[///AVM]

Lots of anticipation regarding G87 release, including a couple ongoing threads devoted to the topic. As is typical for a highly anticipated new model release, there are some optimists . . . and the usual host of pundits.

I am not going to compare the F87 and G80. However, given the G87 will inherit quite a bit in common from the G80/82, I wanted to share a 'few of my favorite things' about the G80 M3C that I anticipate will also come standard and/or be available as option with the G87.

1. S58
2. S58
3. S58
4. HUD*
5. Carbon Fiber bucket seats
6. Adaptive suspension

*What has completely caught me off-guard is the HUD. In SPORT M-Mode the tachometer is RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOUR FACE; you never have to try and monitor the gauge cluster tach out of the corner of your eye.

The REALLY cool thing is that when you approach 4-5K RPM another, even larger (e.g., magnified) tach line appears above the running tach line. The magnified line lights up and progresses from yellow to red as you rev it out.

I tried to find photos/videos of this feature online for the G80/82 and could not find anything as visual aid. However, I was perusing the owners manual and came across the page shown below. It is in black and white, but you can see the tach line and magnified tach line above it (e.g., arrows 1 and 2).

This might seem like a 'little thing' but if you enjoy getting the most out of your shift points like I do, then you will quickly fall in love with this feature.

Poochie you are the Bimmerpost technical guru, so perhaps you can find a video of the G80/82 HUD tachometer in action?

In summary, do not get caught up in the pundit noise. The G87 is going to be an absolute thrill and impressive encore to the F87 . . . honestly, at this point, I doubt I will be moving from the G80 into the G87. However, I believe the move from F87 to G87 will be worthy endeavor for the enthusiast looking to experience BMW's next level driver's experience.

///AVM

P.S. The ZF8 manual mode is no different than using DCT manual mode. Performance is fantastic. The ZF8 has one too many gears (8), so I do wish shifts were a bit taller. Just a small 'want' on my part . . . then again, I have never found the Porsche gearing too tall, as many other claim to be the case. For those inclined to use automatic mode, ZF8 is FAR superior to DCT in such regard.

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by ///AVM

The REALLY cool thing is that when you approach 4-5K RPM another, even larger (e.g., magnified) tach line appears above the running tach line. The magnified line lights up and progresses from yellow to red as you rev it out.

I tried to find photos/videos of this feature online for the G80/82 and could not find anything as visual aid. However, I was perusing the owners manual and came across the page shown below. It is in black and white, but you can see the tach line and magnified tach line above it (e.g., arrows 1 and 2).

This might seem like a 'little thing' but if you enjoy getting the most out of your shift points like I do, then you will quickly fall in love with this feature.

Poochie you are the Bimmerpost technical guru, so perhaps you can find a video of the G80/82 HUD tachometer in action?

I've seen older BMW heads-up display in action before and although they were very informative, they where mono-color in appearance. The new G-gen display color scheme is night and day, in comparison to the F-Series' animation.

I can't find any videos to reference M version to the heads up display, since its bespoke to this model and very scarce, thus far but something should surface soon and I'll link it when I encounter one. However, I am aware of what you are speaking of; somewhere buried in my muscle memory I remembered viewing it.

BTW, being an avid tech junkie, so I'm just gaga over all the new technology in the G-Generation and can't wait to sink my teeth into one, especially all the coding potential!

And don't take anyone seriously who believes that the S58 is underpowered below 3,000 rpm. Ever thought that maybe it's intentionally tuned that way so the average driver is not overwhelming by onslaught of available power. #Duh

Anyways, thanx for sharing some insight and enjoy

[richard in NC]

Originally Posted by Poochie

And don't take anyone seriously who believes that the S58 is underpowered below 3,000 rpm. Ever thought that maybe it's intentionally tuned that way so the average driver is not overwhelming by onslaught of available power. #Duh

Anyways, thanx for sharing some insight and enjoy

The S58 in the X3M absolutely that way. I have the M2C with S55 and an X3M base model with S58. The X3M is a dog below 2k, is just bearable as it starts to climb above 2k, but then finally hits hard in the 2700-3k range. Granted its 1000 lbs heavier than the M2C but I love the S55 usable torque from 1800 up and it steadily builds all thru the 2s, full on by 2500 or so. A huge difference between the two! If the S58 in the M3 is tuned better at the low end, I'd love to get that in the X3M.

[///AVM]

Originally Posted by richard in NC

The S58 in the X3M absolutely that way. I have the M2C with S55 and an X3M base model with S58. The X3M is a dog below 2k, is just bearable as it starts to climb above 2k, but then finally hits hard in the 2700-3k range. Granted its 1000 lbs heavier than the M2C but I love the S55 usable torque from 1800 up and it steadily builds all thru the 2s, full on by 2500 or so. A huge difference between the two! If the S58 in the M3 is tuned better at the low end, I'd love to get that in the X3M.

Richard

I have not driven an X3M . . . based on your described experience, I can assure you the M3C is no X3M when it comes S58 performance.

///AVM

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by richard in NC

The S58 in the X3M absolutely that way. I have the M2C with S55 and an X3M base model with S58. The X3M is a dog below 2k, is just bearable as it starts to climb above 2k, but then finally hits hard in the 2700-3k range. Granted its 1000 lbs heavier than the M2C but I love the S55 usable torque from 1800 up and it steadily builds all thru the 2s, full on by 2500 or so. A huge difference between the two! If the S58 in the M3 is tuned better at the low end, I'd love to get that in the X3M.

When the F8X M3/M4 was released, the number one complaint was how top-heavy the initial torque push was, where it overwhelmed the rear tires and although that can be fun at times, it was terrible for actual traction, as the hooking up of actual wheels and sometimes, when the tires became half worn, the jolt of power delivery decreased safety parameters, the vehicle was originally designed around.

BMW eventually revised the software down the line, where they tuned it to more neutered at lower RPMs but the underlining power was still there because the actual hardware wasn't downgraded.

Keeping that in mind, It's only naturally BMW learned from their earlier mistakes and tuned the S58's initial power delivery to be more linear and less spiky.

I've throughly driven the M340i with just the B58 and I can attest that even that motor has gobs and gobs of torque, where when you were on it, it could embarrassed Porsches, however, way it was tuned was that you had to basically be in WOT to really access it.

It was not a inherent flaw but a calculated power delivery, to smooth out the adverse surge of a high-boost motor. I assume the it's the same deal with the S58.

BMW is going to milk the S58 motor for all that it is worth, maybe even hybridize it in one point in time, trust me, from the ground up, it has the juice, the supposed lack thereof in power is merely all the programming.

[richard in NC]

Originally Posted by Poochie

BMW is going to milk the S58 motor for all that it is worth, maybe even hybridize it in one point in time, trust me, from the ground up, it has the juice, the supposed lack thereof in power is merely all the programming.

Bottom line, the S58 in the X3M has nothing down low. Most of the time it readily downshifts unless you're behind a slowpoke merging on the interstate. Then it thinks you're set to cruise at 50 mph, drops into 7th or 8th and takes a hard punch to downshift 3 gears, get into 3rd or 4th and accelerate to highway speeds and pass the idiot.

I need to take both cars out and time ~40-80 runs starting at 1500 RPMs. The M2C would run away from the X3M.

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by richard in NC

Bottom line, the S58 in the X3M has nothing down low. Most of the time it readily downshifts unless you're behind a slowpoke merging on the interstate. Then it thinks you're set to cruise at 50 mph, drops into 7th or 8th and takes a hard punch to downshift 3 gears, get into 3rd or 4th and accelerate to highway speeds and pass the idiot.

I need to take both cars out and time ~40-80 runs starting at 1500 RPMs. The M2C would run away from the X3M.

Fair enough but let's just agree that this is not an inherently weak motor, its a evolution up from the S55 and its set personality is determined by its specific software - for better or worst..

[///AVM]

Originally Posted by Poochie

Fair enough but let's just agree that this is not an inherently weak motor, its a evolution up from the S55 and its set personality is determined by its specific software - for better or worst..

Let's agree the X3M is not the M3C . . . I will take Richard's word for it that the X3M is a dog down low . . . take my word for it that the M3C is an absolute monster from bottom to top.

///AVM

[///AVM]

Having had the pleasure and privilege of owning an M2C motored by the S55, I was leery BMW engineers could outdo themselves with the S58 . . . the S58 has blown me away, both figuratively and literally.

For that matter, the entire M3C package is proving itself to represent next level engineering.

I will keep saying it until others can taste for themselves, the G87 will take the already great F87 to the next level.

richard in NC you are NOT a pundit and, again, I believe you when you say the X3M is disappointing down low . . . I just would not extrapolate that experience to what others can expect from the S58 in the G87. It most certainly does not apply to the G80.

///AVM

[Davil]

Definitely in M4C guise it's a smooth monster. There is no lack of torque at all. It is just there all the time. Also the auto transmissions suits this delivery really well. Smooth shifting constant power. The S55/DCT combo is much more manic.

[///AVM]

^ Sums things up nicely

///AVM

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by ///AVM

Poochie you are the Bimmerpost technical guru, so perhaps you can find a video of the G80/82 HUD tachometer in action?

Hey, I believe I found a video of a rough demonstration of the aforementioned cascading shift-light display for the G80 heads-up display you referenced, more on less projected onto the instrument cluster of an M5 CS.

It is visible at the 00:45 point, of this particular video:

[///AVM]

Originally Posted by Poochie

Hey, I believe I found a video of a rough demonstration of the aforementioned cascading shift-light display for the G80 heads-up display you referenced, more on less projected onto the instrument cluster of an M5 CS.

It is visible at the 00:45 point, of this particular video

Poochie

Thank you brother, but you must have a LOT better vision than I do . . . I did not see HUD in this video at any point.

The M5CS sounds lovely . . . and I dig your appropriate use of the word 'cascading' regarding the shift point display that appears above the tachometer.

///AVM

[ESB]

Originally Posted by ///AVM

Poochie

Thank you brother, but you must have a LOT better vision than I do . . . I did not see HUD in this video at any point.

The M5CS sounds lovely . . . and I did your appropriate use of the word 'cascading' regarding the shift point display that appears above the tachometer.

///AVM

Could it possibly be similar to what Doug shows on this 2014 M6???

8:05

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by ///AVM

Poochie

Thank you brother, but you must have a LOT better vision than I do . . . I did not see HUD in this video at any point.

The M5CS sounds lovely . . . and I dig your appropriate use of the word 'cascading' regarding the shift point display that appears above the tachometer.

///AVM

LoL, I guess I should of been a little more articulate; I don't have superhuman vision either and can't see the shift-light indicator on the heads-up display but the same style shift-light animation can be alternated between the cluster or heads-up display, as demonstrated and visible in the M5 CS' video.

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by ESB

Could it possibly be similar to what Doug shows on this 2014 M6???

8:05

No, that's the previous F generation styling, the shift-light has been revised to à la of the M5 CS' instrument cluster above, for all G gen M models, from here on out..

[///AVM]

Originally Posted by Poochie

LoL, I guess I should of been a little more articulate; I don't have superhuman vision either and can't see the shift-light indicator on the heads-up display but the same style shift-light animation can be alternated between the cluster or heads-up display, as demonstrated and visible in the M5 CS' video.

Yes Poochie, if you do not have M Mode HUD activated to show tachometer, the cascading shift point monitor will be displayed in the gauge cluster (between the two tachometers). . . as described in the manual pic I showed in post #2619.

The cascading shift point monitor views are different between gauge cluster and HUD, but the same information is presented. Nonetheless, the beauty of having the shift monitor in HUD is that you do not have to divert your field of gaze from the road (to visualize in gauge cluster).

Trust me, I know the M2 enthusiast crowd and fact that there are going to be a lot of 'traditionalists' bitching and moaning about losing the analog gauges . . . those that embrace forward movement in technology will quickly come to appreciate and enjoy the digital tachometer and shift point indicator in HUD.

///AVM

[richard in NC]

Originally Posted by ///AVM

Yes Poochie, if you do not have M Mode HUD activated to show tachometer, the cascading shift point monitor will be displayed in the gauge cluster (between the two tachometers). . . as described in the manual pic I showed in post #2619.

The cascading shift point monitor views are different between gauge cluster and HUD, but the same information is presented. Nonetheless, the beauty of having the shift monitor in HUD is that you do not have to divert your field of gaze from the road (to visualize in gauge cluster).

Trust me, I know the M2 enthusiast crowd and fact that there are going to be a lot of 'traditionalists' bitching and moaning about losing the analog gauges . . . those that embrace forward movement in technology will quickly come to appreciate and enjoy the digital tachometer and shift point indicator in HUD.

///AVM

I want my cake and eat it too. HUD with tach and shift point indicator.
But traditional looking digital gauges. They can put the shift point indicator just inside the RPM numbers like in some M models.

PS: I feel the ONLY reason BMW went with the new digital gauge display is to create room in between them for the map to match the Audi display. They wanted to be different, so as not to be an exact copy.

Personally, with a HUD showing nav directions, I don't want or need a big map between the gauges. But I have found to like the "arrow display" in the right side screen in the iDrive 6/Nav display. It shows the next turn, and you can scroll through all turns if desired. Very useful with a bunch of turns coming up, and not wanting the center gauge display in the M2 to show the turns.

[///AVM]

Thank you all have been PMing me . . . I have not been ignoring anyone.

Truth be told, I do not feel comfortable with the common denominator question . . . whether I think the G80C is better than the F87C?

‘Better’ is completely subjective and dependent upon what each individual needs and/or wants. . . so what I consider ‘better’ bears little meaning to anyone except me.

In a prior post (#2619) I pointed out some G80C features I particularly enjoy that are not available with the F87C . . . but seem likely to be available as standard or options in the G87.

Just as the S55 is a highlight in the F87C, so is the S58 in the G80C. By all accounts presented to date, seems the S58 will be available in the G87 straight out of the box. I can tell you this will be a stunning combination . . . provided BMW does not do some ‘funky’ tune, such as neutering the top of the rev band like they did with the F87C – probably my biggest gripe with the F87C.

I moved from the F87C into the G80C because I wanted to experience the performance of an ///M icon. My expectations have been exceeded and I am extremely satisfied with my purchase decision.

I realize there are many other factors that variably go into a car purchase decision and carry different weight by each individual. For example, I am not a fan of the G80C design architecture, particularly the front grille, domed front wheel arches; and overall size in terms of road presence. I easily look past these visual shortcomings in favor of performance offered . . . others may not.

Poochie is one who comes to mind when it comes to new technology. This is likely important to many others as well. I expressed how HUD is a huge favorite of mine, given how it has positively impacted my performance experience. Other than that, the F87C has way more technology than I ever used . . . and the G80C has even more.

Aside from performance, design architecture (aesthetics) and technology, price is most always a consideration. I doubt I will ever encounter a car that offers more of what I am after than the F87C offers for $60K. My G80C MRSP was north of $90K and, yes, it offers ‘more’ . . . $30K+ more toward overall enjoyment?

So, ultimately, I think the question people are, or should be asking is whether they should move into a G80/82, or hold out for the G87? . . . or simply keep the F87C until its wheels fall off?

It all comes down to each individual weighing the above considerations . . . and realizing the G87 most individuals will want is going to come at a price well north of $60K. If one is honest with themselves about what is important to THEM and lands on the G80/82, then I cannot see anything but a pleasurable ownership experience. Likewise, I have little doubt the G87 will offer a similarly favorable ownership experience.

///AVM

[///AVM]

Poochie

Speaking of technology, here you go brother . . . Merry Christmas!

G80/82 Reference Manual

I think this should keep you busy for a while. Please let us know what you dig up anything that might be of special interest.

///AVM

[///AVM]

Within the G80/82 Reference Manual noted in above post, I was able to look up the Shift Point display that included some pics I could not previously find.

NOTE: There are three modes: ROAD, SPORT and TRACK. You can control what you display in the gauge cluster and HUD according to mode selected, as well as some options you can select for each individual mode.

Pic 1 (top) shows SPORT M Mode in the gauge cluster. View includes left and right tachometers with central cascading Shift Point display. You can select to leave spaces left and right of the tachometers ‘empty’ or choose from one of three performance clusters (pic 2, middle) to be displayed on either left or right.

If you choose to display SPORT M Mode in HUD (pic 3, bottom), then the cascading Shift Point will be displayed above the tachometer. The Shift Point display appears once you get above a certain RPM (~4K) AND is throttle dependent. Namely, if you apply modest throttle and ascend rev band relatively slowly, the Shift Point display will not appear.

Also in pic 3 (HUD SPORT M Mode), you will notice the navigation map is displayed. You can choose whether or not you want that displayed in HUD (or gauge cluster) for ROAD and SPORT modes. If you are not using navigation, obviously it would not be displayed regardless of whether you select it or not.

Anyway, this is just the tip of the tip of the iceberg with all this technology. I only wanted to re-visit the topic to kind of wrap up prior posts regarding HUD with tachometer and cascading Shift Point display.

///AVM

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by ///AVM

Poochie

Speaking of technology, here you go brother . . . Merry Christmas!

G80/82 Reference Manual

I think this should keep you busy for a while. Please let us know what you dig up anything that might be of special interest.

///AVM

Nice find and gracias!

I can't view the PDF on my phone, for some strange reason, so I had to whip out my laptop to be able see it. Which, I usually only reserve usage for downloading hardcore porn but this is just as sexually exciting