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M2 Technical Topics > N55 Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust / Bolt-ons / Tuning > BMW M2 N55 Uses Different Turbo Part Than M235i and X4 M40i

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      04-12-2016, 08:38 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OrangeCrush
There is a thread around here somewhere showing a different part number from both the M235i and X4 turbos.
It was like a year ago.. We'll probably
Like 35 days ago..
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      04-12-2016, 08:43 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
Whatev. I knew months ago. So much doubt that the M engineers will come thru and they always do...
Did you bother to post your info?
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      04-12-2016, 08:47 PM   #69
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3 different variants of the N54 :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_N54
They only differ in software.

You can have completely different curves (HP and Torque) just by playing with air flow and fueling along with target boost.

You guys claim to know engines and insist there must be a real HW difference. 740 used the same engine as the 1M.
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      04-12-2016, 08:50 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zenmaster
Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
Whatev. I knew months ago. So much doubt that the M engineers will come thru and they always do...
Did you bother to post your info?
- The literature from BMW described the new turbo and wastegate design

@Nine lives posted the entire info in this thread and it raged into closed deck but the key is

" M2s turbocharger is integrated into the exhaust manifold "

- the turbo part number was found to be different a while ago

- the Dyno chart post by BMW shows a higher revving top end

- the only way to improve on the M235 would be via displacement , software , or a new turbo and we know that displacement isn't it and we know that n55 didn't have that much headroom to make such a big jump in power from 332 to 370 hp with software alone.

- finally , test drivers are referring to the better, snappier throttle response

I'm sure some will continue to doubt reality until a tuner says something or we see the parts side by side :
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      04-12-2016, 08:57 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by techwhiz View Post
3 different variants of the N54 :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_N54
They only differ in software.

You can have completely different curves (HP and Torque) just by playing with air flow and fueling along with target boost.

You guys claim to know engines and insist there must be a real HW difference. 740 used the same engine as the 1M.
The N55 power output for given boost is well known in detail. You can increase air intake some, which has been noted as done. But if you use the same turbo part as on the M235i, for example, you can't reach M2 HP numbers and stay within its efficiency zone by increasing boost. Anyway, we don't have to speculate for much longer as you can easily measure power output for a given boost level.
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      04-12-2016, 09:07 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
- The literature from BMW described the new turbo and wastegate design

@Nine lives posted the entire info in this thread and it raged into closed deck but the key is

" M2s turbocharger is integrated into the exhaust manifold "

- the turbo part number was found to be different a while ago

- the Dyno chart post by BMW shows a higher revving top end

- the only way to improve on the M235 would be via displacement , software , or a new turbo and we know that displacement isn't it and we know that n55 didn't have that much headroom to make such a big jump in power from 332 to 370 hp with software alone.

- finally , test drivers are referring to the better, snappier throttle response

I'm sure some will continue to doubt reality until a tuner says something or we see the parts side by side :
OK, so you are saying without the part number, the answer was obvious...I knew it all along as well and posted my rationale months ago as well. BTW, half the things on your list don't imply different turbo.
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      04-12-2016, 09:23 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zenmaster
Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
- The literature from BMW described the new turbo and wastegate design

@Nine lives posted the entire info in this thread and it raged into closed deck but the key is

" M2s turbocharger is integrated into the exhaust manifold "

- the turbo part number was found to be different a while ago

- the Dyno chart post by BMW shows a higher revving top end

- the only way to improve on the M235 would be via displacement , software , or a new turbo and we know that displacement isn't it and we know that n55 didn't have that much headroom to make such a big jump in power from 332 to 370 hp with software alone.

- finally , test drivers are referring to the better, snappier throttle response

I'm sure some will continue to doubt reality until a tuner says something or we see the parts side by side :
OK, so you are saying without the part number, the answer was obvious...I knew it all along as well and posted my rationale months ago as well. BTW, half the things on your list don't imply different turbo.
Yes and neither does " I have a little faith in M"

An M brand manager did once say " no more dogmas" ...
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      04-12-2016, 09:54 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ASAP View Post
It does indeed... which is weird as no other N55 is closed deck... but a closed deck to me implies a major engine difference, as in this isn't an N55... but why then is it still called an N55?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ASAP View Post
Again... dead on... I think something is not right here...
See post# 56.

Some have wondered why no "S" denotation with the many S55 parts used in the motor.
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      04-12-2016, 11:19 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaryTheLabelGuy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boss330 View Post
Agreed that if it was a closed deck block it would have made more sense to use the S55 block. And that would have been mentioned in the litterature. But they only mention S55 pistons...

However, calling it a S55B20 would not work with the system BMW has for engine nomenclature. The 30 part denotes displacement in liters and as long as the M2 engine is a 3 liter it has to be a 30 as well.

Examples:

S52B30 - E36 M3 3.0
S52B32 - E36 M3 3.2
S54B32 - E46 M3 3.2
N53B25 - multiple models 2.5 liter
N53B30 - multiple models 3.0 liter
S38B36 - E34 M5 3.6
S38B38 - E34 M5 3.8
S63B44 - F10 M5 4.4
S65B40 - E9x M3 4.0
S65B44 - E92 M3 GTS 4.4
That was a typo. I fixed it.
The S55B302 wouldn't work either...

The 7th and 8th position is used to denote power level of the engine and BMW has a letter combination that describes this.

But if they had used a S55 block I agree with you that it would have made more sense to call it a S55B30xx (don't have the key to the combination here right now)
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      04-13-2016, 12:48 AM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PrematureApex
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boss330 View Post
The logic is quite simple: It's a N55 and N55 have open deck blocks... We have BMW litterature stating that the N55 indeed is an open deck block! So by default a N55 is a open deck block unless it specifically is said it's a new block or a closed deck block.

And it's not mentioned in the tech training docs like it was on the S55, which made a point about detailing that, unlike the N55 open deck block, the S55 has a closed deck block.

But, yes it has been written a few places that it has a closed deck. But it's NOT mentioned in the official press release nor in the tech training docs. And a new engine block is quite a big thing... They mention S55 pistons and other bits and pieces. But NOTHING about a larger/different turbo nor new engine block with a closed deck design...
It's a new block. Don't know how many places you need to read that in order to consider it established.
BMW HQ or BMW M does NOT mention a new block anywhere in their press release or tech training docs...

It's only on the BMW USA website it's mentioned. A website that also had wrong information when the F8x M3/4 was released AFAIK...

I prefer to rely on the German BMW hq and M info available...
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      04-13-2016, 12:54 AM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster
Quote:
Originally Posted by zenmaster
Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
Whatev. I knew months ago. So much doubt that the M engineers will come thru and they always do...
Did you bother to post your info?
- The literature from BMW described the new turbo and wastegate design

@Nine lives posted the entire info in this thread and it raged into closed deck but the key is

" M2s turbocharger is integrated into the exhaust manifold "

- the turbo part number was found to be different a while ago

- the Dyno chart post by BMW shows a higher revving top end

- the only way to improve on the M235 would be via displacement , software , or a new turbo and we know that displacement isn't it and we know that n55 didn't have that much headroom to make such a big jump in power from 332 to 370 hp with software alone.

- finally , test drivers are referring to the better, snappier throttle response

I'm sure some will continue to doubt reality until a tuner says something or we see the parts side by side :
All N55 engines have the turbo integrated into the exhaust manifold, so that isn't different for the M2 version of the N55 engine...
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      04-13-2016, 01:14 AM   #78
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I would be hard pressed to believe that this is an S55 block.

I do recall early in some tech interviews M saying that the original idea was to stuff the F8x M3/M4 S55 into the M2, but the bill was too high, so they had to scale back a touch. The block would almost certainly have been too expensive to fit within the price point.

My guess is that we have an improved intake, exhaust/turbo combination (maybe only to support overboost), S55 pistons to take the extra boost pressure, and a tune to suit. That's probably about it.

I'm also not of the opinion that a non-S series engine makes it a lesser M, any more than the North America E36 M3 was a lesser M because of the S52. These arguments get ridiculous. I don't see anyone saying the 1M isn't an M because it uses the N54. Then again, I don't hang around forums much, so maybe people were saying that at the time.
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      04-13-2016, 01:28 AM   #79
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Good to know. Thanks.
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      04-13-2016, 02:04 AM   #80
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Have to check if the turbo from B-series is the same on N, may assume ?
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      04-13-2016, 04:58 AM   #81
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      04-13-2016, 05:04 AM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boss330 View Post
BMW HQ or BMW M does NOT mention a new block anywhere in their press release or tech training docs...

It's only on the BMW USA website it's mentioned. A website that also had wrong information when the F8x M3/4 was released AFAIK...

I prefer to rely on the German BMW hq and M info available...
For what it's worth, they do have a section dedicated to the closed deck. Could it be just a copy paste thing? Maybe.
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      04-13-2016, 05:11 AM   #83
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Closed Deck: Check

Close Thread?

Cheers
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      04-13-2016, 06:12 AM   #84
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There were references to adaptive suspension in BMW material on the M2. Didn't make it true.
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      04-13-2016, 07:27 AM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by techwhiz View Post
3 different variants of the N54 :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_N54
They only differ in software.

You can have completely different curves (HP and Torque) just by playing with air flow and fueling along with target boost.

You guys claim to know engines and insist there must be a real HW difference. 740 used the same engine as the 1M.
There were confirmed minor differences between the variants including piston rings, tolerances, fly wheels, software, etc. The 1M T0 model specifically had different piston rings, fly wheel, cats, valve cover (the M badge adds +100 hp lol) and extra auxiliary water pump than the other T0 version. Also, apparently BMW is "claiming" the turbos are different - perhaps just to deny warranty claims.
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      04-13-2016, 07:45 AM   #86
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Slow news day...really who cares? This info will not change people from wanting to buy this car or not. Tomorrow's headline it turns out that the n55 engine used longer screws than the n54....
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      04-13-2016, 07:49 AM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boss330 View Post

I prefer to rely on the German BMW hq and M info available...
Yes, but again, those sources SAY NOTHING. That is NOT the same as those sources saying it's an open block.

You can't make that logic leap.

We have no conflicting information. The only sources that specify the configuration of the block all say the same thing.

You have nothing to rely on.
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      04-13-2016, 07:59 AM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
- The literature from BMW described the new turbo and wastegate design

@Nine lives posted the entire info in this thread and it raged into closed deck but the key is

" M2s turbocharger is integrated into the exhaust manifold "
All N55 turbos are integrated into the manifold.

Edit, covered above.


Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post

- the Dyno chart post by BMW shows a higher revving top end
That's perhaps more telling. The standard N55 turbo is seriously running out of steam early in the rev range.

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post


- finally , test drivers are referring to the better, snappier throttle response

I'm sure some will continue to doubt reality until a tuner says something or we see the parts side by side :
?

But you wouldn't have both. If the turbo is larger, it would have more lag, and slightly worse throttle response.
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