600 ($480 on sale price)
VRSF Charge Pipe- $220
Total - $700 - $820

Vs

Wagner Evo 3 MSRP - $1,600.00
Chargepipe (included) $0.00
TIC pipe (included - $0.00

Price gets about half as much when you factor in the TIC pipe (FTP or the link) but it's not really necessary. I'll see if thejeremyman9 is ok with me posting his logs for comparison.

With so little data on the EVO 3 (I have you and 1 other to review logs from) its hard to come to any definitive answer, but both seem to be legitimate choices. With both you will likely have to remove the bumper, and on the BMS/VRSF you may need to modify the fan shroud tab.

I think the Evo3's base price has gone up since I bought it last summer, and I was able to get it from Mike at XPH with a discount that made it a few hundred bucks cheaper than the price you're listing. IDK his current forum member pricing, tho.

The TIC pipe is a typical mod for track guys for increased reliability, so factoring in the discount and TIC and the prices become a few hundred bucks of each other. So, just ends up being personal/use case preference b/n the two since there is no heads up 3-4-5 pull log data b/n them, much less on the same tuned car, on the same track, during the same conditions.

Either seems to get the job done, tho!

[F87source]

Originally Posted by ZM2

I think the Evo3's base price has gone up since I bought it last summer, and I was able to get it from Mike at XPH with a discount that made it a few hundred bucks cheaper than the price you're listing. IDK his current forum member pricing, tho.

The TIC pipe is a typical mod for track guys for increased reliability, so factoring in the discount and TIC and the prices become a few hundred bucks of each other. So, just ends up being personal/use case preference b/n the two since there is no heads up 3-4-5 pull log data b/n them, much less on the same tuned car, on the same track, during the same conditions.

Either seems to get the job done, tho!

Generally the TIC pipe will never fail because its design is insanely robust and made of a reinforced woven fiber exterior and rubber interior. You would be able to push more boost than the engine can hold before this pipe failed.

Typically you only upgrade this pipe for better air flow since an upgraded pipe does have smoother bends and thus you will get better throttle response - albeit the gains are probably marginal.


In terms of VRSF, I am personally not a fan of their quality (hit or miss) nor customer service. I have seen them blame the customer for charge pipes rubbing on the steering rack or ac compressor over and over again, until they realized it was their pipes having crap fitment quality and that was then they redesigned their pipe.

[ZM2]

Originally Posted by SuperMarioM2

Love this thread. I also track my 2017 N55 M2 regularly and so I have some of the same issues. The funny thing is, I've taken a very similar path over the years and never saw this thread until now.

Difference is my M2 is a 6 spd manual, and my oil temps have always been lower. Likely because the DCT? By lower, I mean on track in Florida, at Sebring and Homestead in June and even July I usually don't see oil temps above 255 or 260 max. IAT's are high (up to 150 and more).

Also started out with a Dinan Stage 4 setup, then changed to Bootmod3 Stage 2. I also removed most of the Dinan mods except the turbo and went FBO using FTP pipes and the Wagner Evo 2 Comp. - it's so much lighter than the Dinan and doesn't require cutting the car into pieces...

I tried the CSF radiator (the non AC delete version) and my coolant temps went up. That's the ONLY time my M2 ever overheated on track. Temps were also higher on the street, but no overheating issues there. The fix was to remove the CSF radiator and run the stock version. Weird, but that was my experience...

I also added the GTS aluminum hood from Suvneer and have to say the fit and finish is very good. I can't say whether it actually reduces temps, but would guess not in any significant way.

I'm also running the CSF oil cooler, the Turbosmart BOV and an upgraded XDI-35 HPFP and Spool Stage 2 LPFP. I've also started running an e30 flex fuel BM3 map recently and love the power it makes. Setting up 3 custom maps now using the Bend Calibration Ultimate BM3 Flex Fuel kit read the ethanol content of the fuel and pass the info to the car via their wiring harness that plugs into the CAN Bus. It's a really cool setup where the car reads the "e" content live and BM3 adjusts the maps accordingly. I haven't had it on track yet with this setup, but should be able to report back after HMS track day coming up on Nov. 7th.

Would love to see more data on that Evo3 on track. I've seen the same data as shared here and it looks impressive. What was the install like? Any cutting needed?

SuperMarioM2

Any data or more info about switching your CSF radiator back to stock, and your coolant temp issues being resolved?

My car is going into the shop today for TTE460 install and may switch the radiator back to stock to test this, but hoping to see data before doing so.

[F87source]

Finally a turbo blanket is going to be available for the m2.

ZM2 you might want to consider adding this to your build.


Coverage around the hot side turbine housing isn't perfect as there are still large gaps but it should still be better than nothing. The exhaust manifold itself has really good coverage though so thats great.

[ZM2]

Originally Posted by F87source

Finally a turbo blanket is going to be available for the m2.

ZM2 you might want to consider adding this to your build.


Coverage around the hot side turbine housing isn't perfect as there are still large gaps but it should still be better than nothing. The exhaust manifold itself has really good coverage though so thats great.

Nice. If only I could get one of these this week while my TTE460 is going on!

[F87source]

Originally Posted by ZM2

Nice. If only I could get one of these this week while my TTE460 is going on!

Message them and ask! Maybe they have some early units, and I'm sure they would love some data.

One thing to note, make sure nothing obstructs the EWG arm.

[AmuroRay]

Any gains for a stock Turbo besides a cooler engine bay?

[F87source]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

Any gains for a stock Turbo besides a cooler engine bay?

Theoretically keeping the heat in the manifold keeps the exhaust gasses hot and thus moving faster, this should create faster spool and better response. How much of that is noticable idk, for me it is more for thermal management and combating on track over heating.

[ZM2]

Originally Posted by F87source

Message them and ask! Maybe they have some early units, and I'm sure they would love some data.

One thing to note, make sure nothing obstructs the EWG arm.

I messaged them, we'll see what they say!

[F87source]

Originally Posted by ZM2

I messaged them, we'll see what they say!

Awesome! hopefully they can get one for you in time!


Also the concept of a turbo blanket for heat reduction means it is limiting the amount of exposed surface area of the exhaust components. Less surface area means less effective area to radiate heat into the engine bay, so technically the total amount of heat radiated into the engine bay should go down resulting in a cooler engine bay. To further decrease engine bay temps you should consider coating your down pipe with ceramic coating, or use inconel heat shielding. I do not recommend exhaust wraps because they can cause cracking of the metal - either due to moisture getting trapped within the wraps or the wraps preventing proper metal expansion (there is a lot of debate on which really causes the cracking). So ceramic coating or an inconel heat shield (loose fit around the pipe so moisture trapping or metal expansion will not be an issue) would be a better solution.

[AWC-F87]

I wonder if the blanket can be installed with the turbo in the car

[F87source]

Originally Posted by AWC-F87

I wonder if the blanket can be installed with the turbo in the car

I think it's possible, the top section can be done while reaching down from the engine bay. The bottom portion that wraps around the exhaust side will have to be done from under the car. If you remove the stiffening plate you can reach between the motor mount, and you might have to pull the intercooler, turbo inlet and outlet, and maybe water pump depending on how big your hands are. But it should be doable.

[AWC-F87]

Originally Posted by F87source

I think it's possible, the top section can be done while reaching down from the engine bay. The bottom portion that wraps around the exhaust side will have to be done from under the car. If you remove the stiffening plate you can reach between the motor mount, and you might have to pull the intercooler, turbo inlet and outlet, and maybe water pump depending on how big your hands are. But it should be doable.

I guess one of us will find out lol

I put the turbo in myself so I know how tight things are in there.

I think there should be enough room. The main coolant pipe is probably the closest thing to the manifold. I doubt the water pump will need to be removed. Worst case I could see the engine Mount being in the way.