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      05-22-2020, 02:24 PM   #111
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Originally Posted by Poochie View Post

BTW, strait up envy on your E92 M3! I would love to have another car that revs up to 8,000rpms and has an exhaust that sounds like it's tuned, to sound as precise, as a guitar

It's always been my favorite BMW behind a 1M, it's just I could of never afford one new, at 70k and used there a possible rod bearing issue..
I got the e90 sedan partially because I didn't want it to be redundant with the M2 but also I think the doors on the e92 are bizarrely long. I have the stock exhaust but modified to be a bit louder by opening the muffler and welding in solid pipes to replace two of the four perforated pipes. I might replace it with an axle back Corsa exhaust in the future.

The real gem though isn't the exhaust, it's the 8 individual throttle bodies that's part of the intake system. I decided to swap the stock plastic plenum for the CF Eventuri piece that matches the OEM piece it replaces, just CF. It makes the induction noise at wide open throttle much much louder than stock. It doesn't really come through with audio equipment though. The before and after when recorded sound the same but to the ear in the driver seat it's at minimum twice as loud as stock. It made me happy and sad at the same time. Happy because it sounds epic and race car. Sad because I know there isn't anything to be done to the M2 to make it sound as good. Would recommend the CF plenum over a similar price exhaust for sound upgrade. Sounds stock at civilized speeds and sounds race car at wide open throttle.

As for rod bearings it's my opinion that bearings with more clearance fixes the issue. There have not been many larger clearance bearings to come out of these engines but the ones that have come out look great. So if you ever want to one of these cars, I would just build that into the price. Make sure you go with bearings that offer more clearance and were binned correctly. BE bearings are measured so you don't have to worry about it out of the box. Other larger clearance bearings you will want measured by a mechanic who knows what the fuck they are doing so you don't end up with a clearance issue because of tolerance stacking.

Throttle actuators can still go tits up on you but they won't destroy the car. FCP Euro offers life time warranty and there is a UK company that rebuilds them to be stronger so they should never fail.

This one seems like a steal to me if you don't care about the interior or are willing to refresh the interior yourself.
https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1718510

This one although more expensive is also a steal if you want a stripper. No fold down rear seats though. https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1649727
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      05-22-2020, 05:12 PM   #112
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Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
I'm not sure if anyone who had their OEM pipe replaced, ever had a repeated occurrence of failure.

I could be wrong but I never heard of such a case here. And especially now that they revised the flange.

Just like the radiator overflow tank hose that wears out and pops, another known N55 issue, I see this as a typical wear and tear item and not an inherent defect.

Coolant hose exploded https://www.2addicts.com/forums/show....php?t=1553680


And like I said, if you're already pushing heavy boost, above the typical stock load, then please upgrade the plastic pipe but on stock power or maybe a Stage 1, it's recommenced but not required.

I really try to give everyone the most accurate advice I can here and in my experience, the charge pipe is fine, on anything under 400hp.

Had it been a larger issue, there would be a lot more people yapping about it, instead of a few outlier few.

The ramps that I use to lift my car is made out of hard plastic. So if that can withstand 3,500lbs of weight, it shows that plastic properties can be maybe to be as strong as steel.

That's all I really stated, I really wasn't try to kick up dust or play devil advocate.

Maybe it's because mines is a manual and I know the DCT keeps the boost up, durning gear changes..

BTW, strait up envy on your E92 M3! I would love to have another car that revs up to 8,000rpms and has an exhaust that sounds like it's tuned, to sound as precise, as a guitar

It's always been my favorite BMW behind a 1M, it's just I could of never afford one new, at 70k and used there a possible rod bearing issue..
You mean these ramps?



Anything can have design flaws. Material is irrelevant.
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      05-22-2020, 11:47 PM   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PackPride85 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
I'm not sure if anyone who had their OEM pipe replaced, ever had a repeated occurrence of failure.

I could be wrong but I never heard of such a case here. And especially now that they revised the flange.

Just like the radiator overflow tank hose that wears out and pops, another known N55 issue, I see this as a typical wear and tear item and not an inherent defect.

Coolant hose exploded https://www.2addicts.com/forums/show....php?t=1553680


And like I said, if you're already pushing heavy boost, above the typical stock load, then please upgrade the plastic pipe but on stock power or maybe a Stage 1, it's recommenced but not required.

I really try to give everyone the most accurate advice I can here and in my experience, the charge pipe is fine, on anything under 400hp.

Had it been a larger issue, there would be a lot more people yapping about it, instead of a few outlier few.

The ramps that I use to lift my car is made out of hard plastic. So if that can withstand 3,500lbs of weight, it shows that plastic properties can be maybe to be as strong as steel.

That's all I really stated, I really wasn't try to kick up dust or play devil advocate.

Maybe it's because mines is a manual and I know the DCT keeps the boost up, durning gear changes..

BTW, strait up envy on your E92 M3! I would love to have another car that revs up to 8,000rpms and has an exhaust that sounds like it's tuned, to sound as precise, as a guitar

It's always been my favorite BMW behind a 1M, it's just I could of never afford one new, at 70k and used there a possible rod bearing issue..
You mean these ramps?

[IMG]https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon....1L._SL256_.jpg[/IMG]

Anything can have design flaws. Material is irrelevant.
What's that on ramp, a Humvee? No shit it snapped..

Posting some random photo off the internet, with no context, to support your point is a complete waste. What's next, Two Girls, One Cup?

You guys are working overtime to justify installing some heat-soaked, aftermarket garbage, on your vehicle, your tenacity is almost humorous..

You do you and don't mind my perspective or what I choose to use because I couldn't give a rat's ass or a flying fvck what you decide do install in your vehicles but your persistence on the subject, is very telling.

This is not the first time I went down this rabbit hole, aluminum pipe cult members have been trying to convince me that my OEM charge pipe would explode, for the last couple years. And despite all the fear-mongering, the pipe is still fine, up to this day.


https://www.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...php?p=23974461
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      05-27-2020, 08:48 AM   #114
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I havent gone through all the pages of arguing, but has anyone found a solution to keep the stock charge pipe on? I had one explode on me at the track 2 weeks after I got it and replaced under warranty by BMW, and this past weekend the new one kept popping off during an autocross. Granted it was about 90 degrees out and I had a co-driver so I'm sure it got quite hot in there...but given the class I run, I cannot upgrade to a metal CP legally. Any work arounds to keeping this thing stuck on there?
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      05-27-2020, 08:52 AM   #115
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Originally Posted by SafariEdition View Post
I havent gone through all the pages of arguing, but has anyone found a solution to keep the stock charge pipe on? I had one explode on me at the track 2 weeks after I got it and replaced under warranty by BMW, and this past weekend the new one kept popping off during an autocross. Granted it was about 90 degrees out and I had a co-driver so I'm sure it got quite hot in there...but given the class I run, I cannot upgrade to a metal CP legally. Any work arounds to keeping this thing stuck on there?
https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...7&postcount=81

Supposedly the charge pipe got a redesign but not a new part number. So how you want to go about purchasing a new OEM redesigned charge pipe will involve some creativity in order to confirm you got the updated design. Maybe pop in to your local dealer's parts department
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      05-27-2020, 09:21 AM   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nioh_lbbm2 View Post
https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...7&postcount=81

Supposedly the charge pipe got a redesign but not a new part number. So how you want to go about purchasing a new OEM redesigned charge pipe will involve some creativity in order to confirm you got the updated design. Maybe pop in to your local dealer's parts department
Ah perfect, thank you! Just ran out and checked and sure enough, I dont have the updated version. I'm hoping to move to a higher prep level class in a year or so where I'm not hoping BMW figured this out anymore and can use the metal CP...but for now, I would hate to have an event I drove 12 hours to be thrown away because of some silly plastic.
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      05-27-2020, 02:17 PM   #117
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Originally Posted by SafariEdition View Post
Ah perfect, thank you! Just ran out and checked and sure enough, I dont have the updated version. I'm hoping to move to a higher prep level class in a year or so where I'm not hoping BMW figured this out anymore and can use the metal CP...but for now, I would hate to have an event I drove 12 hours to be thrown away because of some silly plastic.
Contact ecs they usually have a stock and they have really good customer service so likely they'll be able to check their stock from you.
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      05-27-2020, 06:11 PM   #118
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"Heat-soaked, aftermarket garbage," repeated in several posts with no supporting evidence, is not a real convincing way to state an argument. But it's also pretty clear that the purpose of that term here has not been to convince anybody, but simply to state a particular poster's "beliefs," however factual or non-factual they may be.

I have a stock CP on a Dinan Stage 4 2017 OG manual M2. No problems yet, but I also have an aluminum CP from VRSF waiting in the wings. I'm comfortable enough that I've covered my bases at this point. I'll probably swap out the CP when I do the CV delete here later this summer...mostly because I like to do shit to my car...
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      05-28-2020, 03:09 AM   #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BruceM View Post
"Heat-soaked, aftermarket garbage," repeated in several posts with no supporting evidence, is not a real convincing way to state an argument. But it's also pretty clear that the purpose of that term here has not been to convince anybody, but simply to state a particular poster's "beliefs," however factual or non-factual they may be.

I have a stock CP on a Dinan Stage 4 2017 OG manual M2. No problems yet, but I also have an aluminum CP from VRSF waiting in the wings. I'm comfortable enough that I've covered my bases at this point. I'll probably swap out the CP when I do the CV delete here later this summer...mostly because I like to do shit to my car...
I guess I'm the 'heak-soak garbage' guy with no basis, which I stated in the heat of the debate, but now that you mentioned it, I have nothing against any particular aftermarket company pushing out a decent product.

It was ignorant to label them as garbage without having first-hand experience but I know factually, nothing beats the fit and finish of an OEM product. I heard a few stories here of fitting issues and eventual boost leaks, from poorly engineered flanges ends, of some aftermarket aluminum pipes.

I said it before and I'll say it again; I don't care what anyone choose install in their vehicle, it obviously doesn't affect me either way and I'm not even trying to sway anyone in either direction, merely sharing my perspective.

You want to put an aftermarket pipe in your vehicle, then you do you, I promise I don't care. I don't agree with all my friends mods but I respect their decision.

However, when someone is attempting to convince me that I'll have a guarantee issue with my OEM charge pipe, which clearly has been working fine for years, it's like telling me that the sky is not blue when I clearly see it resonates the hue of a Smurf.

May I'm a glutton for punishment or I'm just intuitive, either way, my current OEM pipe has been through the paces and has held up to my standard of torture testing.

You say you're running a Stage 4 Dinantronics, which requires and upgraded, hybrid turbo with maxes out roughly 18lbs or boost/load, yet you still running a stock pipe and Dinan doesn't require an upgrade. Doesn't that nudge you, maybe just a morsel, that their might be some validity to my claim.

As far as evidence goes, aside from taking you back to 5th grade science class and explain that aluminum a better conductor of heat than plastic, another member posted factual results that the IAT temp raised, after installation of the aluminum pipe.

Any actual power loss will be hard to quantify, since it's difficult to prove a negative but just based of common and actual senses, I'm convinced, on a hot summer day, there is a loss.

You're free to believe whatever conclusion you've reached and floats your boat but please don't do so, on my account.
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      05-28-2020, 04:13 AM   #120
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I guess I'm the 'heak-soak garbage' guy with no basis, which I stated in the heat of the debate, but now that you mentioned it, I have nothing against any particular aftermarket company pushing out a decent product.

It was ignorant to label them as garbage without having first-hand experience but I know factually, nothing beats the fit and finish of an OEM product. I heard a few stories here of fitting issues and eventual boost leaks, from poorly engineered flanges ends, of some aftermarket aluminum pipes.

I said it before and I'll say it again; I don't care what anyone choose install in their vehicle, it obviously doesn't affect me either way and I'm not even trying to sway anyone in either direction, merely sharing my perspective.

You want to put an aftermarket pipe in your vehicle, then you do you, I promise I don't care. I don't agree with all my friends mods but I respect their decision.

However, when someone is attempting to convince me that I'll have a guarantee issue with my OEM charge pipe, which clearly has been working fine for years, it's like telling me that the sky is not blue when I clearly see it resonates the hue of a Smurf.

May I'm a glutton for punishment or I'm just intuitive, either way, my current OEM pipe has been through the paces and has held up to my standard of torture testing.

You say you're running a Stage 4 Dinantronics, which requires and upgraded, hybrid turbo with maxes out roughly 18lbs or boost/load, yet you still running a stock pipe and Dinan doesn't require an upgrade. Doesn't that nudge you, maybe just a morsel, that their might be some validity to my claim.

As far as evidence goes, aside from taking you back to 5th grade science class and explain that aluminum a better conductor of heat than plastic, another member posted factual results that the IAT temp raised, after installation of the aluminum pipe.

Any actual power loss will be hard to quantify, since it's difficult to prove a negative but just based of common and actual senses, I'm convinced, on a hot summer day, there is a loss.

You're free to believe whatever conclusion you've reached and floats your boat but please don't do so, on my account.
There is only one major issue with this test, and that is it only compares the wrapped aluminium pipe vs unwrapped aluminium pipe, it does not compare it with a stock pipe. It is clear that wrapping any pipe with reflective tape will help insulate it from heat soaking. But the real question is how does this aluminium pipe compare with the factory plastic pipe in terms of heat soaking, this does not answer that in anyway. It only shows temperatures being reduced with thermal protection which would also be true on a factory plastic pipe. So in essence the factory pipe could have the same heat soaking characteristics as the aluminium one.


Yes metal conducts heat better than plastic, but there is a huge likely hood that the bottle neck would be the intake tract in heat soaking, i.e. the intake air and intercooler heatsoaks faster than the pipe and that is the major cause of increased iats, not the fact that the pipe is metal. It would take longer for the owner of this car since he has a massive intercooler, but a con of that would be the fact that it would also take longer to cool down. For my m235i with a 5" intercooler which is what most people would be running, the intercooler heat soaked terribly on a hot summer day in traffic and that is what constituted to the high iats, which were in the high 50ºC range. The next test I would do is use an IR thermometer on the intercooler to see if it is hotter than the engine bay and if it is then that is the source of the heat soak.
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      05-28-2020, 12:57 PM   #121
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Again, my point was and remains that the verbiage used here to describe all aftermarket CP solutions was needlessly inflammatory and, as F87's most recent post reveals, still unsupported by the evidence.

As to my own thoughts on the issue, I've not heard or seen complaints about a mainline aftermarket CP busting, under load or otherwise. That is why I have one waiting in the wings.
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      05-28-2020, 02:48 PM   #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BruceM View Post

As to my own thoughts on the issue, I've not heard or seen complaints about a mainline aftermarket CP busting, under load or otherwise. That is why I have one waiting in the wings.
Nor have I. Talk to a BMW service advisor and they'll tell you that they've seen it plenty of times. When I had my Dinan turbo installed I had them do the pipes to and from the intercooler also. The service advisor said that I might as well as I'd probably be back with the stock one broken eventually anyways.
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      05-28-2020, 04:58 PM   #123
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I haven't read the whole thread - forgive me! - but what are the "symptoms" of a blown charge pipe? I'm having some issues right now and I suspect that is what it is, but I'm not entirely certain.

I have CEL on, rough idle that occasionally stalls when stopped, feels like no power/boost/responsiveness when I hit the pedal especially trying to accelerate onto a highway, and a noticeably loud whoooshy air noise from the engine.

The car was at BMW for 2 days and they replaced an air mass flow sensor, gave me the keys back and clearly it still has issues and is not repaired.
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      05-28-2020, 05:33 PM   #124
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Originally Posted by mrs.boost View Post
I haven't read the whole thread - forgive me! - but what are the "symptoms" of a blown charge pipe? I'm having some issues right now and I suspect that is what it is, but I'm not entirely certain.

I have CEL on, rough idle that occasionally stalls when stopped, feels like no power/boost/responsiveness when I hit the pedal especially trying to accelerate onto a highway, and a noticeably loud whoooshy air noise from the engine.

The car was at BMW for 2 days and they replaced an air mass flow sensor, gave me the keys back and clearly it still has issues and is not repaired.
It depends, if it is minor like a small hair line crack you just lose power and really it is not noticeable. If it is bad like the flange completely fails and blows off you will hear a loud pop and can see the charge pipe not being attached to the throttle body. You will also get a CEL and drivetrain error warning on the idrive.

Do you have a cold air intake? The rough idle, stalling and CEL is signature of a cold air intake causing issues with the MAF reading, the only intake I have never seen an issue with is the CTS turbo intake.


If you don't have an intake then we would need codes to further the diagnosis, otherwise it is just speculation. Data logging will also help diagnose a broken chargepipe since you will see the boost deviation between the target and actual if the car is leaking enough boost. You could also see abnormally high WGDC too.
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      05-28-2020, 05:48 PM   #125
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I know factually, nothing beats the fit and finish of an OEM product.
I also want to address this as well. This is not always true, for some stuff like carbon M performance spoilers or diffusers then yes what I have seen is the OEM parts fitting way better than after market parts. But for example the M performance exhaust sucks compared to after market bits. The build quality sucks with welds being horrible and some M performance exhausts have failed with welds failing and exhaust tips falling off, or having the valves rattling like crazy. Comparing this with an aftermarket part from someone like akra or armytrix or remus or miltek, these guys make incredible exhausts with absolutely incredible build quality that rivals and even surpasses oem quality (definitely beats out the MPE by miles). Another example is unobtainium welding in Canada, their welding for things like downpipes are spectacular and dare I say the best welds world wide, again better than the terrible welds on bmw's factory exhaust and MPE.

Again more proof that not all aftermarket parts are "garbage"
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      05-28-2020, 06:54 PM   #126
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Originally Posted by F87source View Post
It depends, if it is minor like a small hair line crack you just lose power and really it is not noticeable. If it is bad like the flange completely fails and blows off you will hear a loud pop and can see the charge pipe not being attached to the throttle body. You will also get a CEL and drivetrain error warning on the idrive.

Do you have a cold air intake? The rough idle, stalling and CEL is signature of a cold air intake causing issues with the MAF reading, the only intake I have never seen an issue with is the CTS turbo intake.


If you don't have an intake then we would need codes to further the diagnosis, otherwise it is just speculation. Data logging will also help diagnose a broken chargepipe since you will see the boost deviation between the target and actual if the car is leaking enough boost. You could also see abnormally high WGDC too.
I definitely heard a pop when I was revving the car, then this all happened lol. I should take a look around the engine bay - though I am not too mechanically inclined!

Car is not modded in any way. I don't have a code reader either, I just wanted a little more knowledge before heading back to the dealer again. I'm sure it will be under warranty but leaving my car for days on end and them not fixing it properly is annoying heh.
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      05-28-2020, 06:59 PM   #127
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Originally Posted by mrs.boost View Post
I definitely heard a pop when I was revving the car, then this all happened lol. I should take a look around the engine bay - though I am not too mechanically inclined!

Car is not modded in any way. I don't have a code reader either, I just wanted a little more knowledge before heading back to the dealer again. I'm sure it will be under warranty but leaving my car for days on end and them not fixing it properly is annoying heh.
Did the dealership check the chargepipe? You should ask them to.
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      05-29-2020, 12:24 PM   #128
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Did the dealership check the chargepipe? You should ask them to.
I did ask them and the service advisor confirmed they inspected it. So IDK if they're incompetent or it's something else.. 50/50 since it's a dealership LOL

Car goes back Monday to see for sure.
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      05-29-2020, 01:16 PM   #129
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I did ask them and the service advisor confirmed they inspected it. So IDK if they're incompetent or it's something else.. 50/50 since it's a dealership LOL

Car goes back Monday to see for sure.
Ah I see.
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      05-30-2020, 09:28 AM   #130
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went on a cruise and the stock charge pipe on a buddys M2 blew off. on a stock motor lol i think this is an essential mod.
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      06-01-2020, 10:27 AM   #131
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went on a cruise and the stock charge pipe on a buddys M2 blew off. on a stock motor lol i think this is an essential mod.
you're talking about me - but apparently it was a crack in the intake pipe, not the charge pipe

still a huge pain in the arse lol
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      06-03-2020, 12:16 AM   #132
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Drives: BMW M2 Competition
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Germany

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For what it's worth. I just saw this on the BM3 Facebook group. Looks like the updated CP BMW design.
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