[MMMBRAP]

For me my M2C is a weekend toy, so there is zero reason for me to spec DCT.

Does that make DCT and its brethren like PDK bad?

Far from it. In fact not even close. If I was going to daily my M2C, DCT is a no brainer, imo.

I think having two options for driving preference and usage, be it daily or weekender is a win win all around.

This whole MT vs DCT argument is silly at best.

[ellipsis212]

Originally Posted by Poochie

That's his style, nothing new..

He's the self-depreciating/dry humor type but his reviews are pretty objective and informative.

It flies like a brick

[MartyE12345]

I should have known when I posted the review that adding a comment about the DCT would spark a DTC vs Manual thread.

I like Savagegeese’s reviews a lot. However some of them are like 35 plus minutes long. That’s a long time to be watching something on YouTube.

[Greyzor]

Originally Posted by ellipsis212

I've never seen this reviewer before but his smugness is overwhelming. His words are saying he generally likes the car but all I see is abject SMARM.

I agree about his style. It's kind of like watching a goth teenager (but bald) review cars.

Anyway, I thought his use-case driven decision making between the Supra and the M2 was actually the best part of the video. He says the M2 is the the more fun street car and the Supra is the more precise machine if you are interested in competitive auto cross.

It fits my decision to get the M2. If I want my car to be competitive... I would probably be doing that in a track built Miata or similar vs hoping my brand new $50-65k street car is "competitive" out of the box.

[THEROK]

He's the best yt car reviewer in the biz atm.

BMW manuals? Far from best in its game. Rubbery, numb... DCT is arguably better than PDK. Visceral.

[DroneandDone]

His review of the OG M2 left him really unimpressed. I like his reviews too. It kind of cut me deep

[adc]

The slowest cars on track are those with DCT, all Dinan goodies, carbon fiber aero appendages, and CCB’s.

All joking aside, his review may have been honest, but it was full of inaccuracies and delivered in a manner that to me came across all wrong. Also, the lap times posted by the M2C do not point out to an oversteery untamable beast. Just saying.


Some look to reviews to validate or invalidate their purchases or decisions. Reviewers can sometimes put things into context, but they can also be jaded by other cars they’ve experienced. Reality often times falls in between, is what I’ve found.

[GoHerd]

I'm an OG patreon donor for Savage Geese.
Love his production quality and Tubowski.
I thought the review was really good.
His archives are really good.

[Scrippy]

Originally Posted by MartyE12345

I own a DCT, I think it is amazing too. I was just surprised to hear a reviewer say it, usually they still argue the manual is the better choice. I don’t know if I’ve heard anyone praise it as much as him. I believe he said it was on supercar levels. My only complaint about the DCT is driving around town at slower speeds it isn’t incredibly smooth, or doesn’t know what gear it wants to be in. I would have bought a manual if I didn’t own a s2000. Overall I’m very happy with the DCT.

Drop the shift mode down to S2 for chill driving and it is smooth. I'm not sure why folks criticize the DCT either.....it's a intended for fast shifts which it does quit well. If you are looking for smooth do not look to sports car transmissions. The DCT is very underrated by folks. IMO folks too critical for the wrong reasons.

[CP911]

Originally Posted by MMMBRAP

For me my M2C is a weekend toy, so there is zero reason for me to spec DCT.

I am in the same boat with my M240i. I bought it knowing it was a weekend toy, so it only made sense to spec with the 6-speed. However, one thing I overlooked was that my weekend toy would also be used at the track a few times a year, which is where the real magic and smiles happen. I tracked my M240i for the first time last month, and now I have slight DCT envy. The manual is fantastic for street driving, but on the track, I was faster leaving the car in 3rd gear the whole time vs. losing time trying to shift up to 4th briefly at the end of the straights, only to have to shift down again before the turn. So on track, I found there was none of the engagement factor (because I didn't even shift!) and I was slower than I would have been in an auto-equipped car. Definitely a trade-off there for the added fun-factor on the street.

I'm test driving a M2C DCT on July 15th when the M Town Tour is coming to my local BMW dealership. If I find it engaging and fun on the streets, I might just sell my M240i and upgrade. If I drove my car more on the streets, I wouldn't even consider doing this, but I live where the roads are crap 6 months of the year and being a new father of 2 little ones, I don't have much free time for weekend joy rides anymore. So now I'm leaning more towards a track 1st, street 2nd type of car with the DCT transmission being the major factor there.

One thing I found interesting in this video review was that they were going on and on about how the M2C would actually not make for a good track car "because the rear end gets too loose too easily." I saw 1st hand on track how superior the M2 Competitions were in the turns compared to my M240i. I'm sure with a little throttle discipline, the M2 Competition would make for a fine weekend warrior.

[skier219]

Originally Posted by CP911

One thing I found interesting in this video review was that they were going on and on about how the M2C would actually not make for a good track car "because the rear end gets too loose too easily."

I think you could drift every turn in the M2 if you wanted to (it's willing), but I have seen many good drivers track it and I never got the impression the rear was breaking loose any worse than other similar vehicles. And there are plenty of track runs on YouTube showing this too. Maybe the reviewer just hadn't mastered the car at 9/10 and 10/10.

The other thing is that some drivers don't think a car corners good unless it's on rails the whole time, and that is somewhat of an artificial requirement. Fastest time is what counts on a track and cornering on rails isn't necessarily the best or only way to get that out of a car.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by AlpsRider

I think shifting properly is a skill. I've driven with so many people that have been driving manuals all their lives and still can't shift worth a damn. There is a certain satisfaction in getting the correct gear and rpm for a given driving situation without a jerk. That being said, if you drive a DCT in manual mode you could conceivably do the same thing. I have a feeling that most people with a DCT drive them in auto mode though.

+2

Agreed! Let's be clear. Driving a manual well is a skill. Heel/toe downshifts are a skill, and I would wager that most people don't know know to do it.

Fact: DCT/auto transmissions require little to no skill. Let the fire rage....

[13blk335ix]

6mt master race discussion over.

[evanescent03]

Originally Posted by ssabripo

Why?

I don't know why this forum has a subculture with a raging hardon for 6MT... I'm 47, and have ALWAYS driven Manual cars, but since the F80, and now my M2C, I started driving DCT and never looked back.

PDK may be smoother and better in certain ways, etc, but DCT is a PHENOMENAL transmission, and thus far, I am hoping to continue on it. The next gen G80 M3 will have manual or ZF automatic, so between those I likely would choose manual, but DCT has been nothing short of great for me, and certainly agree that it is one of the best transmissions out there.

And I don't know why people have such a raging hardon for the DCT.. the "non-automatic" automatic.

Granted I'm playing devils advocate a bit... I've had multiple manuals, autos and DCTs. I'm 34 and still long for manual gear changes when I'm out for a fun cruise. Day to day, drinking my coffee and eating on the way to work in moderate traffic I love an auto/DCT. So neither is perfect, neither sucks.

As for the DCT is great but I'd take a manual over an auto argument ... I honestly only get that unless you're a fanboy bc although I understand they are different, they're much closer to each other than a manual and DCT. So why on earth would you go from 2 pedals to 3?

I'm skeptical about the new M3 auto but that's bc I enjoy a manual in my "fun" car... and no PDK or DCT I've owned gets close. I had way more fun driving my F80 6MT over the F80 with DCT I had ... sure hope they keep giving us options and I hope the auto satisfies the DCT crowd, too.

[Davil]

Originally Posted by CosmosMpower

I got a rental M2C in Germany for ED and it had the DCT, it was god awful. The stupid thing could never decide what gear it was in, it was jerky when slowing down to a stop and sometimes it wouldn't upshift and just held at high rpm's while accelerating (1/2 to 3/4 throttle) for about 3-4 seconds before deciding to shift up. I remember the DCT being not so great in my wife's E90 M3 and it doesn't seem to have improved in the 19 M2C either. Glad I got the 6MT.

Here’s what I don’t get. Every “manual guy” driver drives a DCT like an automatic then complains about it and declares they take joy in shifting their own gears.

The DCT will get by shifting its own gears but it will never be anywhere near as good as an automatic gear box, mainly because it isn’t. The joy of the DCT is in shifting your own gears. It’s bloody amazing. It sounds so good, feels so fast. It’s an incredibly engaging drives. Moreso than the manual in my opinion.

As for the skill aspect in driving manual. Try this.

Place one hand on your tummy and rotate in a clockwise direction. Now with the other hand pat yourself on the head. If you can do this you have more skill than is needed to heel and toe.

As far as driving goes, it’s probably the simplest skill there is.

[Fuller]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

I don't understand why preference is met with such contempt. Some like DCT. Some like 6MT. You guys argue like women.

Why assume they're all guys then? I see plenty of women driving bmws of varying models, including m2s.

What differentiates a woman's style of arguing from a man's.

[gmazet]

Originally Posted by Davil

The joy of the DCT is in shifting your own gears. It’s bloody amazing. It sounds so good, feels so fast. It’s an incredibly engaging drives. Moreso than the manual in my opinion.

THIS!

I had a blast on the test drive doing DCT in "manual" mode. lot of fun. a lot more fun than my zf in the x5 (though that is fun too). great shift speed and responsiveness.

a lot of fun. and I am a MT guy. all my previous sports cars have been MT. I personally didn't feel cheated by not having to pump my left leg for every shift.

[marcva]

Originally Posted by akkando

I think he feels that those cars are a better dedicated sports car platform, and maybe in the Supra's case, cheaper to maintain. If you want the sports car feel, maybe the M2C isn't the place to look considering it sits high and has back seats and reasonable trunk.

Didn't BMW invent and dominate a segment called small sports sedan once upon a time? A car that runs with sports cars at track days, but also let's you haul your kids.

[Jklad]

Originally Posted by Davil

Here’s what I don’t get. Every “manual guy” driver drives a DCT like an automatic then complains about it and declares they take joy in shifting their own gears.

The DCT will get by shifting its own gears but it will never be anywhere near as good as an automatic gear box, mainly because it isn’t. The joy of the DCT is in shifting your own gears. It’s bloody amazing. It sounds so good, feels so fast. It’s an incredibly engaging drives. Moreso than the manual in my opinion.

As for the skill aspect in driving manual. Try this.

Place one hand on your tummy and rotate in a clockwise direction. Now with the other hand pat yourself on the head. If you can do this you have more skill than is needed to heel and toe.

As far as driving goes, it’s probably the simplest skill there is.

"Here's what I don't get. Every "manual guy" driver drives a DCT like an automatic then complains about it and declares they take joy in shifting their own gears. "


because there's no third pedal. Without a third pedal that requires precise control and provides feedback to the driver each time you disengage the tranny between shifts, there's really no point in driving the dct around in manual mode all the time. Dct makes the daily drive boring. It's like playing a video game a hitting r1 for upshoft and r2 for downshift, why bother. Been driving stick exclusively since I got my license for 20 years now, traffic and all, hope they keep it around.

[heavyD^2]

He's not my favorite but I like that he is one of the few in the automotive media that was willing to address the manual transmission problems in the Civic Type R. It's a good video as he explains how automakers purposely never admit to known problems until it escalates to a point where they have no choice.

All the reviews of the Civic describe it as a brilliant manual transmission but plenty of owners have had issues and I wonder sometimes if media kind of avoids being critical of this stuff because they badly want the manual transmission to remain relevant as they will always point out the flaws in a DCT or other Auto transmission but rarely will they pick apart a manual transmission. Heck several posters here seem to believe the M2 manual transmission isn't very good but have you ever seen a single review where the reviewer said anything bad about it?

[Tag]

Originally Posted by heavyD^2

He's not my favorite but I like that he is one of the few in the automotive media that was willing to address the manual transmission problems in the Civic Type R. It's a good video as he explains how automakers purposely never admit to known problems until it escalates to a point where they have no choice.

All the reviews of the Civic describe it as a brilliant manual transmission but plenty of owners have had issues and I wonder sometimes if media kind of avoids being critical of this stuff because they badly want the manual transmission to remain relevant as they will always point out the flaws in a DCT or other Auto transmission but rarely will they pick apart a manual transmission. Heck several posters here seem to believe the M2 manual transmission isn't very good but have you ever seen a single review where the reviewer said anything bad about it?

Love his fine print series of videos, wish he'd do more.

[spuntyb]

Originally Posted by ssabripo

Why?

I don't know why this forum has a subculture with a raging hardon for 6MT... I'm 47, and have ALWAYS driven Manual cars, but since the F80, and now my M2C, I started driving DCT and never looked back.

PDK may be smoother and better in certain ways, etc, but DCT is a PHENOMENAL transmission, and thus far, I am hoping to continue on it. The next gen G80 M3 will have manual or ZF automatic, so between those I likely would choose manual, but DCT has been nothing short of great for me, and certainly agree that it is one of the best transmissions out there.

In this range, nothing beats PDK, but honestly, the strength of the F80 DCT is why I went with that instead of manual. I had low expectations, and was planning to get a 6MT, but then happened to drive the DCT one day just by chance, and was pleasantly surprised. It's *very good*. Like you, I grew up driving stick, and always preferred it, but unless I'm in a Miata/Z4 kind of sports cars, these DCTs are excellent now days.