10-29-2019, 04:52 PM | #111 |
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I bought a vape pen from an American seller but in big, bold letters it proudly displays "Made in Germany." I get that insignia is required by US Customs but it also shows the perception of European-engineered (and assembled) products, that it is build with a higher caliber of quality assurance and standards. Regardless if that's an ignorant notion it still hits at why some folks have an issue with their German vehicle being Made In Mexico. It's nothing personal against that particular country but it's more of keeping the lineage of that particular product intact. However, anytime anyone attempts to convey this point, it skews into something political. |
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10-29-2019, 05:16 PM | #112 | |
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10-29-2019, 05:52 PM | #113 | ||
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Answer: Because that wouldn't have helped them sell shit. I have nothing against Mexico, China etc etc... but I still want my German car made in Germany for ED pickup, My Scotch from Scotland, My HK Pistol from Germany, My French wine from France, etc etc etc........ I almost forgot our glass from Murano |
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10-29-2019, 06:47 PM | #114 | |
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I was expressing how I personally feel about it. |
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10-29-2019, 06:47 PM | #115 |
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Hey guys,
At the risk of wading into a topic that evokes very strong emotions, I do think perhaps we’re all slightly talking past each other. It seems to me that we could perhaps disaggregate some of the issues in this topic: 1. Advanced manufacturing processes - I think a lot of posts are touching upon the idea that when it comes to modern manufacturing, what ultimately matters are processes and systems. Location of your manufacturing plant will depend upon whether conditions on the ground in a given locale match up to what you are trying to achieve. For example, I've actually taken part in location decisions where the decision to locate a plant in Mexico versus the U.S. was entirely driven by willingness of the workforce to adopt lean manufacturing techniques - Mexico plant would be new, workforce was willing to train in new techniques, while the U.S. workforce wasn't. Everyone thought that decision was "we're going to low cost Mexico." Nope. It had nothing to do with the cost of labor. It had everything to do with processes and systems. So, I think the different folks posting about this are correct in that, contrary to popular media accounts, labor makes up a relatively small portion of overall costs in advanced manufacturing these days; meanwhile, your ability to do just-in-time, pull-systems, etc., etc., are SIGNIFICANTLY more impactful to your bottom line. In most cases these days, with advanced, well-thought-out location strategies, hourly labor cost really doesn't factor much into the decision - at least, not in the location strategy projects I've been a part of over the years 2. Quality - A lot of posts presuppose that locating in a lower cost geography necessarily means lower quality. In some cases, that may be true, particularly for very simple, low complexity products, like pots and pans or sheet metal or whatever. However, from what I've seen with regard to advanced manufacturing and assembly, again, productivity and quality derive from highly specific processes and systems. Again, I go back to lean manufacturing - it's a holistic approach to manufacturing and it doesn't matter whether you use German, American, Mexican, or Martian personnel. If you master lean, you get high quality production. If you don't master lean, doesn't matter how highly paid or highly knowledgeable your workforce is, you get crap quality and reliability. (Here's looking at you, America! Sorry. Couldn't help that little dig. Ha!) So, I do get that the general perception is that going to a low cost geography is all about nickels and dimes, but again, given how complex and advanced auto manufacturing is these days, I suspect the quality will not depend upon that one factor - it's really all about whether the manufacturer can ensure adherence to a powerful system and process 3. Brand perception - Now, a lot of folks are saying, "Heck no, I don't want a vehicle manufactured in a low cost geography - it tarnishes the brand." Here, I believe that sentiment probably has to do with brand perception. That makes sense. We, as primates, are highly attuned to signals of prestige and standing. And, for various reasons, "German precision" has very high status associated with it. So, yes, perhaps manufacturing in Mexico does diminish the brand. But, over time, as a given manufacturer and a given locale can prove quality, the brand perception does change over time. Remember when "made in Japan" was derogatory? Then, low status connotations moved to "made in Taiwan." Then, it became "made in Korea." Then, it became "made in China." But, by the same token, my iPhone XS Max is "made in China" and it's pretty darn sweet. It changes over time as each locale proves its ability to deliver quality 4. Heritage - This one... I'm not sure what to say. I guess this is one that I don't understand very well, so perhaps I shouldn't comment at all. My problem is that I'm a first generation immigrant, without any sense of history or sentiment or legacy, etc., etc. So, I think maybe the idea of "heritage" is just completely alien to me! Anyway, I suspect that we're all expressing different opinions on this topic, because we all have different preferences. For some, brand connotations matter most, in which case, having our high end car manufactured in Mexico does take away from the consumer experience. For others, quality is of highest import, and there I suspect we'll have to "wait and see" if BMW can get it right in their new locale. It's funny, but in my work life, I learned about all this stuff, and applied it helping Fortune 500 companies with their strategies, and Toyota became my absolute favorite, due to their having pioneered some remarkable processes. Highest possible quality ever. But... I could NEVER get myself to buy a Toyota! Ha! I now have an obsession with Porsche, because I belatedly realized that they have actually become a world leader in lean processes. The ability to mate quality with performance! Now that's something I can get behind! http://cavqm.blogspot.com/2013/06/po...uring-and.html |
10-29-2019, 06:52 PM | #116 | |
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Maybe BMW underestimates the passion that picking up a real M car from a real German factory and driving it on real German roads - - like it was designed to do - - creates a passionate, dedicated fan base that buys BMWs over and over again. Produce the regular 2 series in Mexico. I don't care. Produce Ms in Germany, PLEASE. Reminds me of when the "brand engineers" from Johnson & Johnson took over General Motors and drove it into the ground in the 80s. They forgot their base. Don't forget your enthusiast base, BMW.
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10-29-2019, 07:00 PM | #117 |
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This video, starting about 2:20, mentions daily distribution of 620 vehicles (about 175,000 annually) & production for a global market. US 3er + 2er = <50%
Last edited by BMWGirlFL; 10-29-2019 at 08:40 PM.. |
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10-29-2019, 08:29 PM | #119 |
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Many years ago I owned a Passat built in Germany, and I can tell you that your problem was with VW, not Mexico. In my case, the car needed three turbos and a turbo-related recall, all front suspension arms were gradually replaced in the first 80K, plus a bunch of smaller issues I can't remember exactly anymore.
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10-29-2019, 08:44 PM | #120 |
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This plant is currently building approximately 200 cars a day, virtually all of them US 330i. But the plans are to have it produce almost all higher volume versions of G20 for all markets (focusing on the Americas), and then be the source of all G42s worldwide.
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10-29-2019, 09:02 PM | #121 |
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10-29-2019, 09:57 PM | #122 |
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Mexico has less beer holidays than Germany, so they wont be as many "beer cars." However, rumor has it that they will only allow factory workers to drink Heineken during their breaks instead of Corona.
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10-29-2019, 10:23 PM | #123 | |
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10-30-2019, 01:27 AM | #125 | |
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10-30-2019, 08:07 AM | #126 | |
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10-30-2019, 10:41 AM | #127 |
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I understand the euro delivery thing. That is a huge part of the experience and if not an option. On being built in Mexico not sure about bmw but here is my experience. I have owned 4 German built bmws and they were all unreliable cars compared to Japanese cars I owned. I bought a German built 2008 VW GTI and we had all sorts of electrical and engine leak and oil consumption problems. We traded in for a Mexican built 2017 VW GTI and have not had a single issue in 2 years as 22k miles. So that's my Mexican built experience. My mom has a Mexican built 2013 VW Jetta GLI and only issue in 6 years and 70k miles is one coil going out and when I took it out appears to have come from Europe . Finally my best friend born in Hamburg and a Porsche fan VW hater checked out 2017 GTI and wasn't able to see anything that made the fit and finish appear to be less than out German model. Neither can I and I love German cars. I also have my biases but If a Mexican built M2 is cheaper and as good as the German one that might not be so bad. This reminds me of when California wines were winning awards but people were saying but they have to come from France to be great!
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10-30-2019, 11:08 AM | #128 | |
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10-30-2019, 11:18 AM | #129 | |
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Point is just because a BMW is built somewhere else in the world it's not going to be any better or worse for that matter. These are multi billion dollar corporations that for lack of a better word don't fuck around. |
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10-30-2019, 11:22 AM | #130 | |
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10-30-2019, 11:29 AM | #131 | |
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This is a move to keep their shareholders happy, with no real benefit to consumers except maybe with a shorter delivery time to the US. Just like how BMW eliminated the passenger-dimming side mirror, grab handles, 4 year all inclusive maintenance, ect, it's all in attempt to save a buck. I get their position and I don't completely knock them for shifting assembly to reduce overhead and increase profits but that doesn't mean I have to like it, since I'm the end-user. |
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10-30-2019, 01:10 PM | #132 |
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to pay devils advocate...from BMW point of view...apple products are on average 10-17% more expensive then their competitors and their products are manufacturered and assembled in china.
They probably figure if apple can get away with that...they can too. on to the other side of that...the german people are known around the world for their attention to detail and very strict methodical workmanship. Its part of their culture and people are willing to pay a premium for that. i'm not saying mexican workers cannot do what a $60hr german worker is doing but i doubt it at $13hr. Even for mexico standards the mexican BMW workers are under paid. you can give everyone the same receipt for a cake and it'll still taste different depending on who made it. My personal opinion i agree the regular BMWs can be made in mexico but the M car should be made in germany. In my personal opinon, no i would not pay $60-70k made in mexico M car. Thats my personal preference. Cars are more of a emotional long term purchase versus disposable electronics. I probably just pay off and keep my og m2 and then get a tesla or cayman next Last edited by TemjinX2; 10-30-2019 at 01:18 PM.. |
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