[paliknight]

Originally Posted by Cannondale900

I'm torn here between wanting the car that at least has *some* memories attached to it from Europe vs. a replacement. The issue with the car that has memories attached is that it will have had a motor replacement at 557miles on the odo.

I never sell my cars until they are 10 years old with at least 150k miles on the clock but which car will have better overall resale value? I think a new one with no motor replacement....no?

I also never had a chance to take the European trinkets like warning triangle and first aid kid. I would also want the plates as a memory.

Dump it and get a replacement. I'd avoid it like the plague. What memories? A new car breaking down on you during your vacation? Cause that'll be the biggest thing you remember from it.

[chris719]

Originally Posted by Cannondale900

I'm torn here between wanting the car that at least has *some* memories attached to it from Europe vs. a replacement. The issue with the car that has memories attached is that it will have had a motor replacement at 557miles on the odo.

I never sell my cars until they are 10 years old with at least 150k miles on the clock but which car will have better overall resale value? I think a new one with no motor replacement....no?

I also never had a chance to take the European trinkets like warning triangle and first aid kid. I would also want the plates as a memory.

If they are offering a new car, take it. A replacement motor is not the end of the world, though, unless you want to flip it.

[medphysdave]

I'm surprised by folks that are afraid of a new engine. It's new, and likely a lot of care will go into making things right. On the flip side if you could get a model year newer, then that would be nice.

Personally I'd try for a new motor, and an extensive extended warranty. As well as an all expense paid Euro re-delivery.

[Cannondale900]

Originally Posted by medphysdave

I'm surprised by folks that are afraid of a new engine. It's new, and likely a lot of care will go into making things right. On the flip side if you could get a model year newer, then that would be nice.

Personally I'd try for a new motor, and an extensive extended warranty. As well as an all expense paid Euro re-delivery.

I'm not afraid of a new motor necessarily as I do plan to keep the car for a long time. That said, I always plan multiple exit strategies and if I had to sell the car for any reason, I would think a car that didn't need a motor replacement would be worth more.

The all-expense paid re-delivery idea is something I was thinking about and is really hitting me hard. This triggered me so I'm going to get this off my chest.

I get that this is totally a first world problem and I'm risking sounding like a whiner here but this was my only real vacation this year and I had built it up to be a magnificent experience for myself and my wife. The car was for me, and the trip was for my wife's 40th birthday. It was combining the best of what we both like in autos and travel......and it was our first trip without the kids in over three years. We both needed and deserved a break from our schedules and the kids' schedules. We're fortunate enough to have capable grandparents near us who could rotate watching kids so we lined it all up.

I kept describing the first four days as "more fun than you should legally be allowed to have".....and it truly was. At the risk of sounding dramatic, I often found myself overwhelmed with joy at what we were experiencing. We took in old town Munich the day of our arrival. The following day we took delivery of a new car at a lovely facility and were treated excellently at the Welt. We then headed to Hallstatt which was picturesque...stayed in a lovely hotel on the town square and had a great hike to the waterfall behind town. We moved on to St Gilgen and stayed there as a base for a great day trip to Salzburg. We then left St Gilgen on Saturday early and headed to Vienna for the day, leaving Vienna for Prague that same day. It was that Saturday leg to Prague where things fell apart.

I'm a car guy that likes to tinker. I've rebuilt an M30 (nowhere near as complicated as an S55) motor myself and made my own E34 535iT 5-spd (never came from factory this way). I have a tuned E61 535xiT and an E34 M5. I've had seven BMWs over the last 18 years and I do all of my own work on them because I love it as a hobby. I track the E34 M5 and tracked the previous 535i and 535iT that I made (it was always fun getting the looks in an older wagon that could lift the inside wheels on turns). I knew this motor was done when I heard the knocking.

We enjoyed Prague to the maximum on Sunday because we knew there would be no developments on the M2C as both BMW in Europe and BMW in NA were closed. On Monday, as I stated, I got back to the task of trying to figure out what needed to be done with the car.....which took me away from my wife and our European holiday.

We were to leave Prague early Tuesday morning for the long trip to Rhineland...with a stop in Nuremburg along the way. The plan was to enjoy Rhineland for the remainder of Tuesday and Wednesday morning while having break-in service done at a dealer near Bonn. TF at the Nordschleife Wednesday evening was going to be ultimate way to end this trip. The Nurburgring, in my own car, that just got done doing 1200-1500 miles in Europe, no kids. This is the section of the trip, along with a lot of my time while in Prague, that I did not get to have......and I want a do-over. This was bucket list stuff for me that I did not get to execute on.

The problem with a do-over is that we cannot line the logistics up again. It's not fair to ask our parents to watch the kids again so we would take the kids with; we have three and they would not fit in an M2C with proper seat belts, etc. We'd have to take them out of school in order to finish this and I'm not going to do that. We could wait until next summer but that would be 16+ months from the time I put a deposit on the M2C (march 2019).

Sorry for the rant but you hit on the biggest lament for me.........completing the experience we had laid out for ourselves. It was the right time, place, and thing to do for everyone....and it fell apart.

[Cannondale900]

Originally Posted by dmboone25

So this sounds really similar to what I was hearing on my F80 - I started a thread on that earlier this week and the shop foreman said my S55 might be “toast”. My engine has ~25,000 miles and had never had a hiccup, and has never been modded in any way.

I had the same exact fact pattern - I described the noise as “ticking” but it was definitely prominent. Got louder under load/higher RPMs. I’m traveling for work and haven’t heard much although I know the regional field engineer examined my car on Friday. I’m supposed to get an update tomorrow.

I updated the initial post with a YouTube video. Does yours sound the same?

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by Cannondale900

I updated the initial post with a YouTube video. Does yours sound the same?

Actually, it doesn't sound the same to me - mine was much more ticking or tapping and higher pitched in nature. Now I understand why you described it on the "knocking" side...I wish I had taken a video of it so you could tell me what you think.

The noise on my S55 was also coming from closer to the airbox area of the engine - I think it was physically lower than that (towards the ground) but more north (towards the windshield) compared to the sounds coming out of your S55.

Interestingly enough, now Bill Jacobs is saying that a lifter was "stuck" and that was causing the noise I was hearing. They're now saying that the lifter and an additional component (I am trying to find out what that is, they didn't say) are all that need to be replaced, not the whole engine. They have gone from DEFCON 1 back down to 5 pretty quickly....

When I asked about the initial diagnosis, where they said there was metal/shavings in the oil, they are now saying that was "misdiagnosed" - I am hoping to have a candid conversation with the shop foreman today, but that's all I know at the moment. It is really hard being physically far away from all that's going on - if i were home, I would just go over there and bother people until I had every single question answered.

[chmura]

Originally Posted by Cannondale900

I get that this is totally a first world problem and I'm risking sounding like a whiner here but this was my only real vacation this year and I had built it up to be a magnificent experience for myself and my wife. The car was for me, and the trip was for my wife's 40th birthday. It was combining the best of what we both like in autos and travel......and it was our first trip without the kids in over three years. We both needed and deserved a break from our schedules and the kids' schedules. We're fortunate enough to have capable grandparents near us who could rotate watching kids so we lined it all up.

My situation prior to going on my European Delivery last year was identical to yours. I had my parents watch my two young kids (very very hard for them to do this, since my mom had to take some days off work for my wife and I to be able to go on vacation to watch the kids). My wife and I had not had a vacation without kids for 4 years so my European Delivery trip last year was a much needed gettaway for us!

Any update from BMW? Where is the car now?

[Cannondale900]

Originally Posted by chmura

My situation prior to going on my European Delivery last year was identical to yours. I had my parents watch my two young kids (very very hard for them to do this, since my mom had to take some days off work for my wife and I to be able to go on vacation to watch the kids). My wife and I had not had a vacation without kids for 4 years so my European Delivery trip last year was a much needed gettaway for us!

Any update from BMW? Where is the car now?

No update from BMW although my local dealer/CA has been very empathetic and is indicating they will do everything they can to make things right. I'm refraining from posting details of my various interactions, from Saturday through now, until I hear officially from BMWNA or my dealer.

Car is still at CarTec BMW in Prague and I'm back at work.

[medphysdave]

Maybe you could think of it like this. It sounds like you and the wife had a pretty fantastic time until the car issues. I'm jealous. It could be a good opportunity to bring the kids and include them in, a different, but uniquely awesome experience. There are adult things you won't get to do, but the memories of having the whole family in these places will travel with you forever.

In April we took our 11yo and 6mo to Paris for a week. It was amazing. Id say that's it's not necessarily better without the kids, just different.

[chmura]

Originally Posted by Cannondale900

No update from BMW although my local dealer/CA has been very empathetic and is indicating they will do everything they can to make things right. I'm refraining from posting details of my various interactions, from Saturday through now, until I hear officially from BMWNA or my dealer.

Car is still at CarTec BMW in Prague and I'm back at work.

Have you contacted BMW N.A. European Delivery Department or BMW N.A. with your issue?

I just watched your video. Wow that is a major knocking sound! I would of been furious this happened to me on a new car.

[Cannondale900]

Originally Posted by chmura

Man I feel you. I hope for all the best from here on out with the situation.

Please give us details on how you sorted everything on your own once you gather your thoughts.

Good luck.

OK so here are some of the details after I've gathered a bit more information after speaking with BMW NA Euro Delivery team this morning. I need to type this up to share with BMW NA Euro Delivery/Specialty Sales team anyway. There is going to be some information in here that might help others if they end up in a similar situation (I hope not though). Let me state that, after a call with BMW NA, it appears the crux of the issue was that my calls on Saturday night to European roadside assistance were not handled properly. If they were, a case would have been opened with Allianz. I would have received a tow, a BMW hire car, and could have rested easily and continued on with the rest of our trip. Here is what happened.

On Aug 31 at approx 6:45pm local time, while decelerating to match speed limit in Milicin, Czech Republic, I hear slight tapping. Not really a discrete sound....assumed road noise and continued on.

On Aug 31 at approx 7:07pm local time, while decelerating to match speed limit in Bystrice, Czech Republic, tapping is more distinct so we pull over at the Benzina on the north end of town to investigate. I made three calls to +0049-89-208-01-8723 which was the 24 hour road side assistance number provided if you are outside Germany. The first two calls we were on hold and I did not stay on the line very long. The third call we held on for 31 minutes with no answer. Called BMW US roadside assistance just on the off chance it could be something simple we could diagnose on the spot. They were trying to be helpful but obviously could not communicate with the car due to our location (and maybe also communication protocols differ across regions?). Ultimately I communicated to BMW US roadside assistance that I was nervous about our lack of ability to reach someone with Europe roadside assistance and that we didn't feel comfortable setting up shop where we were. He stated that if there are no check engine lights, systems errors, and engine oil level is good - that we can continue on. I was worried about doing more damage to other things by continuing but we also were not getting through to Europe roadside assistance either so we continued in to Prague.

On Aug 31 at approx 8:36pm local time I phone my US dealer to let them know of the issues I was having. I'm assuming they started working their channels.

On Aug 31 at approx 9:29pm local time at our accommodations in Prague 1, I called +0049-89-208-01-8723 again. This call was on hold for 60 minutes with no answer. I could not leave the car parked where we were and I did not want to move the car to the underground parking I had pre-paid for in case a tow truck eventually came. We found what we thought was a local BMW dealer approx 1.4mls from out accommodations and drove the car there.

On Aug 31 at approx 11:00pm local time we arrived at Renocar in Prague 4. It turns out this was not a dealership but simply a showroom for a dealer located further outside of town. There was nowhere to leave the car.

On Aug 31 at approx 11:12pm local time I called +0049-89-208-01-8723 again. This call was answered immediately by a well spoken man. We informed the man of our troubles and that we needed a tow to the nearest dealer and further instructions. I wish I took the man's name but I did not. This man told us that he was simple the night watch and he could not help us. We needed to find our own tow, pay for it, and ask for reimbursement later. I explained that this was not the service we were supposed to receive as European Delivery customers but he did not know what to do. At this point I used the NAV system to locate the nearest BMW Service Center which was CarTec 3.4mls across town in Prague 10.

On Aug 31 at approx 11:45pm local time we arrived at CarTec. The security at CarTec did not want to let me in but I had him listen to the car and he immediately opened the gate to the lot behind the dealer. I left my information with the lot manager who spoke broken English and I promised to return at 7am Monday morning when the dealership opened. I called my US dealer to inform them that I left the car at CarTec in Prague. Took forever to find an uber back to our apartment in Prague 1. Arrive at nearest bar, grab pitcher of beer, pound pitcher of beer, pass out on Sept 1 at 1am local time.

On Sept 1, a Sunday and feeling free of car issues, we commence with maximum enjoyment of Prague!!!

On Sept 2 at approx 7:09am local time, arrive at CarTec BMW in Prague after taking #22 tram. Call +49-89-125-01-6001 general line for the Welt in an attempt to get a hold of someone in the Euro Delivery space. I am told that they do not arrive until 9:00am and that I have to wait. They took my production number to forward on to the "relevant department".

On Sept 2 at approx 7:10am local time find extremely helpful service adviser at CarTec BMW in Prague. Spend some time explaining European Delivery. SA started car while I took video that you see above. Car is put on lift for visual inspection and all looks fine. SA and tech comment that last time an S55 sounded like this it resulted in motor replacement.

On Sept 2 at approx 7:42am local time contact +0049-89-208-01-8723. Someone picks up and I give details of what has transpired up until this point in time. They asked if I needed a tow to a BMW dealer and I reminded them that I just got done explaining that the car was already at a dealer, no thanks to anyone! This person stated they saw a case opened for my vehicle.

On Sept 2 at approx 9:09am local time call +49-89-125-01-6020 in an attempt to get a hold of anyone else at the Welt. I am told again that they are in meetings working on my issue. Wait at dealer until 10:30am local time and make one more attempt to call +49-89-125-01-6020 and met with same response.

Annoyed, I head back in to town to try to spend the rest of the day with my wife who was impatiently awaiting my arrival. I placed additional phone calls to Munich throughout the day in an attempt to get a hold of someone that could provide information....no luck.

I called BMW NA Euro Delivery/Specialty Sales hoping someone was in on labor day.....no luck.

On Sept 2 at approx 3:51pm local time I received a call from +49-89-3820 where a lady frantically asked me for details regarding the rest of my itinerary and what had transpired. This lady has approx 8 minutes to summarize and forward on to another contact. This lady stated I would receive a call within the next hour. I never received such a call.

On Sept 2 at approx 7:00pm local time I receive a text from my CA at US dealership stating I will be reimbursed for whatever costs I incur to make travel arrangements due to vehicle malfunction. CA confirms to leave the car at CarTec and take second key and registration documentation with me. They will handle the vehicle issues.

Later that night attempt to make car rental from Sixt/EuropeCar/Enterprise with no success. The goal was to continue the trip despite the fact it may not be in a BMW. I was planning on renting the M2 from Apex Nurburg for two laps at a cost of ~$550. Wife calls United Airlines to see if we can arrange for flight home out of Prague. After $700 change fee, this was the only thing that went smoothly in the last 48 hours so she successfully changed our flight and we left Prague the morning of Sept 3.

On Sept 3 at approx 2:28 ET in Newark, while in passport control line, receive call from +49-89-208-01-6500......first potentially meaningful call from Munich and I can't answer because no phones in US Customs!!!!! ARGH!!!!! Same number called back at approx 2:57 ET while still in Newark. Name appears to be Heidi Pham. Heidi wants to help arrange for hire car for us out of Prague to continue our trip. I inform Heidi that I have just landed in the US and our trip is over.....Heidi is extremely empathetic. Heidi asks me why I didn't call sooner at which point I explained to Heidi everything that has happened. Heidi suspects I was given a Euro Delivery folder with out of date contact numbers. I confirm the number and this is not the case. Heidi explains that my calls on Saturday night should have gone to her or her colleagues and they would have immediately began arranging for alternate transportation..........there was a major malfunction in this process apparently.

I pound two beers at airport, while waiting for connector to Chicago, with mixed feeling of relief and disappointment. Relief that my wife and I are not nuts, and disappointment that all of the stress and frustration could have been avoided if Saturday night went the way it was supposed to when we called the 24 hour European Roadside Assistance number. We could have gone on to Rhineland and I would have had some ring time, albeit not in my own car.

There were many many other smaller phone calls, that I made, between all of the highlights above. All of the calls (only two) that I personally received regarding this situation are detailed above. I spent more time in a 72 hour window managing this issue than I have on maintenance of my three current BMWs over a five year period. It was exhausting and fruitless.

Now all of the appropriate parties are connected (BMW NA, BMW Munich, Allianz, and my local dealer) in an attempt to diagnose the issue with the car and propose a path forward.

[KevinM]

Man, what a nightmare. Sorry you had to go through this.

[chmura]

Originally Posted by Cannondale900

OK so here are some of the details after I've gathered a bit more information after speaking with BMW NA Euro Delivery team this morning. I need to type this up to share with BMW NA Euro Delivery/Specialty Sales team anyway. There is going to be some information in here that might help others if they end up in a similar situation (I hope not though). Let me state that, after a call with BMW NA, it appears the crux of the issue was that my calls on Saturday night to European roadside assistance were not handled properly. If they were, a case would have been opened with Allianz. I would have received a tow, a BMW hire car, and could have rested easily and continued on with the rest of our trip. Here is what happened.

Wow, that must of been very frustrating not being able to reach the correct people for so long and ultimately getting so annoyed that your trip ended prematurely.

I just now looked at my October 2018 European Delivery Documents and there is a 'BMW Roadside Assistance Service' sheet with 24 hour hotline in case of emergency.

I attached it. Did you get something similar?

[Cannondale900]

Yes

[chmura]

Originally Posted by Cannondale900

Yes

That means you were definitely given old contact numbers when taking delivery of your car.

Please keep us updated on how BMW handles this issue making you whole again and repairing or replacing your car.

[Cannondale900]

Originally Posted by chmura

That means you were definitely given old contact numbers when taking delivery of your car.

Please keep us updated on how BMW handles this issue making you whole again and repairing or replacing your car.

I was given what was in my photo......which I thought I had confirmed to be the correct numbers. BMW switched from HDI back to Allianz.

[Cannondale900]

Originally Posted by medphysdave

Maybe you could think of it like this. It sounds like you and the wife had a pretty fantastic time until the car issues. I'm jealous. It could be a good opportunity to bring the kids and include them in, a different, but uniquely awesome experience. There are adult things you won't get to do, but the memories of having the whole family in these places will travel with you forever.

In April we took our 11yo and 6mo to Paris for a week. It was amazing. Id say that's it's not necessarily better without the kids, just different.

My wife and I have certainly considered this as an option. We could choose a different route like Spain, France, Netherlands, etc. Unfortunately the M2C does not accommodate all of us safely, and we would have to wait until school is over and early summer sports league wrap up. That puts us in to the last week of July/first week of Aug 2020. Our kids travel well and trips with them are enjoyable. I certainly would want them to have the experience.

[Vintage]

Cannondale900 - I am truly sorry. My wife and I know better than most how you must feel as we had a similar experience with ED in 2009 with our Z4 35i. It all worked out in the end, after a long saga, with a new car. However, that new car was not what we drove in Europe and it left a bit of a bad taste in our mouths.

Regardless, I would go back in a heartbeat. As you said, it was the time of our lives right up until it was not.

[chmura]

Have you contacted the dealership in Prague to the status of your M2c?

Wonder if they will tow it to the Welt so they can properly fix it. Not sure the Welt does this kind of work. Or it still stay in CZ?

I think the time is ticking since there is time limit the car can be in Germany before the owner has to pay European taxes on the car.

[heli_ben]

My M2C (which was replaced with a new car) did this.

It was a crank journal bearing failure at 2000 miles.

My new car has done 3500 miles now with no issues.

[Cannondale900]

Originally Posted by chmura

Have you contacted the dealership in Prague to the status of your M2c?

Wonder if they will tow it to the Welt so they can properly fix it. Not sure the Welt does this kind of work. Or it still stay in CZ?

I think the time is ticking since there is time limit the car can be in Germany before the owner has to pay European taxes on the car.

Car is still in dealer lot in CZ per my contact there. The dealer has been contacted and they are expecting someone to retrieve the car soon. I believe diagnosis will take place per Allianz instruction. There will be a determination as to whether the repairs should be performed in Germany (not very typical), or the car is worthy of safe shipment and repairs will be performed in the US once it arrives (most common outcome). I believe it spun a rod bearing so I've stated that I believe the car is not safe for sea travel as moving it requires the motor to be running and at any time a rod could get thrown through the block causing flammable liquids to spill. I may be totally wrong in my diagnosis.

It is at that point I expect to have a discussion about whether or not a repaired car is something I am willing to accept.

Although value added tax is not squarely in my wheelhouse of tax expertise, I am familiar enough with the concepts. BMW has likely provided documentation of intention to export the vehicle within 90 days which gets them out of having to collect German VAT from me at the point of delivery. I would assume they provide the same documentation that is used for all cars heading to the US. Since this is a US spec car, that proof is pretty indisputable. Since I will not be registering or permanently using the vehicle in another EU country, nor am I an EU resident, I am not at risk of being subject to VAT. If I were to register the vehicle in an EU country I would likely have to provide proof that I paid the appropriate VAT in order to complete the registration process. I may be off slightly in my assessment of VAT risk but it's probably close enough. Tax is my profession (no jokes please).

[Poochie]

F that, push for a brand new vehicle!

If you convey your grievances and the ordeal you've experienced as well you did here to any reasonable person with any kind of pull, I'm pretty sure they'll just replace the vehicle, on sheer principle and to avoid any blowbacks with the repair.

Just dig into your inner brat and keep moving up the food chain until they agree to yield to your demands