[flybigjet]

Gents--

I've read, and read, and read some more, and my head's basically exploded-- I know it's been covered before, but I'm really looking for a "fire and forget" answer.

Looking for replacement pads for my M2C (stock rotors/calipers) that I can be happy with on the street, but don't have to worry about changing out for a track day as I'm pretty much due a new set of pads. (Honestly? I didn't think the stock M2C pads were all that bad, other than excessive brake dust.)

I have literally almost no time in my life (I only sleep in my own bed about 10 days a month, and Honey Do's kill whatever extra time I have home)-- so changing pads for track days is a bridge too far-- I have to coordinate a month in advance just to get the car Tech'd due to my wacky schedule.

The car (2020 M2C) is a mostly a "Hoon-around/Date Night" toy, but set up for the occasional track day-- MP-S suspension, Milway Street camber plates, slightly lowered, Carbahn chip, AS SSK, SS brake lines, modified intake/cooling, Apex tires w/ MP4S for street, and another set of Apex w/ Cup-2 Connects for the track on stock rotors and calipers. No "racing", just HPDE's/BMWCCA Driver's Schools.

I'm listed as "mid/high-intermediate" on HPDE's-- and am planning on about six events this year.

I've looked at Pagids, Hawks, Ferodo and Porterfields and frankly, the amount of pro's/con's on them is overwhelming. One person loves the pad, another says it's the worst ever. And then, the pads are literally one letter off half the time (R4 v. R4-S for example, and I'm underwater on the subtleties of each). Huminawha?

So. Aggressive Street. Six Track HPDE's a year with the setup above. Stock M2C calipers and rotors (with no intent to change) and about 8000 miles a year (including track days). Excessive noise is Bad from a Minister of War and Finance perspective-- brake dust I can live with if it's equal or less than stock.

Right now, I'm leaning towards the R4-S, but am willing to be convinced otherwise. I have to get hopping as the car goes in for Tech next month and my first track day is about two weeks after that.

Thanks, thanks, thanks.....

R.

[iWayne]

I ran Pagid RS29L (billed as an endurance pad)on the 2NH for street and track as I was too lazy to switch pads back and forth. On the street, there was just a little noise when coming to complete stop though not as loud as ferrodo ds2500/ap brakes I have now. RS29L on the 2NH seemed to have decent cold bite vs ds2500/ap brakes also. On the track, rs29L came up to temp quickly and had decent torque without overheating at the tracks infrequent. That's all first hand experience that I have, if that's any help for you. I have a used rs29L set in the classifieds

[MooMooM2]

This is something I am interested in as well, don’t want to swap pads between street and track (car is a daily but with working from home I am not driving it all that much anyways).

I was thinking ds2500 (track beginner so these probably will be fine for a while) but from looking around seems like there are other options.

Rs29l? Endless me20 or 22?

Obviously a more track oriented pad will put more wear on your rotors but which if these would be the best compromise?

[ZL9M2]

This is easy. There is no such thing as a street/track pad. Anything that is quiet and able operate in its proper heat range with no dust on the street will not be a good track pad. A great track pad will not generally reach its proper temp range on the street and it will not be quiet there either.

So with that - if you use the car on the track - you would just simply need to select a proper track pad, leave installed for street use, and put up with the negatives there. I've used the Pagids but I'm happier with the Perf Frictions. They squeal like crazy on the street but I leave them in most of the time depending on timeframe until next track event.

[ZM2]

The closest I’ve found to a good track pad that is “streetable” is Ferodo DS3.12.

I’m not a fan of Pagid.

PFC is great, but squeals like crazy.

[flybigjet]

Maybe approach it this way?

"A street pad that'll work on a weekend Driver's School/HPDE-- something with a bit better performance than the stock M2C pad?"

[flybigjet]

Good article for the solid-granite brained like me....

https://www.essexparts.com/news-blog...rk-for-control

[flybigjet]

Originally Posted by ZM2

The closest I’ve found to a good track pad that is “streetable” is Ferodo DS3.12.

These..... look like they might fit the bill.

Do you have a front/rear part number?

And/or a recommended source for purchase for an M2C?

TIA--

R.

[flybigjet]

One other question, as I'm reconsidering how to go about this......

I have to change out my wheels before each track day-- that parts not hard. It's the TIME that becomes the issue.

How long does it take to change pads on an M2C? Assuming no re-bleeding or fluid change (that has to be changed within 120 days for Tech anyway).

If it's quick and easy (like Honda brakes, for example), maybe that's a doable thing. If it's a full-day job due to some weird BMW requirement, that's a non-starter.

But, if I'm pulling the wheels off anyway.....

Thanks for the data point.

R.

[MooMooM2]

It looks like it would take an hour or so, check out farkles video. Its not that hard to do just annoying and there is the issue of the bolts, bmw says they are 1 time use but maybe its fine to use more than once it all depends on how comfortable you are with that.

I am personally going to just run a more aggressive pad since ai don’t use the car all that much and go from there. I want to do about 5 track days per year

[PackPride85]

Running aggressive track pads all the time will destroy your rotors. That screeching sound is the track pad doing just that when not warmed up to track temps.

You might be better off getting an aggressive street pad like the ds2500 and not going super hard at the track.

[Maynard]

I run Ferodo DS2500 similar to how you plan to do it and I love them. I don't find them to be that loud, but others complain mightily; I think it is about driving style (some people can't even live w/ the stock pads b/c of noise, so they must be doing s/t to make them squeal more than I do). Changing pads on the M2C brakes is much longer than w/the older OG style - gotta pull calipers in front, swap backing plates on rear. Mine did not last thru 7 weekends, but 3 of those were open tracking so a lot more driving than usual (and I'm a ham-footed mid-level, so could probably have gone easier on them).

[OG Shark]

In the Ferodo lineup the 2500 is the closest to a street/track pad. The 1.11 & 3.12 are considered track pads but certainly nothing stopping someone from running them on the street. The 1.11 however can squeal something fierce - like everyone stops and grabs their ears when you slow down fierce. The 3.12 has a lot of initial bite - great for a high grip situation on track but maybe not quite as fun on the street (personal preference here). They will also wear down the discs quicker than any of the others. But significantly less squeal than the 1.11.

Of those 3 the 2500 does have the friendliest street manners and they can be tracked. They will not withstand the higher temp ranges that the 1.11 & 3.12 will - but if you feel like the oem pads were sufficient these should handle the task. Dust will still be there (hard to eliminate with these requirements) and they can get a bit of squeal from time to time. You can use this when installing - BG Stop Squeal - to help control the noise.

Also fluid - would recommend going with either Castrol SRF or Endless 650 if you haven't already. Just as important to run a good fluid as a good pad.

That being said when it comes to brakes I prefer to run a dedicated track pad and separate street pad (no this is not just because we are a dealer for Essex and want to sell more Ferodo pads ). The M2C is a heavy car & capable of some good speed & grip out of the box - depending on one's driving style and the track characteristics it is possible to overwhelm the brakes in stock form. If you start leaning on it pretty hard - and especially with any level of DSC on - it is nice having the safety net of additional fade resistance that a true track pad provides. On a modified car this safety net becomes more of a necessary tolerance range needed for the brakes to properly function in. After a bit of practice pad changes can be done in about an hour or so (if pretty efficient) and I feel this time is well worth it. Also gives you a bit more time with your eyes on the brakes (and suspension) to help note if there are any issues that need to be addressed. And you know exact thickness of the pads before and after. In Ferodo the 1.11on track & 2500 on the street is a great combo to swap back & forth on - for a dual duty car this is my preferred setup. It can be a bit of a pain doing these pad swaps before & after - but I definitely prefer that time spent over fading brakes on the track.

[ZM2]

A couple of thoughts on the last few comments.

My DS2500s rarely squeal, but I've found the DS3.12 actually squeals even less. Kinda crazy since it's such a good track pad.

The 3.12 also doesn't chew down rotors as quickly as the Uno, 1.11, PFC's, Pagid, etc. All of those are rotor killers. I've gone thru 25+ sets of pads over the last 5+ years on my M2 and the 3.12 has had the least rotor wear.

The 3.12 also has the best pedal feel, IMO. Uno is too grabby, 1.11 is too "hard" and not great feel, Pagid is horrible in terms of feel, PFC 08 is like 1.11, and PFC 11 is great. 3.12 & PFC 11 are my favs for feel, but man, those PFC's are so loud.

If you're a halfway aggressive braker on track, the DS2500 isn't enough. They'll start to fade and I've actually cracked one on WGI as a dry line started to form once a top layer of snow was cleared from the track. I figured they'd be fine in the snow, but as soon as a tire's width of dry pavement appeared, they quickly overheated and failed on me.

Based on everything mentioned and the fact that M2C pads aren't as easy to change as OG (or AP Racing) calipers, I'd run the DS3.12 full time. IDK if the 3.12 comes it the M2C pad shape, but www.bestbrakes.com generally has the best pricing.

[OG Shark]

Originally Posted by ZM2

A couple of thoughts on the last few comments.

My DS2500s rarely squeal, but I've found the DS3.12 actually squeals even less. Kinda crazy since it's such a good track pad.

The 3.12 also doesn't chew down rotors as quickly as the Uno, 1.11, PFC's, Pagid, etc. All of those are rotor killers. I've gone thru 25+ sets of pads over the last 5+ years on my M2 and the 3.12 has had the least rotor wear.

The 3.12 also has the best pedal feel, IMO. Uno is too grabby, 1.11 is too "hard" and not great feel, Pagid is horrible in terms of feel, PFC 08 is like 1.11, and PFC 11 is great. 3.12 & PFC 11 are my favs for feel, but man, those PFC's are so loud.

If you're a halfway aggressive braker on track, the DS2500 isn't enough. They'll start to fade and I've actually cracked one on WGI as a dry line started to form once a top layer of snow was cleared from the track. I figured they'd be fine in the snow, but as soon as a tire's width of dry pavement appeared, they quickly overheated and failed on me.

Based on everything mentioned and the fact that M2C pads aren't as easy to change as OG (or AP Racing) calipers, I'd run the DS3.12 full time. IDK if the 3.12 comes it the M2C pad shape, but www.bestbrakes.com generally has the best pricing.

I have not seen the M2C front pad shape (Ferodo 4712) available in the 3.12

[ZM2]

Originally Posted by OG Shark

I have not seen the M2C front pad shape (Ferodo 4712) available in the 3.12

Another reason to go AP's.

But seriously, the DS3.12 is the only track pad I've run that I would be OK using for daily driving. If that's not an option on the M2C brakes, then I'd just go between the DS2500 for the street and DS1.11 for the track and maybe the 1.11/2500 combo that OG Shark mentioned since the rear pads don't wear very quickly.

The best thing about switching bn the Ferodo's is the compounds are similar enough no rebedding is needed.

[OG Shark]

Originally Posted by ZM2

Another reason to go AP's.

Indeed...

I love the 3.12 but couldn't imagine it on a street car. Just like anything I'm sure you get used to the feel but man that initial bite is just something. And I also don't understand the lack of squeal for a track pad - crazy especially when the 1.11 is one of the worst offenders.

And to clarify on the 1.11/2500 combo thing - meant like you were saying changing between 1.11 on the track & 2500 on the street as the combo - not staggered 1.11 front 2500 rear if it came across that way. I would not want to run any 1.11 on the street at all due to the squeal. I also would prefer to match compounds front to rear on the track.

[ZM2]

Originally Posted by OG Shark

Indeed...

I love the 3.12 but couldn't imagine it on a street car. Just like anything I'm sure you get used to the feel but man that initial bite is just something. And I also don't understand the lack of squeal for a track pad - crazy especially when the 1.11 is one of the worst offenders.

And to clarify on the 1.11/2500 combo thing - meant like you were saying changing between 1.11 on the track & 2500 on the street as the combo - not staggered 1.11 front 2500 rear if it came across that way. I would not want to run any 1.11 on the street at all due to the squeal. I also would prefer to match compounds front to rear on the track.

Ahh gotcha.

Completely agree--1.11 would be horribly annoying to run on the street, and I also prefer to match F/R pad compounds.

[flybigjet]

I should clarify when I say "Track", I specifically mean four 20 min sessions in a day, with around 90 minutes between sessions.

I'm planning 6-8 of those days per year.

Still pondering between hybrid and dedicated pads, but it sounds like the DS2500 might fit the bill?

Questions:

1. Is there a notable between stock M2C Pads and the 2500's? i.e. is this a worthwhile upgrade?

2. Stock backing plates on the 2500's? Yes/no?

3. Brake fluid-- thoughts on Motul 600? That's what my shop recommended, and since the owner is a former National Champion, I assume he knows his stuff (and he's very engaged in his shop)?

Again, thanks to all.

R.

[5.M0NSTER]

Hawk DTC-60 is surprisingly quiet on the street, and great on track. It is hard on the rotors though.

Depending on how hard you push in the brake zones, 2500 might not be enough pad at some point. Depends on your driving style.

I gave up on one dual duty pad a while ago. Now I just drive with DTC-60s for most of the season, knowing that it's costing me rotor life. But it saves me time, and time IS money ... so evens out :-)

[OG Shark]

Originally Posted by flybigjet

I should clarify when I say "Track", I specifically mean four 20 min sessions in a day, with around 90 minutes between sessions.

I'm planning 6-8 of those days per year.

Still pondering between hybrid and dedicated pads, but it sounds like the DS2500 might fit the bill?

Questions:

1. Is there a notable between stock M2C Pads and the 2500's? i.e. is this a worthwhile upgrade?

2. Stock backing plates on the 2500's? Yes/no?

3. Brake fluid-- thoughts on Motul 600? That's what my shop recommended, and since the owner is a former National Champion, I assume he knows his stuff (and he's very engaged in his shop)?

Again, thanks to all.

R.

I think we are all on the same page as you for what you are considering "track" - so all the recs should be with that in mind.

As far as the 2500 fitting the bill - if the oem pad has been sufficient the 2500 will be an improvement on that. All things being equal - you will have a bit more room to grow with the 2500 on the track. But I agree with ZM2 - they have a ceiling that the M2C is able to reach with decent pace behind the wheel and I would much rather see a more track oriented pad being used than the 2500. But if you have been ok with the oem pad the 2500 would probably be the choice if you are looking for one dual duty solution (and would prefer the 2500 over oem). Just be aware & on the lookout for signs of fade as you get quicker on track (and/or drive different tracks).

I like Motul for engine oil (its my go to) but prefer either Castrol or Endless for the brakes. I believe they are both worth the minimal initial price increase over Motul.

[flybigjet]

So, I've got to make a decision soon, and am vacillating between the Porterfield R4-S and the Ferodo DS2500.

Or, a dedicated track pad that won't eat my stock rotors alive. But this seems to maybe be overkill at this point?

Sigh. I really don't know which way to jump-- paralysis by analysis-- I was looking at pad reviews whenever I had a spare moment today.

The reviews drive me nuts. Driver X-- Pad A sucks. Pad B is amazing. Driver Y-- Pad B sucks. Pad A is amazing. Driver Z-- Brakes are for pussies. Just stick with wet cardboard in place of pads.

Ugh. Any guidance?