[pkimM3r]

Originally Posted by e92proper

I have to admit, the m2 has definitely sparked my interest. however I think it will be a tough sell to the folks on here that are currently rocking an e9x n55 platform. I mean with a good tune and some bolt ons, guys are getting those numbers.......I'm not sure the body styling alone would warrant getting out of an almost perfect e9x (visually IMO) platform. we will see I guess.

nothing perfect with a series e9x.

[pkimM3r]

Originally Posted by BimmerMeUp

Can we say at this point if the wheels and tires will be staggered sized, or square all around like the M235i (which regrettably has only 7.5" wide wheels)?

I'd like square, but not crazy expensive 19", and ideally 8" width for better after market options that match OEM (as you must for some kinds of competition). 18 x 8 all around would suit me just fine.

it should come with 18x10 square...that way don't need to go buy some apex wheels LOL

[pkimM3r]

Originally Posted by Advevo

I just test drove an M235i. There needs to be a lot of tweaking on that car if i trade in my 1M coupe for an M2.

M235i feels a lot bigger than my 1M. The car is hanging on it s side mirrors in corners. Looking thru the front screen the hood looks massive and gives you the feel you drive a very big car.

The engine of the M235i is better than the 1M engine. It s much more linear thru 7000 revs and feels almost like an atmo engine.

If they make an M2 out off M235i there needs to be some work done by the M engineers to get a better car then an 1M coupe.

Let s wait and see.

what's your impression on throttle response....love your vids.

[pkimM3r]

Originally Posted by dwvcfii

I don't understand this fetish with carbon fiber driveshafts. You guys do understand that regardless of the weight benefits they are absolutely ridiculously expensive to replace, right? If they are ever nicked during maintenance they will fracture at some point down the road. Good luck getting BMW or your indy shop to pay for that.

Just give me a standard steel or aluminum driveshaft and keep the exotic materials.

nicked during maintenance?!? how is there going to be a nick on a carbon driveshaft..its strongly than steel and it takes a lot more torque to deform it. now it wont bend and it will shatter and fray but at this point a steel shaft would be well beyond broken as well.

[w3rkn]

Originally Posted by HP Autosport

I would like to see CF option on the M2.

And please make it at least 200 lbs lighter than the 1M, not like the porky M235i.

What..?
You are mad, if you think the 2-series M2 will be lighter than the 1-series 1M..!

BMW has not given ANY indication that the M2 will even be a real M-car, or offer such focus.. There is no way BMW will peal off 200lbs from the M235i... which is now as heavy as a Mustang.

I am not impressed, nor I am faithful that BMW will make the M2 a quintessential car. It will be pure marketing.. as we have not seen any M2's with CF bits.. which is a must for anyone paying BMW M's premium.


Secondly, BMW better think long & hard of all the people in waiting for this M2... which are MANY. I am pounding on my 135is in hopes of ordering a M2.. but zero CF, or other quint stuff, then I will easily flip my cash towards Fords and get that GT350 for the same price.

Not as uppity, but I know that won't have BMW nannies, & will have way more potential on the track...

[HP Autosport]

Originally Posted by w3rkn

What..?
You are mad, if you think the 2-series M2 will be lighter than the 1-series 1M..!

BMW has not given ANY indication that the M2 will even be a real M-car, or offer such focus.. There is no way BMW will peal off 200lbs from the M235i... which is now as heavy as a Mustang.

I am not impressed, nor I am faithful that BMW will make the M2 a quintessential car. It will be pure marketing.. as we have not seen any M2's with CF bits.. which is a must for anyone paying BMW M's premium.


Secondly, BMW better think long & hard of all the people in waiting for this M2... which are MANY. I am pounding on my 135is in hopes of ordering a M2.. but zero CF, or other quint stuff, then I will easily flip my cash towards Fords and get that GT350 for the same price.

Not as uppity, but I know that won't have BMW nannies, & will have way more potential on the track...

Well, we already know the M2 is not a true M car. Like the 1M, the M2 will be another parts bin car - M3/4 suspension, brakes, differential and the slightly tuned outgoing N55 engine.

I can always hope!

P.S. Here is my old 1M(sold but still in my possession) with CF roof(I think it was about 10 lbs lighter) and BBS FI(~7 lbs lighter at each corner) wheels.

[Lucky13]

Originally Posted by w3rkn

What..?
You are mad, if you think the 2-series M2 will be lighter than the 1-series 1M..!

BMW has not given ANY indication that the M2 will even be a real M-car, or offer such focus.. There is no way BMW will peal off 200lbs from the M235i... which is now as heavy as a Mustang.

I am not impressed, nor I am faithful that BMW will make the M2 a quintessential car. It will be pure marketing.. as we have not seen any M2's with CF bits.. which is a must for anyone paying BMW M's premium.


Secondly, BMW better think long & hard of all the people in waiting for this M2... which are MANY. I am pounding on my 135is in hopes of ordering a M2.. but zero CF, or other quint stuff, then I will easily flip my cash towards Fords and get
that GT350 for the same price.

Not as uppity, but I know that won't have BMW nannies, & will have way more potential on the track...

Dude, give up your Mustang BS. If your going to quote weights try the v8 Mustang that gained over 80 lbs and is well over 3700 lbs now. Gas mileage was released on some websites today and the mighty V8 gets 15 and the others may have got worse than the 2014 and are no match for a 228 at 5.0 seconds 0-60 in many tests from car sites. Please get your Ford, I will chip in since you can't afford a real car.

[w3rkn]

Originally Posted by Lucky13

Dude, give up your Mustang BS. If your going to quote weights try the v8 Mustang that gained over 80 lbs and is well over 3700 lbs now. Gas mileage was released on some websites today and the mighty V8 gets 15 and the others may have got worse than the 2014 and are no match for a 228 at 5.0 seconds 0-60 in many tests from car sites. Please get your Ford, I will chip in since you can't afford a real car.

Sorry bro.. none of your babble^ is about the M2, or handling... just drag racing and gas mileage, hey everyone look at me stuff.

And if you didn't notice, the Mustang GT is only $36k dude.


Lastly, to make you understand.. the Mustang GT350 is in the M2's price range.. I will be cross shopping them. So will many people it seems. Too bad you are so angry about someone mentioning it. ANd it will be an interesting shopping experience for most. Me included.

I don't plan on keeping my $52k BMW 135is, it has too short of a wheelbase, and too many mods to make it competent. So I will hold off and wait to see the battle between the 5.2 Ford, or the 3.0 TS BMW-M.. & how well each of these new chassis & suspensions compete/differ.

Also, before you try to silence or hitler me, understand when you start to cross shop, your stupid argument gets weaker, because we are talking about a $52k+, which is SVT territory, not GT.



I am not looking for what car is superior, only which one is competent and the most phun'est..!

[bubsterino]

Originally Posted by w3rkn

What..?
You are mad, if you think the 2-series M2 will be lighter than the 1-series 1M..!

BMW has not given ANY indication that the M2 will even be a real M-car, or offer such focus.. There is no way BMW will peal off 200lbs from the M235i... which is now as heavy as a Mustang.

I am not impressed, nor I am faithful that BMW will make the M2 a quintessential car. It will be pure marketing.. as we have not seen any M2's with CF bits.. which is a must for anyone paying BMW M's premium.


Secondly, BMW better think long & hard of all the people in waiting for this M2... which are MANY. I am pounding on my 135is in hopes of ordering a M2.. but zero CF, or other quint stuff, then I will easily flip my cash towards Fords and get that GT350 for the same price.

Not as uppity, but I know that won't have BMW nannies, & will have way more potential on the track...

are you honestly saying a CF roof is a deal breaker for you? that seems totally insane to me. why do you say that?

[w3rkn]

Originally Posted by bubsterino

are you honestly saying a CF roof is a deal breaker for you? that seems totally insane to me. why do you say that?

Because the epitome and focus of the M2 is about handling.. there is no more of a statement in engineering, than reducing the weight at the highest point on the car...

That exact reason is why CF roofs are on the M's.. not for looks, for a purpose.



Now..

If all-of-a-sudden... if BMW declares that purpose not worthy for the M2, it illustrates immediately that BMW is using it's heritage to sell M-car, not engineering..!

[bernstem]

Originally Posted by w3rkn

...There is no way BMW will peal off 200lbs from the M235i... which is now as heavy as a Mustang.

The M235 is 3505 lbs. with a manual. The Mustang is 3705 lbs. in GT trim with a manual. That is a 200 lb. difference.

Maybe you were thinking of getting the Mustang with the 2.3 liter, 4 cylinder eco-boost. That model is just a touch heavier than the M235 at 3532 lbs with a manual.

[phoenixbmwlife]

Originally Posted by bernstem

The M235 is 3505 lbs. with a manual. The Mustang is 3705 lbs. in GT trim with a manual. That is a 200 lb. difference.

Maybe you were thinking of getting the Mustang with the 2.3 liter, 4 cylinder eco-boost. That model is just a touch heavier than the M235 at 3532 lbs with a manual.

I was wondering where he was getting those weight numbers from. Sounded so off to me as mustangs have always been heavy.

Anyway I think the M2 will be lighter than the M235i so with more power a better chassis, stiffer suspension it will be incredible. It will be like an M235i that's lighter, stiffer, more controlled and more powerful.

[golf_234]

People's speculation is so bad. Just look in the direction the M3/M4 have gone, look at the already in production M235i, and there you have it, pretty much where the car will be. They will cut off about 200 lbs, obviously do the wide body, with upgraded wheels and tires, more agressive braking, motor is already pretty much known, more agressive bumpers and side skirts, etc, etc. Probably will have the cf roof. I mean it is pretty much common sense with so much to compare to. It will be a great car. Quad exhaust, etc, etc. There really isnt too much mystery to it. Spy photos everywhere.

[w3rkn]

Originally Posted by bernstem

The M235 is 3505 lbs. with a manual. The Mustang is 3705 lbs. in GT trim with a manual. That is a 200 lb. difference.

Maybe you were thinking of getting the Mustang with the 2.3 liter, 4 cylinder eco-boost. That model is just a touch heavier than the M235 at 3532 lbs with a manual.

Well..
That is because it comes will a spare tire and jack... I really don't think a GT350 will come with those, plus CF drive shafts are cheap in the Mustang world, so expect other things to drop the GT35o's weight.. (when comparing too the M2)

Or when they put in a v6 Turbo & produce +450ft-lbs.. in a SVT, it will be as light as a 2-series.




Secondly, I wasn't comparing the M235i to the GT (why?) I would compare it to the EB twin-scroll 2.3 that produces nearly the same HP (310hp/320tq) as the M235i (320hp/330tq) ..

Manual:
Mustang 3,532 lbs
BMW 3,502 lbs

Auto:
Mustang 3,524 lbs
BMW 3,535 lbs



There is no reason to compare the M235i to the Mustang GT, that is a much more performance orientated car and meant for the likes of M4. Nothing in the 2-series arsenal allows for it to take on +100hp cars w/lsd like the GT.

Coincidentally, the 135is/235is (BMW's) are not about HP, but about how the car functions and handles... that is why many of us are waiting for that refined feel in the M2, and how it corners, as thrust is secondary concern.

The reason so many are interested in cross shopping the M2 with the new Mustang is because of the track-oriented engineering in both. I bet both will be within 125lbs of each other.. but the stang has a longer wheelbase and might be wider, so... we wait.

I wonder how big of tires the M2 will be able to manage..

[bradleyland]

Originally Posted by w3rkn

Well..
That is because it comes will a spare tire and jack... I really don't think a GT350 will come with those, plus CF drive shafts are cheap in the Mustang world, so expect other things to drop the GT35o's weight.. (when comparing too the M2)

Or when they put in a v6 Turbo & produce +450ft-lbs.. in a SVT, it will be as light as a 2-series.




Secondly, I wasn't comparing the M235i to the GT (why?) I would compare it to the EB twin-scroll 2.3 that produces nearly the same HP (310hp/320tq) as the M235i (320hp/330tq) ..

Manual:
Mustang 3,532 lbs
BMW 3,502 lbs

Auto:
Mustang 3,524 lbs
BMW 3,535 lbs



There is no reason to compare the M235i to the Mustang GT, that is a much more performance orientated car and meant for the likes of M4. Nothing in the 2-series arsenal allows for it to take on +100hp cars w/lsd like the GT.

Coincidentally, the 135is/235is (BMW's) are not about HP, but about how the car functions and handles... that is why many of us are waiting for that refined feel in the M2, and how it corners, as thrust is secondary concern.

The reason so many are interested in cross shopping the M2 with the new Mustang is because of the track-oriented engineering in both. I bet both will be within 125lbs of each other.. but the stang has a longer wheelbase and might be wider, so... we wait.

I wonder how big of tires the M2 will be able to manage..

This is interesting, because I went and drove a Mustang GT when I was shopping an M235i vs M3 vs whatever else I could find. The reason I shopped the GT against the M235i (despite the difference specified performance) is because the V6 Mustang chassis was so soft. The GT is better, but it still feels like a bigger car. I think part of it has to do with the ridiculous steering wheel you get in the GT. I need to go drive one of the 2015 EcoBoost models with the track goodies. Although, honestly, if it's comparable with the M235i, I'd just get the M235i, because the interiors in the Mustang really turn me off. I do not dig the retro thing at all. They dialed it back (wisely) in the 2015, but the interior aesthetic is still decidedly retro.

This is probably the most prescient thing you said, as far as my interests are concerned:

"Coincidentally, the 135is/235is (BMW's) are not about HP, but about how the car functions and handles... that is why many of us are waiting for that refined feel in the M2, and how it corners, as thrust is secondary concern."

That is exactly why I ended up getting an M3 instead of going with the Mustang GT. I loved the V8 sound in the GT, but the chassis just wasn't there. Yes, I know that the GT is very competent when it comes to putting down lap times, but how it feels is more important to me, because I rarely ever need to "put down lap times".

I'll definitely be cross-shopping the M2 against everything and anything. If I can afford it, I'll cross-shop it. if the M2 ends up being a bargain, and it delivers the handling I'm looking for, then great. I'm not putting up any artificial barriers to my prospective list though. Even the Mustang 2.3 EB will be on my list of cars to drive, but I'm not optimistic given its increased size and my history with let downs in the feel department.

[3002 tii]

Originally Posted by ssabripo

Looks great, but I'm disappointed that it will be an N55 based engine, instead of the S55 derivative (detuned, etc).

One of the great things about the S55 was its cooling...that thing is track ready! I don't see how the N55 (with additional cooling, etc) will be a track adequate car, but I guess we'll have to see.

Same was said about the N54 but the 1M does pretty well on track in stock trim.

Originally Posted by Lucky13

Dude, give up your Mustang BS. If your going to quote weights try the v8 Mustang that gained over 80 lbs and is well over 3700 lbs now. Gas mileage was released on some websites today and the mighty V8 gets 15 and the others may have got worse than the 2014 and are no match for a 228 at 5.0 seconds 0-60 in many tests from car sites. Please get your Ford, I will chip in since you can't afford a real car.

I love how every BMW argument comes down to an insult about one's financial situation which is 120% speculation.

[bradleyland]

Originally Posted by 3002 tii

Same was said about the N54 but the 1M does pretty well on track in stock trim.

Not to mention, they race the M235i with the stock N55 and SF8 transmission. If that isn't a testament to its durability, I don't know what is.

[w3rkn]

Originally Posted by bradleyland

This is interesting, because I went and drove a Mustang GT when I was shopping an M235i vs M3 vs whatever else I could find. The reason I shopped the GT against the M235i (despite the difference specified performance) is because the V6 Mustang chassis was so soft. The GT is better, but it still feels like a bigger car. I think part of it has to do with the ridiculous steering wheel you get in the GT. I need to go drive one of the 2015 EcoBoost models with the track goodies. Although, honestly, if it's comparable with the M235i, I'd just get the M235i, because the interiors in the Mustang really turn me off. I do not dig the retro thing at all. They dialed it back (wisely) in the 2015, but the interior aesthetic is still decidedly retro.

This is probably the most prescient thing you said, as far as my interests are concerned:

"Coincidentally, the 135is/235is (BMW's) are not about HP, but about how the car functions and handles... that is why many of us are waiting for that refined feel in the M2, and how it corners, as thrust is secondary concern."

That is exactly why I ended up getting an M3 instead of going with the Mustang GT. I loved the V8 sound in the GT, but the chassis just wasn't there. Yes, I know that the GT is very competent when it comes to putting down lap times, but how it feels is more important to me, because I rarely ever need to "put down lap times".

I'll definitely be cross-shopping the M2 against everything and anything. If I can afford it, I'll cross-shop it. if the M2 ends up being a bargain, and it delivers the handling I'm looking for, then great. I'm not putting up any artificial barriers to my prospective list though. Even the Mustang 2.3 EB will be on my list of cars to drive, but I'm not optimistic given its increased size and my history with let downs in the feel department.

Yeah, but if the M2 is not decidedly special... thru engineering, then there is no point over a 235is. Other than marketing.

It comes down to the ride & handling, when cross-shopping though. I think the new Mustang will compete.

[Steven1077]

A mustang that handles? Is there such a thing?

[Diver]

Originally Posted by Steven1077

A mustang that handles? Is there such a thing?

In track tests a Mustang GT with the brake package was less than .1 second slower than an M3 (last generation). The 2015 will have an independent rear suspension too.

My view is the M2 has to come in at the same price range as the 1M to be successful. That means it will be a lot like the 1M, mostly parts box.

[w3rkn]

Originally Posted by Steven1077

A mustang that handles? Is there such a thing?

Yeah right..

That's what the general consensus thinks, until you see the videos of the new Stang on the nurb.

Then you're ... and on the new Mustang forums.



Like Diver said, the M2 needs to start at under $50k to be viable against it's new found competition. That also means the 235i will need a redux in price too, to stay competitive in the marketplace.

[bradleyland]

Originally Posted by Diver

In track tests a Mustang GT with the brake package was less than .1 second slower than an M3 (last generation). The 2015 will have an independent rear suspension too.

My view is the M2 has to come in at the same price range as the 1M to be successful. That means it will be a lot like the 1M, mostly parts box.

There's a difference between road holding and handling. Road holding will get you good lap times, even if the car handles poorly. Of course, you have to have competent handling to turn a good lap time.

I drove a 2014 Mustang GT just prior to making the decision to go with the M3. The way the two cars handle couldn't be more different. The GT goes fast, but it feels completely different. The steering feels much slower, and the car moves around a lot more, and the E92 M3 isn't exactly top of the heap when it comes to body control.

I'll be driving a 2015 Mustang GT, for sure, but I'm not ready to hand over my cash based on lap times alone. I have to like the way the car drives.