[F87source]

Originally Posted by fourthchirpin

u have pics of the ferrari strakes? really interesting.

Google Ferrari 296 underbody, I can't copy the images for some reason but here are some sources:

https://www.autodevot.com/2021/06/fe...-v6-4-decades/

https://www.f1technical.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=31427

This is very formula 1 esque, with how they're using floor fences to generate vortices to improve floor performance, and generate out wash to seal the floor.

But for the street car I suspect it's to push out the tire wake more than anything, so it doesn't impact floor performance - since the Ferrari does have a very flat floor benefits of being mid engine and not having exhaust pipes that need to be cooled, but you do lose a lot of diffuser volume as a result).


For our cars it'll be hard to replicate this without a proper 3d scan to run in cfd so we can see how he's to position these strakes to push out the tire wake. Also you don't want to put the strake in a region of dirty air flow because it won't be efficient, and you don't want to crank the angle of the strake too hard or else it'll flow separate and be less effective. Essentially it's not as simply as adding strakes and expecting huge benefits.

I think we'd get more benefits venting the wheel well and removing all that positive pressure, it'll decrease lift which is always a good thing.

[fourthchirpin]

Originally Posted by F87source

Google Ferrari 296 underbody, I can't copy the images for some reason but here are some sources:

https://www.autodevot.com/2021/06/fe...-v6-4-decades/

https://www.f1technical.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=31427

This is very formula 1 esque, with how they're using floor fences to generate vortices to improve floor performance, and generate out wash to seal the floor.

But for the street car I suspect it's to push out the tire wake more than anything, so it doesn't impact floor performance - since the Ferrari does have a very flat floor benefits of being mid engine and not having exhaust pipes that need to be cooled, but you do lose a lot of diffuser volume as a result).


For our cars it'll be hard to replicate this without a proper 3d scan to run in cfd so we can see how he's to position these strakes to push out the tire wake. Also you don't want to put the strake in a region of dirty air flow because it won't be efficient, and you don't want to crank the angle of the strake too hard or else it'll flow separate and be less effective. Essentially it's not as simply as adding strakes and expecting huge benefits.

I think we'd get more benefits venting the wheel well and removing all that positive pressure, it'll decrease lift which is always a good thing.

just copy the RB19 design lol. def cool and I think its doable just someone needs to put time into it. It might not be as bad as we think. We know where we want air and where we dont. that will be a good starting point.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by fourthchirpin

just copy the RB19 design lol. def cool and I think its doable just someone needs to put time into it. It might not be as bad as we think. We know where we want air and where we dont. that will be a good starting point.

Lol, we don't have venturi tunnels can't copy a ground effect car. It's better to copy what Porsche and Ferrari have done on their road cars.


I don't think it'll be easy without a proper 3d model scan (including the wheels and tires) to run in cfd and see what the tire wake is doing and how flow is behaving in this region. The strakes aren't impossible nor hard we just need the 3d scan and an actual aerodynamicist to do things right and efficiently. The flat floor might be impossible on a street m2, unless you want to make major modifications.

Second the under side of the m2 isn't great, the stiffening plate in this area has a raised lip all the way around, so flow coming off of that is probably a disaster. Also where would we even mount it? How do we even drill it?

[fourthchirpin]

Originally Posted by F87source

Lol, we don't have venturi tunnels can't copy a ground effect car. It's better to copy what Porsche and Ferrari have done on their road cars.


I don't think it'll be easy without a proper 3d model scan (including the wheels and tires) to run in cfd and see what the tire wake is doing and how flow is behaving in this region. The strakes aren't impossible nor hard we just need the 3d scan and an actual aerodynamicist to do things right and efficiently. The flat floor might be impossible on a street m2, unless you want to make major modifications.

Second the under side of the m2 isn't great, the stiffening plate in this area has a raised lip all the way around, so flow coming off of that is probably a disaster. Also where would we even mount it? How do we even drill it?

if someone wants to fabricate these things will be very easy. for easy removal etc. it gets harder and such but not impossible. It all depends on how much work one wants to do on a street car or a track only car.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by fourthchirpin

if someone wants to fabricate these things will be very easy. for easy removal etc. it gets harder and such but not impossible. It all depends on how much work one wants to do on a street car or a track only car.

Tbh fabrication is the easy part. The aero work and the design work is the hard part. How high will the tunnels be? How will you ingest air in a sufficient volume to make the venturi effect work? How do you deal with varying ride height? How close does the tunnel have to be to the ground? How do you seal the tunnels? How do you ensure the tunnels don't hit the road, because the m2's underbody clearance isn't that high. How do you pick suspension to deal with the extra downforce but still he compliant enough to tolerate bumps. How do you deal with brake dive and the tunnel opening being closer to the ground lowering the amount of air flow going through the tunnels meaning less downforce and less grip?


These are not easy questions to answer, and even the f1 teams with billion dollar facilities, the best wind tunnels and the best CFD tools and engineers got wrong in 2022. Ground effects is an insanely tough challenge that I doubt the average fabricator or even engineer will accomplish with great success, or manage to make a floor that produces substantially more downforce than just a simple flat floor.



A flat floor on the other hand is much simpler and significantly doable if you want to make sacrifices to the cars Street ability and just make the exhaust a side exit, and deal with the suspension components hitting the floor. Still a lot of CFD work needs to be done to do it right, otherwise the aero gains might not be worth the effort.


Adding strakes by itself without CFD work may not accomplish anything either, so it's not the fabrication that's hard, it's doing it properly design wise that's hard.

[fourthchirpin]

Originally Posted by F87source

Tbh fabrication is the easy part. The aero work and the design work is the hard part. How high will the tunnels be? How will you ingest air in a sufficient volume to make the venturi effect work? How do you deal with varying ride height? How close does the tunnel have to be to the ground? How do you seal the tunnels? How do you ensure the tunnels don't hit the road, because the m2's underbody clearance isn't that high. How do you pick suspension to deal with the extra downforce but still he compliant enough to tolerate bumps. How do you deal with brake dive and the tunnel opening being closer to the ground lowering the amount of air flow going through the tunnels meaning less downforce and less grip?


These are not easy questions to answer, and even the f1 teams with billion dollar facilities, the best wind tunnels and the best CFD tools and engineers got wrong in 2022. Ground effects is an insanely tough challenge that I doubt the average fabricator or even engineer will accomplish with great success, or manage to make a floor that produces substantially more downforce than just a simple flat floor.



A flat floor on the other hand is much simpler and significantly doable if you want to make sacrifices to the cars Street ability and just make the exhaust a side exit, and deal with the suspension components hitting the floor. Still a lot of CFD work needs to be done to do it right, otherwise the aero gains might not be worth the effort.


Adding strakes by itself without CFD work may not accomplish anything either, so it's not the fabrication that's hard, it's doing it properly design wise that's hard.

i agree with everything u said.