[windnsea00]

Had a 2018 Shelby GT350 (I know it's not a Bullitt), such an amazing car and gets your heart racing more than a M2...however deep down I'm a BMW/Porsche person and I can't escape it.

Didn't help the Shelby blew 2 of its engines within 20k miles, they have some serious issues with those Voo Doo powerplants. Ford did take care of it both times no problem and eventually bought the car back from me, at least I can give them that.

[BigKutta]

Originally Posted by xxyion

a balloon payment is not a combination of the two. Its basically a way to reduce monthly payments. If you decide to keep the car forever, you actually end up paying more in the end, but its a way to make the car affordable for people who lets say dont really have the income to support this sort of financial decision.

However for people like us who can afford to just buy this car, this is a good way to take advantage of the system especially if there are no plans to keep the car longer than a few years.

While you cant exactly return the car like you can with a lease. You can always trade the car in to a dealership and then have the dealership take care of the paperwork as normal. Or you can sell it private party and take care of the payments that way.

Thats my plan. At the end of 5 years i'm going to pay off the remaining 18k. If i decide to keep it then great, i didnt have to pay any interest on 18k worth of the car. However if i decide i dont want to keep it, i can probably sell the car for more than my payoff was and therefor effectively reduce my cost of ownership.

Again i only ever recommend this plan if you dont plan on keeping the car long term and only on a car that will most likley hold its value. Most of the time people do this balloon payment with a really badly depreciating car like a 230i and end up spending way more money in the end. They cant even sell the car at he end of5 years without losing money because the car isnt worth the ending balloon payment. However the M2 should be very desirable once we are a few years into the G platform. Especially one in aMT which is what i have.

That's what I thought it was. So, the dealer says to the customer pick a payment and loan length, and then they work out the balloon numbers accordingly? So, you could say I only want to pay $500 a month, and they work out the rest? If I remember correctly, the interest was much higher than the traditional loan rate as well.

Its crazy how creative they've gotten with simple car loans

[Emm2Cee]

Originally Posted by Sarg33

I have owned a minimum of 6 Mustangs ranging from 1988 thru 2014 all in various stages of tune/mod. One was a 2003 SVT Cobra and for me personally the BMW M2 Competition is the Mustang I was always looking for. The M2C is everything I wanted the Mustang to be, but the Mustang failed at.
If you are looking for a car that sounds great and can do burnouts, then buy the Mustang. If you are looking for a solid, all around car that seems to speak to your soul every time you get behind the wheel...Then the BMW is for you.
In my eyes they are not even in the same league and I honestly could never even think of owning another Mustang after having owned the M2C.

Side notes:
- The Mustang and M2C are actually very close in interior size.
- The test drive is a lie, you cannot experience what the M2C is on a test drive.

Interesting that you say that.

On the test drive, I felt the V8 in the Mustang made all the right noises which is severely lacking in the M2C.

But the Mustang's ride felt very, um, floaty, even though it had magnetic suspension. It felt like driving a boat... and I don't see myself as a 'Stang guy.

Someone mentioned price. $25K is quite a bit of money but it's not gonna break the bank. I am MORE concerned about value. Simply put, is BMW over-charging us or are these vehicles really worth it?

I'll go out for another longer test-drive and will make my decision then.

[Emm2Cee]

Originally Posted by baege

I seriously considered the Bullitt before pulling the trigger on the M2C.
I love normal aspiration, low end torque and manual and I think the Bulliitt looks good (classy and mean).
So I went and test drove one (a pre-owned one at bmw dealer funny enough)
here's what I liked
the sound, the look
here's what I didn't like:
it actually doesn't feel that torquey at low rpms
the size
the shift action and quality
the level of refinement
the handling quality
it just overall felt sloppy

I just knew it wasn't for me, and funny enough I didn't get that feeling when several years ago I test drove a c7. I ended up buying a c7 and the sloppy feeling thing crept in after I had a few days and so I sold it and got another porsche cayman s.

domestics don't have the level of precision and refinement that german cars do. for me that matters.

the m2c is a very fun car (and I haven't even passed break in yet), about the only thing the bullitt would have over it would be sound.

Yeah, I felt the exact same way. Don't get me wrong: the Bullitt doesn't handle that bad but it didn't compare to M2C.

How do you like your M2C as compared to the Cayman S?

[Emm2Cee]

Originally Posted by mrs.boost

BMW Canada does have a 0.99% rate going as part of their loyalty incentive program. If you have a BMW (2012 or newer) in the same household (or maybe family member with same last name??) it applies. Or a $2500 cash discount.

I'm a sucker for deals and the high(er) interest rate means that I'm forking out more of my money as compared to the 0% rate that Ford is currently offering.

I tend to keep my car for 3 to 5 years, and then flip them just as warranty is expiring. I've had many different brands (Honda, Toyota, Mazda, Ford, Chev, Kia) so I'm not brand loyal.

BMW would be my first german car and I'm kind of excited about it.

[Emm2Cee]

Originally Posted by xxyion

I'm going to come at this from a different angle than other people who have already answered.

You mentioned the APR and how much more money you will be paying. Regardless or not if you can afford it, that tells me that money and overall cost is still something you care about.

I have two question. Will this be a daily driver, and how often do you keep cars forever?

The reason i ask is because BMW has what they call a balloon payment. Now normally this is not recommended at all and only servers to give BMW more money in the long run. Also most of the time people end up upside down.

However, with an M car, and especially one that is regarded as the best modern M car, the balloon payment actually (still a gamble) isnt a terrible idea. If you are someone who only keeps cars a few years, this can be a great way to avoid paying as much.

A few key things, you need to know how much of a balloon payment will be left after 5 years, and a rough estimate of what the car sells for in 5 years based on how much you drive the vehicle. For me, i went with this option, the car balloon payment after 5 years will be 18k. Based on estimates of similar M cars with 60k miles, this car MIGHT sell for between 20k-30k. Since i do not plan on keeping this car forever, at the end of my 5 year payment plan, i will most likley sell the car, and come away with between 2k-12k which i can then use as a down payment on another car. This allows me to "save" between 20k-30k on the car. Thats about 1/2 the MSRP cost of the car. Now yes...its a gamble. Who knows whats going to happen in 5 years. However i'm confident that in 5 years i will be able to sell my car for more than what i owe on it. If i decide i want to keep it, i'm in a place in my life where i'll just pay the rest of the 18k and avoid paying anymore interest. Which means i'll save money overall.

Now i dont know if Ford has a similar payment plan...pretty sure they dont as i've owned 3 in my life, but this could maybe swing your decision at least monetarily in favor of BMW. Normally i would never do this or recommend this especially if you were buying a base model BMW. However M cars tend to hold their value much better and this was also based on the fact that every single reviewer called this the best M car since the E46.


Personally for me though, i'd choose the BMW (obviously). But thats largely due to the fact that i've owned 3 fords and they all gave me issues whether it was Ford service or the car itself all within the first year. My first 4 months with the BMW has been nothing but a dream in both the service department and the car itself.

Yeah, I looked in the balloon payment and it does reduce the payments by 1/3rd. BUT: you're still paying the 2.99% interest on the full MSRP.

If someone's cashflow is tight, this a great alternative.

[baege]

Originally Posted by Emm2Cee

Yeah, I felt the exact same way. Don't get me wrong: the Bullitt doesn't handle that bad but it didn't compare to M2C.

How do you like your M2C as compared to the Cayman S?

so I've had 2 981 Cayman S's, and my first was my first porsche experience, and I absolutely loved that thing. I was blown away by a 15 minute test drive in a PDK boxster S and had to have a cayman so I ordered one. Got one of the first ones delivered in Canada in June of 2013. I have never enjoyed driving a car so much, the instant electric throttle response, the insane capable handling, the awesome sound, the amazing manual transmission. I literally had to talk myself out of driving that thing, I wanted to drive all the time.

the m2c doesn't quite reach that level of excitement for me, but I still love the thing. the manual is not as good, the sound is not as good, it's not as focused in handling, there is turbo lag so the throttle response is not as good. but I still enjoy every drive and look forward to the next one. The m2c definitely has some pluses over the 981S. It has much more low end torque, it has better gearing and is faster, it's easier to see out of, it has better clearance. It's a different kind of fun, more like a hooligan muscle car (with great handling) than a precise sports car like the cayman.

If you've never had a cayman 981 S and you don't need the back seats, I would take a CPO 981S over a M2C honestly...if you are into a pure visceral driving experience.

[Gizmo 335i]

Originally Posted by baege

so I've had 2 981 Cayman S's, and my first was my first porsche experience, and I absolutely loved that thing. I was blown away by a 15 minute test drive in a PDK boxster S and had to have a cayman so I ordered one. Got one of the first ones delivered in Canada in June of 2013. I have never enjoyed driving a car so much, the instant electric throttle response, the insane capable handling, the awesome sound, the amazing manual transmission. I literally had to talk myself out of driving that thing, I wanted to drive all the time.

If you've never had a cayman 981 S and you don't need the back seats, I would take a CPO 981S over a M2C honestly...if you are into a pure visceral driving experience.

"Never meet your heroes" or something like that. I tried to like the Cayman but it just doesn't work for me. Getting in and out was difficult (and painful actually). Once in it I was too low and cramped. The offset pedals (like air-cooled 911s) and the exceedingly high clutch engagement point ruined the driving experience. And I'm not a big guy...6 ft, 165 lbs in athletic shape. I was never more disappointed in such a highly regarded car (the S2000 comes in a close second). The driving experience in a 991 911 is much better although not that much easier to get in and out of.

The M2 ticked all the boxes for me. It was the hero I never saw coming. Sporty cars are too dependent on individual tastes to draw any conclusions. Ya gotta drive 'em first.

[Sarg33]

Originally Posted by Emm2Cee

Interesting that you say that.

Thinking about it I guess my purpose has changed over the years. When I was younger having the loud fast car that could beat most from street light to street light was what I wanted. I would always change the exhaust to something louder and most times changed the rear end gearing and added a power adder (NOS, Supercharger, etc.).

Now I want the whole package. I want a car that is comfortable, corners great, accelerates hard, and can still drive on trips without worry. The M2C may not be the quickest, best sounding, or most attention demanding, but it does everything very well and it truly speaks to me in a way no other car ever has. To me it really is the complete package. Easy to drive slow around town and a blast to hooligan out on the country roads, always egging you on to push it just a little more.

My reference about the test drive was, many people on here, to include myself, were disappointed with the M2C during their initial test drive. I think it is a car you need to learn to drive to find its 'happy places' and then you can truly appreciate it for what it is.

As many have said, the choice is really yours to make. It all comes down to where you are at in life and what you are wanting out of a car. Either way I wish you the best in your hunt.

[18340i]

Originally Posted by Emm2Cee

Hi everyone,

I'm strongly considering a 2020 M2C. Local dealer has the exact specs I want and is willing to deal.

However, I'm a bit stumped at the value proposition and need some guidance (or rather, a push from you all) to get the BMW.

Along with the BMW, I'm also considering a Bullitt. Bullitt has more power, sounds better, has a better stereo, is roomier, but: it doesn't have the tech/features that BMW has, it doesn't drive as tight, and the quality is questionable.

M2C's seats are also amazing with seemingly infinite ways to adjust them.

Here is my issue: BMW will end up costing me ~$24K more over 5 years (also note that Bullitt can be had for 0% over 5 years whereas M2C's interest rates are 2.99%). I'm in a financial position to not worry about it but $24K is a lot of money that could be used for many other things.

So here is my question: what made you decide on your M2C? What else were you considering? Do you have any regrets?

isn't the m2c 0.9% to June 1st?

also wouldn't necessarily say the mustang sound system is better. once you mess with the equalizer, the hk system is really good. exhaust on the mustang is definitely better though.


look at the cars and the build quality, panel gaps, etc. there's definitely a difference in the BMWs favor.

[Conissah]

Originally Posted by Emm2Cee

I'm a sucker for deals and the high(er) interest rate means that I'm forking out more of my money as compared to the 0% rate that Ford is currently offering.

I tend to keep my car for 3 to 5 years, and then flip them just as warranty is expiring. I've had many different brands (Honda, Toyota, Mazda, Ford, Chev, Kia) so I'm not brand loyal.

BMW would be my first german car and I'm kind of excited about it.

Consider resale values as well. From what I've seen, the M2's and M2C's tend to hold value better than any Mustang or Camaro ever will. They just make, and sell, too many of the latter cars for them to be worth anything used. That's another major reason I chose the M2C over a GT350 or a 2SS 1LE, I see 10 of those a day EASILY. I've seen maybe 3 M2's on the streets since they've come out.

Have you ever owned, or driven, a turbo car?

[BigKutta]

Originally Posted by 18340i

isn't the m2c 0.9% to June 1st?

also wouldn't necessarily say the mustang sound system is better. once you mess with the equalizer, the hk system is really good. exhaust on the mustang is definitely better though.


look at the cars and the build quality, panel gaps, etc. there's definitely a difference in the BMWs favor.

we have an equalizer?

[Moflow]

Originally Posted by 18340i

look at the cars and the build quality, panel gaps, etc. there's definitely a difference in the BMWs favor.

My buddy and I recently washed our cars together, he has a 2019 mustang GT so I got to see the exterior quality up close as owned by someone who takes care of his cars. My friend kept remarking on how nice the paint was on the BMW. It also does not have uneven panel gaps like the mustang, or a black panel above the rear bumper that scratches at the merest hint of a touch. Washing the two cars back to back was interesting, you get to see where some of that extra money went with the BMW. Then again, we didn’t race, but I bet his car is faster. It was also probably 2/3rds the price.

[bubsterino]

i heard a great sounding mustang yesterday - it was loud and awesome. and i realized for ME, "cool car - but too loud for me". So sound cuts both ways.

i think the things for me that would keep me from getting into a US muscle car in general, but in particular vs an M2C:

1) size
2) sound (volume too conspicuous)
3) visibility

i'd be lying if I could share anything more details because i have never driven a new mustang.

good luck!

[bubsterino]

Originally Posted by BigKutta

we have an equalizer?

not sure if you're joking or not (so many people complain about how the stereo stinks on this car, but I'm not one of them), but at least for those with the HK package, there is a tone setting to adjust treb/mid/bass).

i'm pretty sure my 228 and M240 had these options too, but i'm also pretty sure i've always gotten the upgraded sound package :-)

[xxyion]

Originally Posted by BigKutta

That's what I thought it was. So, the dealer says to the customer pick a payment and loan length, and then they work out the balloon numbers accordingly? So, you could say I only want to pay $500 a month, and they work out the rest? If I remember correctly, the interest was much higher than the traditional loan rate as well.

Its crazy how creative they've gotten with simple car loans

not quite. The balloon payment is calculated similar to a lease payment. Essentially BMW calculates roughly how much the M2 will be worth in 5 years with 60k miles on it. The from there they decide whether or not they want to make that number higher or lower. In the past they were giving people a higher balloon payment at the end because it would lower monthly payments initially. So for example, for the M2, BMW was giving people a 25k balloon payment at the end, so their monthly came out to really just paying off 35k. Doesnt sound like a bad deal right? However the issue people ran into, is that they would buy a car that depreciated faster than the M2, so they would end up being under after the 5 years.

Recently BMW has switched it, the Balloon payment at the end is lower, which means higher monthly, however with a car that wont depreciate as fast like the M2, i will most likley be walking away positive if i decide to sell the car in 5 years. I believe the break even point is around the 3rd year. So if i decide i want to sell the car in 3 years i'll walk away with 0, but i wont have to owe anything either.

The payment plan is always 5 years, and yes you still pay interest on the full cost of the car so that kinda sucks. But the interest will be determined based on your credit. Unfortunetly my credit was a bit lower than it is now when i bought the car so i got 2.99%. However had my credit been higher, or if i had bought during the pandemic, i might have been able to score the lower interest.

[BigKutta]

Originally Posted by xxyion

not quite. The balloon payment is calculated similar to a lease payment. Essentially BMW calculates roughly how much the M2 will be worth in 5 years with 60k miles on it. The from there they decide whether or not they want to make that number higher or lower. In the past they were giving people a higher balloon payment at the end because it would lower monthly payments initially. So for example, for the M2, BMW was giving people a 25k balloon payment at the end, so their monthly came out to really just paying off 35k. Doesnt sound like a bad deal right? However the issue people ran into, is that they would buy a car that depreciated faster than the M2, so they would end up being under after the 5 years.

Recently BMW has switched it, the Balloon payment at the end is lower, which means higher monthly, however with a car that wont depreciate as fast like the M2, i will most likley be walking away positive if i decide to sell the car in 5 years. I believe the break even point is around the 3rd year. So if i decide i want to sell the car in 3 years i'll walk away with 0, but i wont have to owe anything either.

The payment plan is always 5 years, and yes you still pay interest on the full cost of the car so that kinda sucks. But the interest will be determined based on your credit. Unfortunately my credit was a bit lower than it is now when i bought the car so i got 2.99%. However had my credit been higher, or if i had bought during the pandemic, i might have been able to score the lower interest.

Thanks, I get how it works now. So basically, you manipulate the payment, but at the end of 5 years, you still got a check to write. I'm sure many a people with a short term view just think about the payment and sign up, and say "we'll worry about balloons after 5 years...who cares, its so far away anyway".
Anywho, I decided to dig up my old emails with my SA and he did say exactly this. After 5 years 60k miles, the balloon would have been $20,000. But based on my down payment, I still felt the payment was too high, and that too for 5 years!! I didnt bother to explore this more at the time.

[Emm2Cee]

Originally Posted by Conissah

Consider resale values as well. From what I've seen, the M2's and M2C's tend to hold value better than any Mustang or Camaro ever will. They just make, and sell, too many of the latter cars for them to be worth anything used. That's another major reason I chose the M2C over a GT350 or a 2SS 1LE, I see 10 of those a day EASILY. I've seen maybe 3 M2's on the streets since they've come out.

Have you ever owned, or driven, a turbo car?

Yes, I've had a Focus ST wich had a 2 litre turbo engine. What a fun little car that hatchback was!

[Emm2Cee]

Originally Posted by baege

so I've had 2 981 Cayman S's, and my first was my first porsche experience, and I absolutely loved that thing. I was blown away by a 15 minute test drive in a PDK boxster S and had to have a cayman so I ordered one. Got one of the first ones delivered in Canada in June of 2013. I have never enjoyed driving a car so much, the instant electric throttle response, the insane capable handling, the awesome sound, the amazing manual transmission. I literally had to talk myself out of driving that thing, I wanted to drive all the time.

the m2c doesn't quite reach that level of excitement for me, but I still love the thing. the manual is not as good, the sound is not as good, it's not as focused in handling, there is turbo lag so the throttle response is not as good. but I still enjoy every drive and look forward to the next one. The m2c definitely has some pluses over the 981S. It has much more low end torque, it has better gearing and is faster, it's easier to see out of, it has better clearance. It's a different kind of fun, more like a hooligan muscle car (with great handling) than a precise sports car like the cayman.

If you've never had a cayman 981 S and you don't need the back seats, I would take a CPO 981S over a M2C honestly...if you are into a pure visceral driving experience.

I am looking for that visceral experience but having back seats is important (two young 'uns).

Thank you for sharing your experience. Are you satisfied with the M2C?

[Conissah]

Originally Posted by Emm2Cee

Yes, I've had a Focus ST wich had a 2 litre turbo engine. What a fun little car that hatchback was!

The M2C is great. Very very little turbo lag, and it pulls pretty hard before falling off near redline (due to the BMW factory detune). With some high flow filters, you can hear them spooling in the cabin, it's a whole lot of fun. Go drive one and you'll be hooked!

[Killed by Death]

Went from M4C to M2C and couldn't be happier. M4C was TOO big IMHO. Get in on the party while you still can.

[baege]

Originally Posted by Emm2Cee

I am looking for that visceral experience but having back seats is important (two young 'uns).

Thank you for sharing your experience. Are you satisfied with the M2C?

well if you need 2 back seats then there is no better car than the M2C in its price range

I am actually pleasantly surprised by how much I enjoy the M2C, I wasn't expecting all that much, (I bought it more because of a lack of options, i need manual), but it's actually a very fun car