07-09-2022, 09:37 PM | #1 |
Second Lieutenant
120
Rep 217
Posts |
Issues 3>2 Downshifting 6MT
I'm just getting into HPDE, and I've only done 10 days (3 in my M2), so I'm still making mistakes and learning lots. On my last track day I was struggling with my 3>2 downshift. I'm at a slow enough speed, I'm shifting very methodically and not de-clutching too early, but there were more than a few times were the transmission wouldn't let me into 2nd...almost like a lockout. I've driven manuals for almost 20 years now and it just seemed odd. I've never had this issue in my 328i 6MT. I do have an Autosolutions SSK, but those shifters seem really well built, so I really doubt it's causing a problem.
A few questions: 1) Any ideas what might be happening here? 2) Are other folks regularly downshifting to 2nd or do you mostly stay in 3rd? 3) I have heard that Mustangs have issues getting into some gears if there is lateral load on the transmission. Anyone experienced that in an M2? 4) What's your hand/arm technique for shifting 3>2? I suppose it's possible I'm getting too far left and getting into the reverse gate?
__________________
2017 F87 M2: MGM, 6MT, AA Tune, Eibach Pro-Kit, Fabspeed Catted Downpipe, Evolution Racewerks FMIC+Chargepipe, Autosolutions SSK, CDV Delete, Vorshlag Plates, PFC-08 pads, Apex EC-7 18x9.5"
2013 E92 328i M-Sport: BSM, 6MT, 3IM+AA Tune, BMW PE, M3 control arms, Eibach Pro-Kit, Bilstein B8, BMW SSK, CDV Delete, Apex EC-7 18x9" |
07-09-2022, 10:56 PM | #2 |
Lieutenant
336
Rep 427
Posts |
I don’t use 2nd at my local tracks, but it may be appropriate where you’re at.
I have experienced difficulty finding 4th from 5th or 3rd from 4th, and especially 3 from 5 when there is a lateral load. Engine and trans mounts are pretty soft, so I wouldn’t be surprised if your #3 is a factor. Could be some influence from the shifter as well, but couldn’t say. Maybe try the 3->2 down shift in a straight(er) line next time if you can and see what happens? I generally avoid down shifting under high lateral loads or I’m extra deliberate in the few places I do. Maybe you can adjust your timing to do the same. |
07-10-2022, 01:48 AM | #3 |
Brigadier General
3989
Rep 3,409
Posts |
It's relatively common if you're shifting under lateral load with e9x, but I've also heard of it with M2C friends. Can upgrade motor mounts, transmission mounts, or make sure to shift while braking before entry. Stiffer motor mounts were significant improvement.
__________________
Not a Doctor, those are just my initials.
|
Appreciate
1
fleetfoot120.00 |
07-10-2022, 10:26 AM | #4 |
Second Lieutenant
120
Rep 217
Posts |
Great feedback, and I'm glad it's not just me. I only need 2nd gear for turn 1 at Atlanta Motorsports Park (L about 120 degrees). As I get quicker, I'm sure I'll be going fast enough for 3rd gear to be appropriate.
One other question: when my hands are on the steering wheel, my elbows are tucked in by my sides (inside the seat bolsters). However when I go to shift, it seems like my shift action is more precise if I move my right elbow outside the bolster (over the sliding armrest) so my forearm is in a straight line to the shifter rather than angled to the right. I essentially HAVE to do this when shifting into 2nd or 4th since my elbow would get jammed into the seat bolster otherwise. Do you all move your elbow outside the seat bolster when shifting?
__________________
2017 F87 M2: MGM, 6MT, AA Tune, Eibach Pro-Kit, Fabspeed Catted Downpipe, Evolution Racewerks FMIC+Chargepipe, Autosolutions SSK, CDV Delete, Vorshlag Plates, PFC-08 pads, Apex EC-7 18x9.5"
2013 E92 328i M-Sport: BSM, 6MT, 3IM+AA Tune, BMW PE, M3 control arms, Eibach Pro-Kit, Bilstein B8, BMW SSK, CDV Delete, Apex EC-7 18x9" |
Appreciate
0
|
07-10-2022, 10:57 AM | #5 | |
Lieutenant
336
Rep 427
Posts |
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
07-11-2022, 08:38 AM | #7 | |
Lieutenant
518
Rep 582
Posts |
Quote:
Are you driving with any of the electronic aids on? It sounds to me like this is merely the automated rev matching system delaying your ability to shift into a lower gear. As good as it seems on the surface, it's really not a perfect system. It's accurate in rev matching but often times only because it doesn't allow the driver to slot in the lower gear until the sensors see that the revs and engine speeds match. It's easy to replicate and see just street driving. Turn off the nannies and problem solved.
__________________
2017 BMW M2 5Spd, 2007 VW Touareg, 2023 Yamaha MT09 SP
https://www.instagram.com/dvas99/ https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2j..._as=subscriber |
|
Appreciate
0
|
07-11-2022, 05:16 PM | #9 | |
Second Lieutenant
120
Rep 217
Posts |
Quote:
If this is true, would the car essentially prevent you from money-shifting if rev-matching is on? I don't think that's the case based on some of the videos I've seen. But if this were a feature, I'd be majorly relieved. I do drive with rev-matching on. I appreciate the simplicity it brings to braking vs. the experience in my E92 328i.
__________________
2017 F87 M2: MGM, 6MT, AA Tune, Eibach Pro-Kit, Fabspeed Catted Downpipe, Evolution Racewerks FMIC+Chargepipe, Autosolutions SSK, CDV Delete, Vorshlag Plates, PFC-08 pads, Apex EC-7 18x9.5"
2013 E92 328i M-Sport: BSM, 6MT, 3IM+AA Tune, BMW PE, M3 control arms, Eibach Pro-Kit, Bilstein B8, BMW SSK, CDV Delete, Apex EC-7 18x9" |
|
Appreciate
0
|
07-11-2022, 06:03 PM | #10 |
Brigadier General
3989
Rep 3,409
Posts |
It's simple to test, go on the street and while in a straight line aggressively downshift from 3 to 2. Keep it higher on the RPM range to simulate the track. Try it with the various settings on and off.
If no trouble shifting, then it's not you.
__________________
Not a Doctor, those are just my initials.
|
Appreciate
0
|
07-11-2022, 06:42 PM | #11 | |
Private
64
Rep 69
Posts |
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
1
kthor70348.00 |
07-11-2022, 09:00 PM | #12 | |
Private First Class
48
Rep 158
Posts |
Quote:
I haven't been on many tracks recently that need 2nd gear, so haven't experienced the issue lately. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
07-11-2022, 11:53 PM | #13 | |
Major General
7334
Rep 7,298
Posts |
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
07-12-2022, 08:27 AM | #14 | |
Lieutenant
518
Rep 582
Posts |
Quote:
Yeah, I don't think so. I don't know what mechanism is utilized but the auto rev match system clearly doesn't allow me to finish a shift from neutral into x gear until engine and tran speeds match. I've never tried to force it into gear so not sure whether you can still force a shift but there is clearly resistance. I drive on the street in MDM and feel it all the time. 60 + days on track, with everything off, I've never experienced the same thing.
__________________
2017 BMW M2 5Spd, 2007 VW Touareg, 2023 Yamaha MT09 SP
https://www.instagram.com/dvas99/ https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2j..._as=subscriber |
|
Appreciate
0
|
07-12-2022, 10:11 AM | #15 | |
Major General
7334
Rep 7,298
Posts |
Quote:
The OP needs stiffer transmission and/or motor mounts. Common M problem. |
|
07-12-2022, 02:46 PM | #16 | |
Private First Class
78
Rep 127
Posts |
Quote:
https://www.akgmotorsport.com/produc...e92-e93-z3-z4/
__________________
1997 Dakar M3
1999 Cosmos M3 2004 Imola M3 CSL clone 2017 Alpine White M2 Performance Edition |
|
Appreciate
0
|
07-12-2022, 06:29 PM | #18 |
Brigadier General
3989
Rep 3,409
Posts |
Don't get too aggressive with the trans mounts, start with the motor mounts. The harder / solid trans will create a lot of noise and vibration and it's the motor movement that shifts the transmission.
It's very DIY able but a shop might charge 4 hours and alignment? Anyone paid a shop to do motor mounts?
__________________
Not a Doctor, those are just my initials.
|
Appreciate
1
chris7197334.00 |
07-12-2022, 06:33 PM | #19 | |
Lieutenant
518
Rep 582
Posts |
Quote:
Before all of the internet experts come after me, I never said explicitly nor implicitly that the M2 manual has a lock mechanism or can stop a money shift. Which would offer a great peace of mind if that were true. I merely said that I often experience a strong resistance which delays my ability to complete a shift into a lower gear when downshifting while the auto blip is engaged. I don’t try to force past the resistance and thus I don't complete the shift until the resistance goes away - at which point the shifter easily slips into the next gear with the same effort that I had consistently put on the lever. Why is this, I have no idea. In fact, I explicitly replied that I don’t know why that is, i.e. what kind of mechanism is causing this, if any. It could be the resistance of the synchros, or who knows. But it only occurs while driving on the street with auto blip and never when driving with all of the nannies off and rev matching myself and I doubt my car is unique. Motor / transmission mounts seem like a waste of $$. I’ve got over five years of driving my M2 on track with sticky rubber and never experienced any issues shifting on track that would necessitate that type of part replacement. And if the OP is still at the point in their track career of using the electronic aids on track, then they're really not yet pushing things to the limit. But hey, to each their own.
__________________
2017 BMW M2 5Spd, 2007 VW Touareg, 2023 Yamaha MT09 SP
https://www.instagram.com/dvas99/ https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2j..._as=subscriber |
|
Appreciate
0
|
07-12-2022, 07:34 PM | #20 | |
Major General
7334
Rep 7,298
Posts |
Quote:
Anyway, it is pretty much impossible for what you're saying to be true when auto rev match is enabled. The car has zero control of the transmission. You would think it's actually going to be easier to get past the gate, maybe the synchros somehow. I've never heard anyone else on this forum or the F8x forum say this. Last edited by chris719; 07-12-2022 at 07:41 PM.. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
07-12-2022, 07:39 PM | #21 | |
Major General
7334
Rep 7,298
Posts |
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
07-12-2022, 07:42 PM | #22 | |||
Brigadier General
3989
Rep 3,409
Posts |
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
You're definitely right not to jump to spending money! fleetfoot go test it on the street (various settings on / off). Again emphasis on in a straight line which should be the goal anyhow. Try various shifting orientations (palm facing driver side, palm facing down, shifting more with fingers just under the shifter knob, etc). See if you find any improvement. But regardless of your albeit limited experience vs the collective tracking community, the OEM mounts can accommodate enough play when under load that the gates effectively no longer "align".
__________________
Not a Doctor, those are just my initials.
|
|||
Post Reply |
Bookmarks |
|
|