[KevinM]

Originally Posted by matmanx1

I have no skin in the game here as I don't own any of these cars but am thinking about both a 718 (Cayman would be my preference but a Boxster would be ok to) and an M2C for my next ride. I'm coming from a Macan GTS and while it was being serviced at the dealership this week I had a 2019 718 Boxster PDK equipped base as my loaner car for half a day.

Based on the internet I expected to hate it. A flat 4 in a Porsche? Bleh! It didn't have Sport Chrono or any other performance options and other than a few creature comforts it was a lightly optioned car. And somehow I loved every minute of it.

The chassis had a sweetness to it that was one of the most delightful things I have ever experienced in the car. The steering was the best EPS system I have ever laid hands on. The motor, which I expected to be terrible, was actually pretty entertaining in character and had plenty of torque and shove for such a light car (also helped by the PDK I think).

I got stuck in traffic on the Interstate going to the BMW dealership and even puttering along slowly was really fun. The ride was far, far better than I thought it would be (19" wheels) and the noise and refinement levels were also much better than I thought. Yes, it was louder at speed than my Macan (which is a very quiet car unless it is in Sport +) but it was not too loud to be acceptable for a daily.

Overall, the 718 Boxster felt to me very much like a faster more luxurious Miata (I owned an NC Miata for several years and it remains one of my favorite pure sports cars) and that is high praise coming from me.

I say all that to say that my goal was the BMW dealership and a test drive in an M240i but after getting out of the 718 the M240i felt fairly boring. The sales manager suggested he could get really aggressive with pricing on an M2C so I have an appointment tomorrow to check one of those out and I am extremely interested to find out for myself how I feel about an M2C versus the 718.

The 718 surprised me in a really good way and I am hoping that I will like the M2C just as well. It is the more practical and less expensive car.

Having been in this situation, it really depends what you want from the car. If you want a "special" dedicated sports car, it will be hard to go wrong with a 718 Cayman. I've had enough seat time to appreciate the chassis, steering and manual box. In comparison to the 981, the low end torque makes it a better DD, but the flat six of course has more character.

If you want a DD that is somewhat a sleeper (at least compared to the Cayman) with a nice MT, abudant low-end torque, and decent steering feel, the M2C is hard to beat.

[Davil]

They either need to hire an overseas guy that does the important part of the reviews like other US mags or just rename it Car & Passenger.

[CSBM5]

Originally Posted by matmanx1

I say all that to say that my goal was the BMW dealership and a test drive in an M240i but after getting out of the 718 the M240i felt fairly boring. The sales manager suggested he could get really aggressive with pricing on an M2C so I have an appointment tomorrow to check one of those out and I am extremely interested to find out for myself how I feel about an M2C versus the 718.

A couple of days ago I had the chance a second time this year to autocross the M240i at the Perf Center (CCA O'fest is going on here this week), and the difference between my M2C and the M240i is huge. I'm exaggerating a bit, but they didn't even feel like the same car as I got into the M2C after the day's events.

Slight aside - we hot lapped M4 Competitions on the large course, and that car was far, far more capable and better than I've given it credit in the past. The difference between a 2015 M4 and a 2019 M4 Comp is apparently a lot. We all had a blast with those cars, and many of us were current or former instructors, racers, autocrossers, etc. It's fun being here for O'fest (50th one) and BMW opening up the Performance Center like they have for everyone to just have a blast with these cars. I really appreciate them doing so. The enthusiast core of the company is still alive and well here in Greenville SC that's for sure.

Two days later I was just nailing down some amazing times at the official CCA autocross (for your personally owned cars) at the Michelin Proving Grounds. The M2C surprised me very much on course at it's ability to hook hard coming off elements and then as boost builds and torque surges, to almost stay hooked up out back most of the time, but if not then a slight to moderate lift and the power and tail were amazingly controllable. I've been autocrossing for over 40 years, and this thing was incredible. Of course a helpful part of that was using RE-71R tires, but the car is totally stock and run in stock class since the tires are TW200 rated. In any event, this was my first autocross in the M2C, and it allowed my adaptation curve to soar immediately such that I set a fantastic time by my fourth run (we got six total runs).

[akkando]

[QUOTE=Tiss'er;25319827]

Originally Posted by ///AVM

I think for most of us, longevity of the vehicle comes into play in our decision. I feel confident in the build of BMW these days.

That's part of the reason these magazine comparisons suck. They get to beat on these cars for free and they are not buyers, they are not living with the car daily.

For them the engine failures are not a consideration as long as it doesn't happen during their test.

[matmanx1]

Originally Posted by KevinM

Having been in this situation, it really depends what you want from the car. If you want a "special" dedicated sports car, it will be hard to go wrong with a 718 Cayman. I've had enough seat time to appreciate the chassis, steering and manual box. In comparison to the 981, the low end torque makes it a better DD, but the flat six of course has more character.

If you want a DD that is somewhat a sleeper (at least compared to the Cayman) with a nice MT, abudant low-end torque, and decent steering feel, the M2C is hard to beat.

Thanks for the perspective. I appreciate it. I was all set to go for a test in the M2C today but we've had a Tropical Storm so the test drive was rescheduled for next weekend, schedule permitting. Once I've had some seat time I'll report back.

[heavyD^2]

[QUOTE=akkando;25364931]

Originally Posted by Tiss'er

That's part of the reason these magazine comparisons suck. They get to beat on these cars for free and they are not buyers, they are not living with the car daily.

For them the engine failures are not a consideration as long as it doesn't happen during their test.

All the magazines do long term tests on vehicles and it's not practical to do a yar long evaluation comparison on sports cars. Nothing sucks at all about their comparisons except when your personal car of choice doesn't win.

[windnsea00]

I can add to this on the GT350 front, mine at 22k miles is on its 3rd engine, 2nd transmission and clutch, 2nd alternator, 2nd battery, 2nd right rear wheel bearing...not the paragon of quality even though I love driving it.

My 2018 M2 at 27k miles has been fine other than an exhaust rattle and the right rear turn signal malfunctioning intermittently.

My 2019 M2 at 5k miles has been perfect so far, as one would expect.

[5.M0NSTER]

Originally Posted by windnsea00

I can add to this on the GT350 front, mine at 22k miles is on its 3rd engine, 2nd transmission and clutch, 2nd alternator, 2nd battery, 2nd right rear wheel bearing...not the paragon of quality even though I love driving it.

My 2018 M2 at 27k miles has been fine other than an exhaust rattle and the right rear turn signal malfunctioning intermittently.

My 2019 M2 at 5k miles has been perfect so far, as one would expect.

What year is your GT350? That all sounds awful.

[1mm2]

Originally Posted by windnsea00

I can add to this on the GT350 front, mine at 22k miles is on its 3rd engine, 2nd transmission and clutch, 2nd alternator, 2nd battery, 2nd right rear wheel bearing...not the paragon of quality even though I love driving it.

3rd engine?

3 money shifts?

Is that a record?

[richard in NC]

Originally Posted by CSBM5

A couple of days ago I had the chance a second time this year to autocross the M240i at the Perf Center (CCA O'fest is going on here this week), and the difference between my M2C and the M240i is huge. I'm exaggerating a bit, but they didn't even feel like the same car as I got into the M2C after the day's events.

Slight aside - we hot lapped M4 Competitions on the large course, and that car was far, far more capable and better than I've given it credit in the past. The difference between a 2015 M4 and a 2019 M4 Comp is apparently a lot. We all had a blast with those cars, and many of us were current or former instructors, racers, autocrossers, etc. It's fun being here for O'fest (50th one) and BMW opening up the Performance Center like they have for everyone to just have a blast with these cars. I really appreciate them doing so. The enthusiast core of the company is still alive and well here in Greenville SC that's for sure.

Two days later I was just nailing down some amazing times at the official CCA autocross (for your personally owned cars) at the Michelin Proving Grounds. The M2C surprised me very much on course at it's ability to hook hard coming off elements and then as boost builds and torque surges, to almost stay hooked up out back most of the time, but if not then a slight to moderate lift and the power and tail were amazingly controllable. I've been autocrossing for over 40 years, and this thing was incredible. Of course a helpful part of that was using RE-71R tires, but the car is totally stock and run in stock class since the tires are TW200 rated. In any event, this was my first autocross in the M2C, and it allowed my adaptation curve to soar immediately such that I set a fantastic time by my fourth run (we got six total runs).

I should have tried hooking up with you. I did the Performance Center event Tuesday morning and the autocross on Thursday as well. A number of M2 Competitions were there, 3 of us in Sunset Orange! Mine is still stock with the PSS. I didn't push it as hard as I could/should have and got respectable times. Loved the way it handled the course.
My friend in his LBB M2C got crazy fast times. His only mod being camber plates.

EDIT: I did snap a photo of your car in line Also, if you were in the blue run group, I was the one handing out time slips ...

[windnsea00]

Originally Posted by 5.M0NSTER

What year is your GT350? That all sounds awful.

2018, bought new 3/2018.

Originally Posted by 1mm2

3rd engine?

3 money shifts?

Is that a record?

Negative.

[CSBM5]

Originally Posted by richard in NC

I should have tried hooking up with you. I did the Performance Center event Tuesday morning and the autocross on Thursday as well. A number of M2 Competitions were there, 3 of us in Sunset Orange! Mine is still stock with the PSS. I didn't push it as hard as I could/should have and got respectable times. Loved the way it handled the course.
My friend in his LBB M2C got crazy fast times. His only mod being camber plates.

EDIT: I did snap a photo of your car in line Also, if you were in the blue run group, I was the one handing out time slips ...

Yep, we should have chatted about M2Cs. I was in the blue, first, run group, and I do recall you now from the timeslips. I nailed down some incredible times (47.918 fastest) and ended up winning S1 class by over 2 seconds. Course was incredibly fun!

[Tiss'er]

Originally Posted by windnsea00

I can add to this on the GT350 front, mine at 22k miles is on its 3rd engine, 2nd transmission and clutch, 2nd alternator, 2nd battery, 2nd right rear wheel bearing...not the paragon of quality even though I love driving it.

Sucks. I so want to put this car on my list of next cars. Seems like the Alfa may actually be a more reliable option, not sure I would ever say that.

[natmad]

The title of this thread starts with “M2C comes in last...”

Here’s my post I just dropped in the M2C vs Supra thread.

The M2C didn’t come in last...

From Motor Trends 2019 Best Drivers Car Shootout at Laguna Seca Raceway:

Pro hot shoe Randy Pobst ranked the 12 cars at Laguna Seca in this year’s BDC test.

Toyota Supra ranked #9, Randy says...

A true sports car. Quick beyond its power numbers, it responds directly to driver requests. Shock control is too soft for track work, but it's well controlled on the street. A fair amount of midcorner oversteer requires a light touch when tipping into the throttle. A bit of isolation in the steering.

BMW M2 Competition ranked #4, Randy says...

There's harmony in the way the front and rear tires work together in a corner. This balance rewards the driver every time the wheel turns. Like whipping the flanks of a race horse, I caned the M2 around the circuit as it begged for more. This driver's car urges on the driver.

The only cars ranked higher by Randy as best driver’s car at Laguna Seca...

#1 Porsche Carrera S
#2 McLaren Senna
#3 Ford GT 350

From the twisty California backroads portion of the test:

In fact, the great little BMW M2 Competition generated quite a bit of buzz. Problem is, this car finished third out of three behind a Porsche Cayman and a winning Toyota Supra in a comparison test just a couple months earlier. And by this car, I mean this car. "According to its VIN, this is the same M2 Competition we had for the 718 Cayman/Supra comparison," Walton said. "But it feels like a sweetheart today: alert, pointy, planted. I can confidently trail-brake it into a corner."

There was more continuity trouble, too. Namely, many of us felt there was something wrong with the Supra (though it had a different VIN from the test winner). "The Toyota Supra should have been quick and nimble," international bureau chief Angus MacKenzie said, "but it felt strangely discombobulated, ducking and weaving all over the road like a bloodhound on amphetamines." I experienced the exact same thing. Hmm.

So... in a previous 3 car comparison, the Supra topped the M2C, which had some press car abuse brake issues at the time of the test. So there’s that. In the 12 car Best Driver’s Car comparison, the M2C easily outranks the Supra, on the road and the track, as a driver’s car!

Funny though, the Supra’s lap time at Laguna Seca was slightly quicker than the M2C. Go figure. They surmise that the Supra’s Power is underrated. You think?

Well, I like driving my M2C.

Addition: Randy’s take on the GT 350...

The 2019 GT350 arrives adding better balance and braking to its already terrific on-track behavior. Previous complaints of midcorner oversteer and touchy brakes have been addressed, resulting in far greater stability and consistency.

[windnsea00]

Originally Posted by Tiss'er

Sucks. I so want to put this car on my list of next cars. Seems like the Alfa may actually be a more reliable option, not sure I would ever say that.

Supposedly the 2019 model has lots of little updates that should make it a better package, I obviously got a lemon but still find it an amazing car.

[Davil]

Originally Posted by windnsea00

Supposedly the 2019 model has lots of little updates that should make it a better package, I obviously got a lemon but still find it an amazing car.

In the recent Head 2 Head with the 2019 model v Supra, the front fell off and it overheated after 1 lap.

[Conissah]

Originally Posted by Davil

In the recent Head 2 Head with the 2019 model v Supra, the front fell off and it overheated after 1 lap.

Bit confused. Can you link the article/video?

[heavyD^2]

Originally Posted by windnsea00

2018, bought new 3/2018.


Negative.

Oil consumption? That's the biggest complaint I have seen from the flat plane crank engine.

[heavyD^2]

Originally Posted by Davil

They either need to hire an overseas guy that does the important part of the reviews like other US mags or just rename it Car & Passenger.

Not going to find a lot of overseas drivers better than Randy Pobst and he in Motortrend's Best Drivers Car test also complained about the M2C brakes. There's clearly an issue with them.

https://www.motortrend.com/news/rand...vers-car-2019/

Randy: "I'm a little bit let down. I'm let down by the brakes. They got kinda hot. Actually got knock back in the corkscrew."

[windnsea00]

Originally Posted by heavyD^2

Oil consumption? That's the biggest complaint I have seen from the flat plane crank engine.

Engine #1 started to have major oil consumption right before it went, the 2nd engine was fine on oil consumption. Probably won't get to test engine #3 as I'm in the middle of a Lemon Law case with Ford.

Here is a 100 page thread on people who have had their engine go: https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/thr...engine.104010/

[Davil]

Originally Posted by heavyD^2

Not going to find a lot of overseas drivers better than Randy Pobst and he in Motortrend's Best Drivers Car test also complained about the M2C brakes. There's clearly an issue with them.

https://www.motortrend.com/news/rand...vers-car-2019/

Not what I meant. Pobst is next level.

What I referring to is that when the C grade journos that don't know what they are doing test cars, versus having someone with insight on the team.

The best example I have seen is Motor Trend's C grade team do the recent compare and panning the M2C. Then when they are working with the A team, they all change their minds. A team includes Pobst and Jethro.

[Davil]

Originally Posted by Conissah

Bit confused. Can you link the article/video?

It's the Motor Trend head to head series. I believe you need to subscribe to view it. They still picked the Mustang ahead of the Supra after whisking Pobst off rather quickly when he mentioned that it was overheating after one lap.