[F87source]

I gotta clarify one more thing:

Given that mass and material type used is the same, and the term stress to be force required to bend an object:

The tubular item will be more rigid than a flat item. This is because the tubular item has "more area" or material to take the load in all different directions. For instance a sheet of paper vs. that same piece of paper but rolled up into a tube. You will notice that the rolled up piece of paper can be held up parallel to the ground in the axis of its thinnest diamension (aka length of the tube parallel to the ground) without bending, while a flat sheet of paper cannot be held up parallel to the ground in the axis of its thinnest diamension (aka writing surface parallel to the ground).


This happens because a rolled up tube of paper has more material to support its weight, you effectively now have paper rolled up 360 degrees around a central axis. This allows it to take stress from all directions, and there is paper in all angles now able to take a small component of stress allowing the tube to be stronger in all directions vs. the flat sheet of paper (which is only capable of taking alot of stress in its long directions - i.e. the paper is great at support itself when you hold it perpendicular to the ground thin side up). This doesn't mention that when you try to bend the paper you force one side into tension and one side into compression (just like the flat piece of paper) but now you have more paper on all sides of the tube which all have the same ability to take these forces so again more components to take stress.


But at the end of the day this same principal applies to the braces. A flat brace is going to be much more flexible than a tubular brace, and this is exemplified because the material choices are different, and the sizes are all different.


Note: if both objects with similar size and material are tubes the solid one (or the one with internal scaffolding) is going to be much stiffer and stronger, but it will also be much heavier. If materials are different and sizes are different enough to compensate for the strength difference in materials, then the comparison becomes vastly more complicated. But so far it isn't too bad since all the alternative braces are made of a less rigid material than carbon fiber.

[shaneguags]

Originally Posted by F87source

I gotta clarify one more thing:

Given that mass and material type used is the same, and the term stress to be force required to bend an object:

The tubular item will be more rigid than a flat item. This is because the tubular item has "more area" or material to take the load in all different directions. For instance a sheet of paper vs. that same piece of paper but rolled up into a tube. You will notice that the rolled up piece of paper can be held up parallel to the ground in the axis of its thinnest diamension (aka length of the tube parallel to the ground) without bending, while a flat sheet of paper cannot be held up parallel to the ground in the axis of its thinnest diamension (aka writing surface parallel to the ground).


This happens because a rolled up tube of paper has more material to support its weight, you effectively now have paper rolled up 360 degrees around a central axis. This allows it to take stress from all directions, and there is paper in all angles now able to take a small component of stress allowing the tube to be stronger in all directions vs. the flat sheet of paper (which is only capable of taking alot of stress in its long directions - i.e. the paper is great at support itself when you hold it perpendicular to the ground thin side up). This doesn't mention that when you try to bend the paper you force one side into tension and one side into compression (just like the flat piece of paper) but now you have more paper on all sides of the tube which all have the same ability to take these forces so again more components to take [...]

makes sense yea seems like the Tuner are the way to go. I just hate how expensive they are. $630 seems so much for what it is.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by shaneguags

makes sense yea seems like the Tuner are the way to go. I just hate how expensive they are. $630 seems so much for what it is.

Yeah I think that is the case too, unless stronger alternatives come out.


It does go on sale once in awhile, and around $500 USD iirc.

[shaneguags]

Originally Posted by F87source

Yeah I think that is the case too, unless stronger alternatives come out.


It does go on sale once in awhile, and around $500 USD iirc.

yea that’s more reasonable. I would love to pair it with the Wiechers Front Racingline Strut Tower Brace - Carbon Fiber. you know if that bar is any good ?

[F87source]

Originally Posted by shaneguags

yea that’s more reasonable. I would love to pair it with the Wiechers Front Racingline Strut Tower Brace - Carbon Fiber. you know if that bar is any good ?

I have heard alot of good things about the weichers bar, but I doubt its going to be as strong and rigid as the afe bar despite it being carbon, that's because the afe bar is just so much bigger and better braced.

For instance even if you have a weaker material, if you have enough of it (mass) you can compensate for it being weaker. For eg. Aluminum foil vs. a tissue paper, piece for piece the aluminum is much stronger. But if you stack say a thousand sheets of tissue vs. 1 sheet of aluminum, the thousand sheets tissue will be much stronger, but at the cost of weight and size.


The same applies for metals, since there is just so much more brace with the afe bar, it would take a much larger carbon brace to keep up.


In summary it's not only strength to weight that matters it's the amount of material available, this makes comparisons quite difficult if there is a large variation in size and mass. This generally isn't the case with 90% of the braces on the market because they have to fit in the same constraints and everyone generally wants to make light weight parts but in this case there is a significant difference. Wheel bolts are the easiest comparison, grade 12.9 vs. Titanium grade 5, both must be the same size but the titanium bolts will be much weaker but lighter. Why? Titanium may have a better strength to weight ratio, meaning when both are the same weight the titanium will be much stronger than the steel. However in this case the mass difference between the 2 is so extreme the steel ends up being much stronger. So you can see there is a point where a weaker metal can be stronger, if given enough mass. The difficulty in comparison here is how much less mass can the stronger metal have, before the strength difference is overcome.


Note: this is just talking about slabs of metal and not even factoring in clever design of the brace.

[shaneguags]

Originally Posted by F87source

I have heard alot of good things about the weichers bar, but I doubt its going to be as strong and rigid as the afe bar despite it being carbon, that's because the afe bar is just so much bigger and better braced.

For instance even if you have a weaker material, if you have enough of it (mass) you can compensate for it being weaker. For eg. Aluminum foil vs. a tissue paper, piece for piece the aluminum is much stronger. But if you stack say a thousand sheets of tissue vs. 1 sheet of aluminum, the thousand sheets tissue will be much stronger, but at the cost of weight and size.


The same applies for metals, since there is just so much more brace with the afe bar, it would take a much larger carbon brace to keep up.


In summary it's not only strength to weight that matters it's the amount of material available, this makes comparisons quite difficult if there is a large variation in size and mass. This generally isn't the case with 90% of the braces on the market because they have to fit in the same constraints and everyone generally wants to make light weight parts but in this case there is a significant difference. Wheel bolts are the easiest comparison, grade 12.9 vs. Titanium grade 5, both must be the same size but the titanium bolts will be much weaker but lighter. Why? Titanium may have a better strength to weight ratio, meaning when both are the same weight the titanium will be much stronger than the steel. However in this case the mass difference between the 2 is so extreme the steel ends up being much stronger. So you can see there is a point where a weaker [...]

wouldn’t you think the aFe is less effective knowing that it’s much heavier than the carbon one ? You think aFe’s strength output outperforms the weight variable brtween the two ? I guess I can see the design being better but it just looks so loud in the engine bay. I wanted something more lowkey while still performing its best not to mention, I think the carbon would match everything really nice

[shaneguags]

just found this setup with the Wiechers strut bar. Any idea what the other bar attached to it is called ? I really like this setup

[F87source]

Originally Posted by shaneguags

wouldn’t you think the aFe is less effective knowing that it’s much heavier than the carbon one ? You think aFe’s strength output outperforms the weight variable brtween the two ? I guess I can see the design being better but it just looks so loud in the engine bay. I wanted something more lowkey while still performing its best not to mention, I think the carbon would match everything really nice

If you calculate it to a per weight ratio then that could be the case, but I don't know how much more rigidity you're going to get vs. the weight you're going to gain (and the rule of thumb is that there is no such thing as too much bracing unless you're adding too much weight that handling is negatively affected). But in terms of ultimate rigidity, sheer, compressive and tensile strength the AFE brace is unrivaled. So even if it's to weight ratio is lower, the afe brace likely has a much higher actual rigidity in practice - so if you're looking for maximum rigidity the afe brace is the way to go, if weight is a concern go with a lighter brace or go braceless if weight is an extreme concern. Imo the afe brace really isn't that heavy even compared to the m4's braces so I'd just get that over everything else.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by shaneguags

just found this setup with the Wiechers strut bar. Any idea what the other bar attacked to it is called ? I really like this setup

Interesting, that might be a difference maker.

[shaneguags]

Originally Posted by F87source

Interesting, that might be a difference maker.

I asked the guy, curious to what that bar is. I can’t seem to find it anywhere

[SM2]

I thought the M3/M4 not the carbon piece but the aluminum metal brace stiffened up the chasis quite a bit.

[shaneguags]

Originally Posted by SM2

I thought the M3/M4 not the carbon piece but the aluminum metal brace stiffened up the chasis quite a bit.

Could I run that and a top strut bar ?

[SM2]

Originally Posted by shaneguags

Could I run that and a top strut bar ?

I don’t know about that one. You need different suspension top hats mounts so I assume the aftermarket probably wouldn’t work.

[shaneguags]

Originally Posted by SM2

I don’t know about that one. You need different suspension top hats mounts so I assume the aftermarket probably wouldn’t work.

ah shoot. if I just ran the upper OEM brace you think if would help a lot ? I kinda like the fact that it’s tucked away up top and hidden. What parts would I need for all of this besides the brace itself ?

[DrKevM5]

Originally Posted by TargaM2

Probably not of great benefit then, I’d say spend your money elsewhere.
I noticed you mentioned drag racing, have you done the driveshaft carrier upgrade ?, I have one of them at home waiting to go on & would expect this would be beneficial to what you do with your car. Maybe take look at this… https://youtu.be/6p2ASxic2II

Excellent recommendation. Thanks!

[F87source]

Originally Posted by shaneguags

ah shoot. if I just ran the upper OEM brace you think if would help a lot ? I kinda like the fact that it’s tucked away up top and hidden. What parts would I need for all of this besides the brace itself ?

Yeah you'd probably notice an improvement because it's better at bracing the strut towers.

You'd need to get new strut mounts but the m2c or m3 m4 variants, either stock or camber plates will do.

Then you'd need a bunch of bolts and the metal brace - which is really cheap these days at around $300.

[shaneguags]

Originally Posted by F87source

Yeah you'd probably notice an improvement because it's better at bracing the strut towers.

You'd need to get new strut mounts but the m2c or m3 m4 variants, either stock or camber plates will do.

Then you'd need a bunch of bolts and the metal brace - which is really cheap these days at around $300.

you think this is bettet than an actual aftermarket solition though ? seems priced well for what it is

[shaneguags]

I just got a response from the guy and he said it was made for a customer. It was a carbon fiber performance damper kit that is made in Taiwan. It seems like a really solid kit. He said it’s made in a factory and unbranded. Apparently it’s 9000 - 13000 yuan which is roughly $1290 - $1860 (before shipping and tax if there are any)

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?sto...ibextid=qC1gEa

[F87source]

Originally Posted by shaneguags

I just got a response from the guy and he said it was made for a customer. It was a carbon fiber performance damper kit that is made in Taiwan. It seems like a really solid kit. He said it’s made in a factory and unbranded. Apparently it’s 9000 - 13000 yuan which is roughly $1290 - $1860 (before shipping and tax if there are any)

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?sto...ibextid=qC1gEa

Very nice! But that is very expensive.

But what does he mean by "damper", damper implies allowed movement and absorption of shock due to movement, braces shouldn't allow for anything to move.

[shaneguags]

Originally Posted by F87source

Very nice! But that is very expensive.

it probably helps a lot though I bet

[shaneguags]

other photos didn’t upload, this is the rest of the kit

[F87source]

Originally Posted by shaneguags

you think this is bettet than an actual aftermarket solition though ? seems priced well for what it is

No, the factory aluminium brace is miles better than the stock stamped steel fire wall brace we have from factory. But it still can't compete with something like the afe brace in terms of bracing the strut towers from movement towards and away from each other. It will be better at bracing in the direction to and from the firewall along with the up and down direction. This is where upgrade corner braces will help.