BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
M2 Technical Topics > N55 Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust / Bolt-ons / Tuning > Bmw F series N55 HPFP upgrades

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      01-20-2020, 10:27 AM   #67
F87source
Major General
F87source's Avatar
No_Country
7178
Rep
7,342
Posts

Drives: Bmw M2
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: .

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZM2 View Post
Hmm... with the kind of coin I’ve seen the more recent used HDP6’s going for, paying a little more to get a new pump that flows more and has better mounting seems worthwhile.

The other pumps have drop in fits without modification and the baseplate mod for the HDP6 is my biggest concern. I need everything to be very robust for the track, and I would be constantly concerned/checking the HDP6 fitment.

Right now I’m leaning towards Dorch Stage 2 to bc they’re supported in BM3 (B58 so far, N55 coming they say), and it’ll give me plenty of headroom to run E50 with a PS2 in winter and occasionally full E85 at the track.
Yeah the hdp6 is really sketchy, and you have to Dremel the bottom of your intake manifold which is pretty sketchy as well. The wiring harness is also really stretched out because of the angles connector which also seems to be an issue imo.


Also, in regards to E50 I'd probably also run a top cylinder lube with that as well if you plan to use it full time just to avoid any additional wear and tear. I know alot of guys usually run a tank of gas in between every tank or two of ethanol to help with lubricity, but with too cylinder lube you shouldn't ever have to.
__________________
Click on the link below to see a compiled list of every review I have ever written:
https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...2#post30368242
Appreciate 1
ZM22785.00
      01-20-2020, 10:54 AM   #68
ZM2
Brigadier General
2785
Rep
3,681
Posts

Drives: 2017 LBB M2
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Baltimore

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by F87source View Post
Yeah the hdp6 is really sketchy, and you have to Dremel the bottom of your intake manifold which is pretty sketchy as well. The wiring harness is also really stretched out because of the angles connector which also seems to be an issue imo.


Also, in regards to E50 I'd probably also run a top cylinder lube with that as well if you plan to use it full time just to avoid any additional wear and tear. I know alot of guys usually run a tank of gas in between every tank or two of ethanol to help with lubricity, but with too cylinder lube you shouldn't ever have to.
Top lube is a new thing for me, but here’s a quick blurb on its impacts. Sounds worthwhile: https://motoiq.com/top-lube-for-e85/
Appreciate 0
      01-20-2020, 11:00 AM   #69
widetyres
Lieutenant
United Kingdom
279
Rep
488
Posts

Drives: M3 E92 DCT, 2012
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: UK

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZM2 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by T_H_O_M_A_S View Post
to clarify certain thougths , ive ranboth hdp5evo and hdp6 ( installed ) . so i have a little xp with them .

a few pros and cons

HDP5evo pros : same height for in and output compared to oem . better orientation of the connector .
cons : is only marginally better compared to oem , doenst support ps2 and Emix . base plate is thinner , but thats not a con actually .

Hdp6 : Pros much more flow available , ps2 and emix ,no problem . thicker baseplate twice of the hdp5evo
cons ; orientation of the connector , needs some work to have clearance with intake manifold . The in and output sit a feww mm higher compared to oem . you will need to adjust the HP line to have it fitted without stress .


Both pumps dont require extra programming because bosch hardware .
both fired right up after install

all in all go for the hdp6 right away , a little more work but much more worth it
Hmm... with the kind of coin I’ve seen the more recent used HDP6’s going for, paying a little more to get a new pump that flows more and has better mounting seems worthwhile.

The other pumps have drop in fits without modification and the baseplate mod for the HDP6 is my biggest concern. I need everything to be very robust for the track, and I would be constantly concerned/checking the HDP6 fitment.

Right now I’m leaning towards Dorch Stage 2 to bc they’re supported in BM3 (B58 so far, N55 coming they say), and it’ll give me plenty of headroom to run E50 with a PS2 in winter and occasionally full E85 at the track.
How proven are dorch engineering? I like the price (well, compared to xdi at any rate) but haven't heard much about them.
Appreciate 1
ZM22785.00
      01-20-2020, 11:08 AM   #70
ZM2
Brigadier General
2785
Rep
3,681
Posts

Drives: 2017 LBB M2
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Baltimore

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by widetyres View Post
How proven are dorch engineering? I like the price (well, compared to xdi at any rate) but haven't heard much about them.
Yeah, I’m not in a hurry to knock this out, so was hoping to hear some feedback on this from others, as well.
Appreciate 0
      01-20-2020, 11:09 AM   #71
cecaa850
Captain
United_States
259
Rep
699
Posts

Drives: 2018 M2
Join Date: May 2018
Location: South East TX.

iTrader: (0)

I wonder why none of the aftermarket pumps work with stock software?
Appreciate 0
      01-20-2020, 11:38 AM   #72
nioh_lbbm2
Lieutenant Colonel
nioh_lbbm2's Avatar
1717
Rep
1,899
Posts

Drives: M2
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: California

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by cecaa850 View Post
I wonder why none of the aftermarket pumps work with stock software?
Because there are no built in parameters to account for the calibration needed for these aftermarket injectors.

I'm layman terms basically the computer doesn't know the injectors are capable of more flow
Appreciate 0
      01-20-2020, 11:45 AM   #73
cecaa850
Captain
United_States
259
Rep
699
Posts

Drives: 2018 M2
Join Date: May 2018
Location: South East TX.

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by nioh_lbbm2 View Post
Because there are no built in parameters to account for the calibration needed for these aftermarket injectors.

I'm layman terms basically the computer doesn't know the injectors are capable of more flow
I didn't know that people were changing injectors. I was just referring to the pump itself. It seems that the stock injectors can flow enough to run the stock HPFP out of fuel.
Appreciate 0
      01-20-2020, 12:05 PM   #74
F87source
Major General
F87source's Avatar
No_Country
7178
Rep
7,342
Posts

Drives: Bmw M2
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: .

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZM2 View Post
Top lube is a new thing for me, but here’s a quick blurb on its impacts. Sounds worthwhile: https://motoiq.com/top-lube-for-e85/
Yup that's the article I read and pointed to earlier in in this thread.
__________________
Click on the link below to see a compiled list of every review I have ever written:
https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...2#post30368242
Appreciate 1
ZM22785.00
      01-20-2020, 12:06 PM   #75
F87source
Major General
F87source's Avatar
No_Country
7178
Rep
7,342
Posts

Drives: Bmw M2
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: .

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by widetyres View Post
How proven are dorch engineering? I like the price (well, compared to xdi at any rate) but haven't heard much about them.
Still pretty new, but their hardware looks very nice, we will have to see as time progresses.
__________________
Click on the link below to see a compiled list of every review I have ever written:
https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...2#post30368242
Appreciate 0
      01-20-2020, 12:08 PM   #76
F87source
Major General
F87source's Avatar
No_Country
7178
Rep
7,342
Posts

Drives: Bmw M2
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: .

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by cecaa850 View Post
I didn't know that people were changing injectors. I was just referring to the pump itself. It seems that the stock injectors can flow enough to run the stock HPFP out of fuel.
Yeah injector swaps are becoming a big thing now, xdi is making higher flow injectors.
__________________
Click on the link below to see a compiled list of every review I have ever written:
https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...2#post30368242
Appreciate 0
      01-20-2020, 12:14 PM   #77
ZM2
Brigadier General
2785
Rep
3,681
Posts

Drives: 2017 LBB M2
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Baltimore

iTrader: (1)

Any recommendations on who to use and best practices for remote tuning when setting up both street & track tunes? Is it as simple as start on the dyno, and then log in the real world and make adjustments?

Last edited by ZM2; 01-20-2020 at 12:24 PM..
Appreciate 0
      01-20-2020, 12:14 PM   #78
nioh_lbbm2
Lieutenant Colonel
nioh_lbbm2's Avatar
1717
Rep
1,899
Posts

Drives: M2
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: California

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by cecaa850 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by nioh_lbbm2 View Post
Because there are no built in parameters to account for the calibration needed for these aftermarket injectors.

I'm layman terms basically the computer doesn't know the injectors are capable of more flow
I didn't know that people were changing injectors. I was just referring to the pump itself. It seems that the stock injectors can flow enough to run the stock HPFP out of fuel.
My bad I don't know why I wrote injectors. I meant the pumps. But the same principle applies, the computer doesn't know the pumps can pump more as the built in parameters don't have that headroom and the computer doesn't know the pumps are capable until you tell it with the tune
Appreciate 0
      01-20-2020, 12:39 PM   #79
F87source
Major General
F87source's Avatar
No_Country
7178
Rep
7,342
Posts

Drives: Bmw M2
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: .

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZM2 View Post
Any recommendations on who to use and best practices for remote tuning when setting up both street & track tunes? Is it as simple as start on the dyno, and then log in the real world and make adjustments?
Twisted Tuning, best tuner in the BMW world period. Not only does he have his own development cars meaning he learns to tune these engines on his own cars so your car won't be a test mule, unlike every Instagram/facebook tuner. But he also can offer things that no one else can such as mafless tuning. Justin from twisted tuning in my opinion is the absolute best tuner for this platform, there is no one better to go to.

For me back in my Subaru days, I liked to start on the Dyno, so I don't have to have a phone or tablet in my hands while blasting down the highway, then having to pull over and wait to reupload tune revisions. The Dyno tune should be already pretty well dialed in for the street and track, but I always take a few logs on the street and track for the final fine tune adjustments to ensure its not too agressive my cooling system cant keep up on the track.

Personally I only have one tune on my cars, and that's the track tune. The reason behind this is I like a consistent feel and I want to be familiar with the way my car behaves. If I'm so used to a street tune and have to readjust to my track tune every time I'm driving at the track, my laptimes will always suffer.
__________________
Click on the link below to see a compiled list of every review I have ever written:
https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...2#post30368242
Appreciate 1
ZM22785.00
      01-20-2020, 02:26 PM   #80
ZM2
Brigadier General
2785
Rep
3,681
Posts

Drives: 2017 LBB M2
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Baltimore

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by F87source View Post
Twisted Tuning, best tuner in the BMW world period. Not only does he have his own development cars meaning he learns to tune these engines on his own cars so your car won't be a test mule, unlike every Instagram/facebook tuner. But he also can offer things that no one else can such as mafless tuning. Justin from twisted tuning in my opinion is the absolute best tuner for this platform, there is no one better to go to.

For me back in my Subaru days, I liked to start on the Dyno, so I don't have to have a phone or tablet in my hands while blasting down the highway, then having to pull over and wait to reupload tune revisions. The Dyno tune should be already pretty well dialed in for the street and track, but I always take a few logs on the street and track for the final fine tune adjustments to ensure its not too agressive my cooling system cant keep up on the track.

Personally I only have one tune on my cars, and that's the track tune. The reason behind this is I like a consistent feel and I want to be familiar with the way my car behaves. If I'm so used to a street tune and have to readjust to my track tune every time I'm driving at the track, my laptimes will always suffer.
All great thoughts. Thanks!
Appreciate 1
F87source7177.50
      01-20-2020, 04:44 PM   #81
F87source
Major General
F87source's Avatar
No_Country
7178
Rep
7,342
Posts

Drives: Bmw M2
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: .

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZM2 View Post
All great thoughts. Thanks!
Anytime!
__________________
Click on the link below to see a compiled list of every review I have ever written:
https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...2#post30368242
Appreciate 0
      01-21-2020, 06:26 AM   #82
cecaa850
Captain
United_States
259
Rep
699
Posts

Drives: 2018 M2
Join Date: May 2018
Location: South East TX.

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by nioh_lbbm2 View Post
My bad I don't know why I wrote injectors. I meant the pumps. But the same principle applies, the computer doesn't know the pumps can pump more as the built in parameters don't have that headroom and the computer doesn't know the pumps are capable until you tell it with the tune


How do you account for the Supra pump then? No software needed yet flows more than stock. After the swap the vehicle starts right up.
Appreciate 0
      01-21-2020, 08:39 AM   #83
ZM2
Brigadier General
2785
Rep
3,681
Posts

Drives: 2017 LBB M2
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Baltimore

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by cecaa850 View Post
How do you account for the Supra pump then? No software needed yet flows more than stock. After the swap the vehicle starts right up.
This brings up a couple related questions:

Do the aftermarket pumps require a tune to run at all, or just to flow more fuel?

For those of us with some warranty left, I’m wondering what an aftermarket HPFP does when you flash back to stock & lock the DME?
Appreciate 0
      01-21-2020, 09:00 AM   #84
F87source
Major General
F87source's Avatar
No_Country
7178
Rep
7,342
Posts

Drives: Bmw M2
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: .

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZM2 View Post
This brings up a couple related questions:

Do the aftermarket pumps require a tune to run at all, or just to flow more fuel?

For those of us with some warranty left, I’m wondering what an aftermarket HPFP does when you flash back to stock & lock the DME?
So far yeah they all need tunes, except the higher flow Bosch ones. Thus could be due to the Bosch hpfps utilizing the same electronics.


The car will not start or run if you have an upgraded hpfp.
__________________
Click on the link below to see a compiled list of every review I have ever written:
https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...2#post30368242
Appreciate 1
ZM22785.00
      01-21-2020, 10:46 AM   #85
paul223
Major
United_States
410
Rep
1,124
Posts

Drives: F10
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: arkansas

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by F87source View Post
Twisted Tuning, best tuner in the BMW world period. Not only does he have his own development cars meaning he learns to tune these engines on his own cars so your car won't be a test mule, unlike every Instagram/facebook tuner. But he also can offer things that no one else can such as mafless tuning. Justin from twisted tuning in my opinion is the absolute best tuner for this platform, there is no one better to go to.

For me back in my Subaru days, I liked to start on the Dyno, so I don't have to have a phone or tablet in my hands while blasting down the highway, then having to pull over and wait to reupload tune revisions. The Dyno tune should be already pretty well dialed in for the street and track, but I always take a few logs on the street and track for the final fine tune adjustments to ensure its not too agressive my cooling system cant keep up on the track.

Personally I only have one tune on my cars, and that's the track tune. The reason behind this is I like a consistent feel and I want to be familiar with the way my car behaves. If I'm so used to a street tune and have to readjust to my track tune every time I'm driving at the track, my laptimes will always suffer.

Twisted Tune will take your money and offer 0 service. Good luck getting hold of them! They are as twisted n crook as their name suggest!
Appreciate 0
      01-21-2020, 11:39 AM   #86
5thGearPinned
Not Mids
5thGearPinned's Avatar
64
Rep
85
Posts

Drives: 2018 M2 -FBO + PS2
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Oakland, CA

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by XxThe_RemedyXx View Post
My HPFP seems to be shitting the bed as well:

Log on 1-9 - http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5e17279dc090c6601b7d1f19

Log on 1-16 after some tune adjustments - http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5e17279dc090c6601b7d1f19

Was told to check my EKP module as well for faults. At some point I have to pick up a new HPFP but am unsure which route to go at this point.
Check my thread I just started in regards to EKPMs crashing with fuel pump upgrades. It is a prevalent problem with more established platforms, but the M2 community hasn't really had any issues with it yet.

I can also confirm the Fuel-It flex fuel kit with BT analyzer has been working well at calculating my fuel as I am also spot checking at the gas stations and has been consistent. I will continue to check it over time esp once I start mixing fuels more regularly.

XDI-35 on the first Jordan tune 91oct map has the car pulling very strongly in normal driving conditions and throughout the power band. More to come and I may start a little build thread if anyone is interested in my tuning to E40-50
__________________
2013 135i N55 - FBO
SOLD 2020 X3 Competition - Alpine white, dp + stage 2
SOLD 2018 LBB M2 FBO, Pure Stage 2 turbo
Appreciate 1
ZM22785.00
      01-21-2020, 12:55 PM   #87
F87source
Major General
F87source's Avatar
No_Country
7178
Rep
7,342
Posts

Drives: Bmw M2
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: .

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 5thGearPinned View Post
Check my thread I just started in regards to EKPMs crashing with fuel pump upgrades. It is a prevalent problem with more established platforms, but the M2 community hasn't really had any issues with it yet.

I can also confirm the Fuel-It flex fuel kit with BT analyzer has been working well at calculating my fuel as I am also spot checking at the gas stations and has been consistent. I will continue to check it over time esp once I start mixing fuels more regularly.

XDI-35 on the first Jordan tune 91oct map has the car pulling very strongly in normal driving conditions and throughout the power band. More to come and I may start a little build thread if anyone is interested in my tuning to E40-50
Yeah I had an ekmp burn out on my m235i when I ran a stage 2 lpfp. It's best to get an upgrade like from bmp4 or however the acronym is. But it's made by torqbyte and sold by evolution of speed.
__________________
Click on the link below to see a compiled list of every review I have ever written:
https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...2#post30368242
Appreciate 0
      01-21-2020, 01:16 PM   #88
5thGearPinned
Not Mids
5thGearPinned's Avatar
64
Rep
85
Posts

Drives: 2018 M2 -FBO + PS2
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Oakland, CA

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by F87source View Post
Yeah I had an ekmp burn out on my m235i when I ran a stage 2 lpfp. It's best to get an upgrade like from bmp4 or however the acronym is. But it's made by torqbyte and sold by evolution of speed.
Thank you, was this plug and play?
__________________
2013 135i N55 - FBO
SOLD 2020 X3 Competition - Alpine white, dp + stage 2
SOLD 2018 LBB M2 FBO, Pure Stage 2 turbo
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:06 PM.




m2
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST