BMW M2 Dyno Figures / Numbers

Nine Lives · 04-08-2016, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by allthatisntnow

For some perspective, I had my m235i dynoed on a Dyno Dynamics at sea level in a 10C ambient room and got 316hp (crank that is, 266 hp wheel adjusted) stock running winter tyres (no where near ideal admittedly) that did need to cool down between runs.

With JB4 running map 2 on 93 octane fuel it was putting out 349.6 hp (crank) and 381.2 lb-ft of torque (crank).

Its going back on soon with summer tyres and sport cat. Will report back on this.

I think people may confuse correct/ realistic with overinflated "wheel horsepower" numbers that other dynos are set up to produce. Bigger is always better right?

Was this at the Performance Centre by any chance ? Where their dyno is reputably a bit of a heart breaker

Anyhow I'm quite surprised at the JB'd crank figure,thought they always put out more than that.

allthatisntnow · 04-08-2016, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nine Lives

Was this at the Performance Centre by any chance ? Where their dyno is reputably a bit of a heart breaker

Anyhow I'm quite surprised at the JB'd crank figure,thought they always put out more than that.

It was indeed. Going back in on Wednesday for a more representative run with PSS's on and getting a 200 cell cat fitted. They advised against me going on with the winter tyres - PA4s (you could smell the rubber when it heated up) and they seemed far more disappointed with the results than i was. On road the car feels and performs great, so no complaints whatsoever.

My initial figures are probably a good 5-10% out owing to the tyres alone. Pretty much all of the m135i/m235i's they dyno hit near 330hp crank and 330 lb-ft crank stock.

MickAv8r · 04-08-2016, 10:36 AM

TFL can't test cars for shit. They literally have no fucking clue what they are doing.

The turbo should correct for the altitude, however they are running shit gas so the car is pulling the timing like crazy to protect the engine. Run proper 93 octane and do a proper pull and I think you'd see a realistic number.

As was said as well, without other car results from that dyno to calibrate against it the numbers are relatively meaningless.

ASAP · 04-08-2016, 10:39 AM

Need to use a dynojet...

M3 Adjuster · 04-08-2016, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ashburyn54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nine Lives

Quote:

Originally Posted by zenmaster

Utterly meaningless w/out other car's results on that same dyno with same conditions.

Agreed.
It would have been good if they could have shown the results for the M 3/4 and the RS3 under the same conditions,although 300 at the wheels equates to 370 at the crank,so taking into effect the fuel quality and ASL specifics and the fact the dyno tells it like it is,its not that far out,although still disappointing if " that's all she wrote "

I'll happily set a baseline after the break-in if you guys want. I have a few local dynojets to lift our spirits.

Please !!

M-Pilot · 04-08-2016, 11:54 AM

I know maybe they did a lot of things wrong and I'm not a dyno expert but 93 vs 91 octane wouldn't make that much difference IMO. 287 is a very disappointing number. I'd really like to see what other cars are rates on that dyno.

m981addicts · 04-08-2016, 11:56 AM

One data point.

MickAv8r · 04-08-2016, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cntzl

I know maybe they did a lot of things wrong and I'm not a dyno expert but 93 vs 91 octane wouldn't make that much difference IMO. 287 is a very disappointing number. I'd really like to see what other cars are rates on that dyno.

yeah it does. Its well documented with other turbos running that shit gas, like in California really struggle to make power on it, especially when running warm. Its also a damn small fan that guy has blowing on the radiator. The ECU sees detonation and pulls the timing and HP goes in the toilet.

Considering that this car is making far less than what M235i's and 335's produce, do you honestly think the M2 is realistically producing less power than a stock production N55 engine?

M-Pilot · 04-08-2016, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MickAv8r

yeah it does. Its well documented with other turbos running that shit gas, like in California really struggle to make power on it, especially when running warm. Its also a damn small fan that guy has blowing on the radiator. The ECU sees detonation and pulls the timing and HP goes in the toilet.

Considering that this car is making far less than what M235i's and 335's produce, do you honestly think the M2 is realistically producing less power than a stock production N55 engine?

Thanks for the explanation. As I said, I'm no dyno expert so I don't know how it works and what would significantly affect the result.

On the 91 vs 93 octane subject, so are you saying that if two identical cars were to let's say drag race (one with 91 and the other with 93 octane), the one with 93 octane would win by a noticable margin? In other words, would going from 91 to 93 result more than 10hp advantage?

3tekcorps · 04-08-2016, 12:43 PM

Who cares about 1 dyno run. It's keeping up with really fast cars on the track. The 0-60 time is great. People love to post controversial crap on youtube just to get the clicks. Why on earth would you run the car on that gas to do a dyno test?

MickAv8r · 04-08-2016, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cntzl

On the 91 vs 93 octane subject, so are you saying that if two identical cars were to let's say drag race (one with 91 and the other with 93 octane), the one with 93 octane would win by a noticable margin? In other words, would going from 91 to 93 result more than 10hp advantage?

On a cold day with adequate cooling, maybe maybe not. On a hot day, with hot engines, restricted airflow etc yeah it can make a big difference.

Remember its the engine having to protect itself from detonation.

ashburyn54 · 04-08-2016, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexCirc

Quote:

Originally Posted by ashburyn54

Nice! Yeah PA like to list the ethanol free fuels. I actually like ethanol so it doesn't bother me. Hopefully this fuel system can take 85% ethanol

Agreed. I ran a 40/60 e85 mix with 93 in my 335i with the N54. The car responded VERY well to this e85 tune I was running.

Once the tuners get a hold of this M2, I think we will definitely see some e85 in this car

Yeah I can't wait to see how the systems holds up. E60-70 with a 20psi peak in my n54 was a complete game changer. 93 felt so slow. I'll do anything to stay off the meth

filet.M2c · 04-08-2016, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ashburyn54

Yeah I can't wait to see how the systems holds up. E60-70 with a 20psi peak in my n54 was a complete game changer. 93 felt so slow. I'll do anything to stay off the meth

Yup, running E40 in my n54 135i was night and day, but then again we only have 91 in AZ

allthatisntnow · 04-08-2016, 04:14 PM

Just whack it on an inertia dyno; that'll tell you what you want to hear if numbers are your game. Problem solved. I mean why would a resistance cell dyno that simulates road loads be anymore accurate for tuning? Thats the whole point of these things to provide a good tuning platform, not for determining if its making factory horsepower or not.

At the end of the day standalone peak dyno numbers mean very little. You only want to use them for tuning the car after establishing a baseline run.

As long as it drives well and performs well real world, who cares?

e46tiag · 04-08-2016, 05:51 PM

Sorry if this is a re-post guys, I didn't see anyone mention it yet:

Tano · 04-08-2016, 05:54 PM

As i see (based on the top speed and RPM) they used gear #4. This has a ratio of 1.179.
Shouldn't they have used gear #5 which has ratio 1?

allthatisntnow · 04-08-2016, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tano

As i see (based on the top speed and RPM) they used gear #4. This has a ratio of 1.179.
Shouldn't they have used gear #5 which has ratio 1?

As far as i know, the Dyno Dynamics can be adjusted to account for any gear ratio the operator choses and adjust accordingly. Doesn't have to be 1:1

parrnan · 04-08-2016, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by e46tiag

Sorry if this is a re-post guys, I didn't see anyone mention it yet:

287 wHP, a little bit low as I was expecting something more like 310 wHP. But the car is new and the engine is not even brake-in yet.

Twix · 04-08-2016, 07:04 PM

You can see from the graph that something with that car isn't right. That dip in the HP line tells you the timing is being retarded, hopefully because of shitty gas and not heat soak.

zenmaster · 04-08-2016, 07:27 PM

ECU could still be adapting for fuel trims.

M-Pilot · 04-08-2016, 08:09 PM

M4 has 425hp on paper and has 425whp on dyno. I don't understand why people are expecting around 300whp for M2. Obviously, no one is buying these cars for their dyno results but I still think M2 should have received the same treatment from BMW as for other M and Non-M models. 340i has 320 claimed hp and it does put down 320hp on dyno as well. 287 vs 370 is a huge difference. It actually means that M2 is underpowered compared to M235i. I know they used 91 octane etc but still I cannot justify the difference.

ASAP · 04-08-2016, 08:25 PM

I am going to ask a dumb or perhaps what should be an obvious questions here...

when has an N55 ever dyno'd its crank hp numbers? Or better yet, when has an N55 ever impressed at the dyno?

Low and behold, i think people are still forgetting that while this is an M car, it still has an N55.

04-08-2016, 10:36 AM	#25
MickAv8r Captain 175 Rep 766 Posts Drives: 2014 EBII 328ix Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: New Hampster iTrader: (0)	TFL can't test cars for shit. They literally have no fucking clue what they are doing. The turbo should correct for the altitude, however they are running shit gas so the car is pulling the timing like crazy to protect the engine. Run proper 93 octane and do a proper pull and I think you'd see a realistic number. As was said as well, without other car results from that dyno to calibrate against it the numbers are relatively meaningless. __________________ Well weathered leather, hot metal and oil, the scented country air. Sunlight on chrome, the blur of the landscape, every nerve aware! 2014 328ix EBII - Sport AT, Light Pkg, Blk Dakota, Moonroof, Navigation, Heated Seats, HK Audio, Driver Assist, Sport Pedals, Dinan Springs, Bilstein B8s, M-Performance BBK
	Appreciate 3 Quote

04-08-2016, 10:39 AM	#26
ASAP Major General 10136 Rep 8,612 Posts Drives: '23 X3 M40i Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: FL iTrader: (0)	Need to use a dynojet... __________________ 2 x N54 -> 1 x N55 -> 1 x S55-> 1 x B58
	Appreciate 2 Quote

04-08-2016, 11:54 AM	#28
M-Pilot Brigadier General 4859 Rep 3,659 Posts Drives: 981 Cayman GTS Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: CA iTrader: (0) Garage List 2024 BMW X5 [0.00] 2023 Toyota GR86 [0.00] 2016 Porsche Cayman ... [10.00]	I know maybe they did a lot of things wrong and I'm not a dyno expert but 93 vs 91 octane wouldn't make that much difference IMO. 287 is a very disappointing number. I'd really like to see what other cars are rates on that dyno.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

04-08-2016, 11:56 AM	#29
m981addicts Lieutenant 145 Rep 426 Posts Drives: 98Mz3-09-135i6sp-13-135isDCT Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Motor Earth iTrader: (0)	One data point.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

04-08-2016, 12:43 PM	#32
3tekcorps Major 826 Rep 1,015 Posts Drives: In Gestation Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: USA iTrader: (0)	Who cares about 1 dyno run. It's keeping up with really fast cars on the track. The 0-60 time is great. People love to post controversial crap on youtube just to get the clicks. Why on earth would you run the car on that gas to do a dyno test?
	Appreciate 2 Quote

04-08-2016, 04:14 PM	#36
allthatisntnow Lieutenant 377 Rep 596 Posts Drives: BMW M2C, 991 C2 Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: North East iTrader: (0)	Just whack it on an inertia dyno; that'll tell you what you want to hear if numbers are your game. Problem solved. I mean why would a resistance cell dyno that simulates road loads be anymore accurate for tuning? Thats the whole point of these things to provide a good tuning platform, not for determining if its making factory horsepower or not. At the end of the day standalone peak dyno numbers mean very little. You only want to use them for tuning the car after establishing a baseline run. As long as it drives well and performs well real world, who cares?
	Appreciate 0 Quote

04-08-2016, 05:51 PM	#37
e46tiag Private 47 Rep 50 Posts Drives: F82 Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Toronto iTrader: (0)	M2 Dyno Review Sorry if this is a re-post guys, I didn't see anyone mention it yet:
	Appreciate 0 Quote

04-08-2016, 05:54 PM	#38
Tano Lieutenant 360 Rep 424 Posts Drives: BMW M2 Join Date: Oct 2015 Location: Hungary iTrader: (0)	As i see (based on the top speed and RPM) they used gear #4. This has a ratio of 1.179. Shouldn't they have used gear #5 which has ratio 1?
	Appreciate 0 Quote

04-08-2016, 07:04 PM	#41
Twix Lieutenant Colonel 655 Rep 1,922 Posts Drives: 2011 e91 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Calgary, AB, Canada iTrader: (0) Garage List 2011 BMW 328i xDriv ... [0.00] 2002 Land Rover Dis ... [0.00]	You can see from the graph that something with that car isn't right. That dip in the HP line tells you the timing is being retarded, hopefully because of shitty gas and not heat soak. __________________ 2011 E91 2016 M2 - Sold 2014 X1 - Sold 2002 Land Rover Discovery II - 3" lift & 33s
	Appreciate 0 Quote

04-08-2016, 07:27 PM	#42
zenmaster Brigadier General 1577 Rep 3,888 Posts Drives: '17 M2 Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Atlanta iTrader: (1)	ECU could still be adapting for fuel trims.
	Appreciate 1 Quote

04-08-2016, 08:09 PM	#43
M-Pilot Brigadier General 4859 Rep 3,659 Posts Drives: 981 Cayman GTS Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: CA iTrader: (0) Garage List 2024 BMW X5 [0.00] 2023 Toyota GR86 [0.00] 2016 Porsche Cayman ... [10.00]	M4 has 425hp on paper and has 425whp on dyno. I don't understand why people are expecting around 300whp for M2. Obviously, no one is buying these cars for their dyno results but I still think M2 should have received the same treatment from BMW as for other M and Non-M models. 340i has 320 claimed hp and it does put down 320hp on dyno as well. 287 vs 370 is a huge difference. It actually means that M2 is underpowered compared to M235i. I know they used 91 octane etc but still I cannot justify the difference.
	Appreciate 2 Quote

04-08-2016, 08:25 PM	#44
ASAP Major General 10136 Rep 8,612 Posts Drives: '23 X3 M40i Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: FL iTrader: (0)	I am going to ask a dumb or perhaps what should be an obvious questions here... when has an N55 ever dyno'd its crank hp numbers? Or better yet, when has an N55 ever impressed at the dyno? Low and behold, i think people are still forgetting that while this is an M car, it still has an N55.
	Appreciate 2 Quote