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      01-07-2019, 09:23 AM   #45
jritt@essex
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Every painted or powder coated caliper we've ever seen from every manufacturer will exhibit color shift when exposed to enough heat on a road course. Paint and powder also don't play nice with brake fluid. That's why competition calipers are anodized or nickel plated. Those finishes hold up to heat and brake fluid and maintain their look.

Here is a pic of our customer's OEM front calipers after a very short time on track, sitting next to our anodized AP Racing Pro5000R Radi-CALs. You can see how green the outer halves are:



You can see a great example of a completely cooked OEM caliper off a Camaro SS 1LE in this video we made.


If you're tracking your car and don't want your OEM calipers to look thrashed when you sell the car, you either need to A) Get a front brake kit and remove the front calipers (the rears will likely never see enough heat to have a major color shift) or B) Plan to repaint or replace them when you sell the car.

People are many times quick to dismiss a big brake kit as too expensive, but they don't factor the destruction of their OEM parts and the equity of the kit into their long-term decision. For example, if you shelve your OEM brake parts when you get your car in pristine condition, that's about $2,000 worth of parts that you won't have to buy when you sell the car ($700 per front caliper, and $600 for the front disc pair).

If you purchase one of our front brake kits for $4,400, run it for three years and sell it for $2700 (a typical used sale price), you've sunk $1700 into the kit. When it comes time to sell your car, you sell our brake kit and have $2700 coming to you, and you have fresh OEM parts on your garage shelf ready to drop on the car. If you just destroy the OEM calipers and need to buy fresh parts to sell the car, you have to pay $2,000 at the time of sale. The difference between $2700 coming in or $2,000 going out at the time of sale is substantial. Nobody likes dumping money into something they're about to sell! In the interim three years, you also get to enjoy all the benefits of the brake kit: Big unsprung weight savings, better pedal feel, more pad options, slower burn rate on pads and discs, etc.

People don't always think this scenario through, but it's something our brake kit customers mention to us all the time. In most cases they tell us our systems pay for themselves over a few years in pad and disc savings alone, because the last so much longer vs. OEM.

I'd imagine painting calipers is a few hundred bucks, but you also have to factor in rebuild, fresh seals, etc. Also, is the new owner going to know they were repainted? How good will the new finish be, etc.? That's obviously the most economical route, but there are also some potential issues with that route.
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      01-10-2019, 10:40 AM   #46
Proctor750
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jritt@essex View Post
Every painted or powder coated caliper we've ever seen from every manufacturer will exhibit color shift when exposed to enough heat on a road course. Paint and powder also don't play nice with brake fluid. That's why competition calipers are anodized or nickel plated. Those finishes hold up to heat and brake fluid and maintain their look.

Here is a pic of our customer's OEM front calipers after a very short time on track, sitting next to our anodized AP Racing Pro5000R Radi-CALs. You can see how green the outer halves are:



You can see a great example of a completely cooked OEM caliper off a Camaro SS 1LE in this video we made.


If you're tracking your car and don't want your OEM calipers to look thrashed when you sell the car, you either need to A) Get a front brake kit and remove the front calipers (the rears will likely never see enough heat to have a major color shift) or B) Plan to repaint or replace them when you sell the car.

People are many times quick to dismiss a big brake kit as too expensive, but they don't factor the destruction of their OEM parts and the equity of the kit into their long-term decision. For example, if you shelve your OEM brake parts when you get your car in pristine condition, that's about $2,000 worth of parts that you won't have to buy when you sell the car ($700 per front caliper, and $600 for the front disc pair).

If you purchase one of our front brake kits for $4,400, run it for three years and sell it for $2700 (a typical used sale price), you've sunk $1700 into the kit. When it comes time to sell your car, you sell our brake kit and have $2700 coming to you, and you have fresh OEM parts on your garage shelf ready to drop on the car. If you just destroy the OEM calipers and need to buy fresh parts to sell the car, you have to pay $2,000 at the time of sale. The difference between $2700 coming in or $2,000 going out at the time of sale is substantial. Nobody likes dumping money into something they're about to sell! In the interim three years, you also get to enjoy all the benefits of the brake kit: Big unsprung weight savings, better pedal feel, more pad options, slower burn rate on pads and discs, etc.

People don't always think this scenario through, but it's something our brake kit customers mention to us all the time. In most cases they tell us our systems pay for themselves over a few years in pad and disc savings alone, because the last so much longer vs. OEM.

I'd imagine painting calipers is a few hundred bucks, but you also have to factor in rebuild, fresh seals, etc. Also, is the new owner going to know they were repainted? How good will the new finish be, etc.? That's obviously the most economical route, but there are also some potential issues with that route.

While I do agree with this mentality I still find it difficult to make a decision for the M2C specifically. I had a long talk with a brembo rep to make things more obfuscated.

The 2NH are still sort of uncharted territory and albeit the weight savings alone justify the purchase of AP, some people like myself will thrash the car on track AND also drive it year round in all weather.

The 2NH brembo's are much larger than the original M2 brakes which should help a lot with heat dissipation. They do appear to have stainless pistons though not vented like AP.
They do have very high braking torque for the size of the car (think M5/X6M - which AP i'm sure matches closely).
They are painted which is great for road salt and grime vs anodizing. I think they would work fine as a dual purpose setup with the obvious downside being weight and wheel option limitations (and cooked boots).

I'm a glutton for punishment so I think I will be a guinea pig for the 2NH truck brakes on track but the AP front kit is VERY tempting if I didn't daily the car so much.

I'm having the same dilemma with Ohlins R/T (street) vs MCS (track) suspension setup...

Can't always have your cake and eat it too. If it were a weekend track rat only I would not even hesitate. I really do love the AP kit.
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      01-10-2019, 10:56 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Proctor750 View Post
While I do agree with this mentality I still find it difficult to make a decision for the M2C specifically. I had a long talk with a brembo rep to make things more obfuscated.

The 2NH are still sort of uncharted territory and albeit the weight savings alone justify the purchase of AP, some people like myself will thrash the car on track AND also drive it year round in all weather.

The 2NH brembo's are much larger than the original M2 brakes which should help a lot with heat dissipation. They do appear to have stainless pistons though not vented like AP.
They do have very high braking torque for the size of the car (think M5/X6M - which AP i'm sure matches closely).
They are painted which is great for road salt and grime vs anodizing. I think they would work fine as a dual purpose setup with the obvious downside being weight and wheel option limitations (and cooked boots).

I'm a glutton for punishment so I think I will be a guinea pig for the 2NH truck brakes on track but the AP front kit is VERY tempting if I didn't daily the car so much.

I'm having the same dilemma with Ohlins R/T (street) vs MCS (track) suspension setup...

Can't always have your cake and eat it too. If it were a weekend track rat only I would not even hesitate. I really do love the AP kit.

Thanks! You make a lot of good points, and I like the 'truck brakes' label.
There is no doubt that the 2NH brakes are going to take a beating much better than the base brakes will. The unsprung weight difference is definitely big, and that goes for both the brakes themselves and 18" vs. 19" or larger wheels. Also, tire compound availability in 18 vs. 19 sizes, and tire cost in 18 vs. 19 are also a factor. Pad compound choice and availability would be another big one for anyone tracking the car. The AP calipers have pretty much limitless pad compound options, whereas options in the OEM shapes are quite limited.

These situations are always compromises, so each person will ultimately need to determine where they'll get the greatest ROI. Thanks for the level-headed discussion.
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      04-25-2020, 05:59 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaosHunter View Post
So then what ? Just accept that they are green ?
you can always repaint them



Can you share the decal size? The m logo on mine is fading
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